The Explosive Child

[Suzan]

I have a question for those who have read The Explosive Child. I am not done yet so maybe I will still get this figured out.

 

I do have to say I love the book. It was so nice to see in writing my child on the page and to read about other parents getting as upset as I get and hearing confirmation that the "regular" parenting skills don't work. I've known that for a long time about dd8. It has helped validate that the things that I have been doing just to cope are actually better for my dd (trying to reduce what makes her melt down and trying to anticipate it to avoid it) and I am learning the correct skills to hopefully make this more successful so we can all improve. I see the need for me to work on my own frustration skills so I can deal with her. But this leads me to my question.

 

This morning she was doing well but I could see her starting to get upset about her clothes. She decided she would be cold so we looked for a long sleeved shirt to put under her shirt. She got that on, looked great, acted like she was good with it all so we kept getting ready to go. Then right before we were to get in the car, she looked at herself in the mirror and flipped out on the spot because the neckline of her shirt went up higher than she wanted (cry, whine, huffing, puffing, stiff body, stomping....). This higher collar is not something that would normally bother her so I don't know how I could have anticipated it. I immediately jumped from calm to about to freak myself because of her reaction and because it was a problem I was not going to be able to "fix" in 1 minute.. I suggested she take the shirt off and she went nuts. She wanted me to find another shirt that was not up as high on her neck. I know we don't have one in the right school uniform color (maybe not in any color) and we have to be in the car right then to get to the school bus on time. This set the stage for her OCD to really set in that the car was too small, her book bag too unorganized, it was sprinkling rain and all causing her so much distress.

 

I spent my time trying to stay calm, which makes her think I'm mad because I'm not talking and breathing slow when inside I'm about to blow. So this starts her in on her "are you mad?" scenario which makes things worse.

 

So, in trying to figure out The Explosive Child and the baskets and stuff, where does this fit in? What do I do if I can't anticipate it? Or if it's something that I put in Basket C but she still think's it's important. Is this something they would hope will get better after we practice everything else? I know I need to finish the book, there may be more answers in there for me. I do feel like we are already reducing a lot of frustrations but need to get better at it, but it's these out of the blue type situations that I feel like I can't anticipate or can't control because they are important to her and she won't let go of them and I feel so beaten on and can't fix it that there's no way out.

 

Thanks for any thoughts you may have.

 

Susan

[dcmom]

Susan-

 

I haven't read the book- looks like something I should get.

 

However my younger dd had MAJOR clothing and morning issues with pandas episodes. We tried to avoid issues by: laying out clothing and packing backpack the night before. That really helped. I, at some point, let go of my "you have to be there on time" issue. If she was having ocd issues, and it didn't look like they were wrapping up to get there in time, I would just tell her that she'd either have to deal with it, or be late (it didn't matter to me- and I didn't make it a success or failure- or stressor). Sometimes she would just deal and go on time, others she would arrive at school 1/2 hour late. In the end I would praise her for getting through it. She was late often during her episodes, but when not in an episode is only late maybe once every three weeks or month.

 

The hardest step for me, was to let go of the fact that if she was 1/2 hour late, it really mattered. Once I let go of that, my stress level was much better, which helped her stay calmer.

 

Good luck!

[reactive]

I have a question for those who have read The Explosive Child. I am not done yet so maybe I will still get this figured out.

 

I do have to say I love the book. It was so nice to see in writing my child on the page and to read about other parents getting as upset as I get and hearing confirmation that the "regular" parenting skills don't work. I've known that for a long time about dd8. It has helped validate that the things that I have been doing just to cope are actually better for my dd (trying to reduce what makes her melt down and trying to anticipate it to avoid it) and I am learning the correct skills to hopefully make this more successful so we can all improve. I see the need for me to work on my own frustration skills so I can deal with her. But this leads me to my question.

 

This morning she was doing well but I could see her starting to get upset about her clothes. She decided she would be cold so we looked for a long sleeved shirt to put under her shirt. She got that on, looked great, acted like she was good with it all so we kept getting ready to go. Then right before we were to get in the car, she looked at herself in the mirror and flipped out on the spot because the neckline of her shirt went up higher than she wanted (cry, whine, huffing, puffing, stiff body, stomping....). This higher collar is not something that would normally bother her so I don't know how I could have anticipated it. I immediately jumped from calm to about to freak myself because of her reaction and because it was a problem I was not going to be able to "fix" in 1 minute.. I suggested she take the shirt off and she went nuts. She wanted me to find another shirt that was not up as high on her neck. I know we don't have one in the right school uniform color (maybe not in any color) and we have to be in the car right then to get to the school bus on time. This set the stage for her OCD to really set in that the car was too small, her book bag too unorganized, it was sprinkling rain and all causing her so much distress.

 

I spent my time trying to stay calm, which makes her think I'm mad because I'm not talking and breathing slow when inside I'm about to blow. So this starts her in on her "are you mad?" scenario which makes things worse.

 

So, in trying to figure out The Explosive Child and the baskets and stuff, where does this fit in? What do I do if I can't anticipate it? Or if it's something that I put in Basket C but she still think's it's important. Is this something they would hope will get better after we practice everything else? I know I need to finish the book, there may be more answers in there for me. I do feel like we are already reducing a lot of frustrations but need to get better at it, but it's these out of the blue type situations that I feel like I can't anticipate or can't control because they are important to her and she won't let go of them and I feel so beaten on and can't fix it that there's no way out.

 

Thanks for any thoughts you may have.

 

Susan

This winter, a really good friend of mine told me a story about her dd. The family was getting ready for church. Their dd did not want to wear a coat, even though it was freezing outside. She did not think the coat would look right. They needed to leave. They told her to get the coat on. It turned into a fight, and their dd had a meltdown (she is 12), ran upstairs and screamed at all of them "you are ruining my life!'

 

This daughter of theirs has no issues with OCD at all. They were very late to church, of course. But two issues come to mind: kids like ours with issues can have a harder time than their peers without issues, and second, some issues can be normal behavior and it can be hard to tell what really is OCD or just being normal...I mean, it does sound like your dd was having an OCD moment, but it also sounds like it was started by normal girl stuff...wanting to look good and getting upset and moody

 

Can I just say, I am glad I have two boys!!! I am sure I will feel different when they want to start driving....

[Suzan]

However my younger dd had MAJOR clothing and morning issues with pandas episodes. We tried to avoid issues by: laying out clothing and packing backpack the night before. That really helped.

 

The hardest step for me, was to let go of the fact that if she was 1/2 hour late, it really mattered. Once I let go of that, my stress level was much better, which helped her stay calmer.

 

Oh I wish we could be late! This is a good reminder for me though to look at what my issues are, things that I think are important to me when really they aren't. I like to suggest to my dd that she gets dressed in the evening so she's already dressed and used to her clothes in the am. This works well but recently if she agrees to this, she ends up changing her mind and changing her clothes again anyway.

 

I do recommend the book. If anything, it helps to get a new perspective and maybe new tolerance on your child's behavior.

 

Susan

[Suzan]

This winter, a really good friend of mine told me a story about her dd. The family was getting ready for church. Their dd did not want to wear a coat, even though it was freezing outside. She did not think the coat would look right. They needed to leave. They told her to get the coat on. It turned into a fight, and their dd had a meltdown (she is 12), ran upstairs and screamed at all of them "you are ruining my life!'

 

This daughter of theirs has no issues with OCD at all. They were very late to church, of course. But two issues come to mind: kids like ours with issues can have a harder time than their peers without issues, and second, some issues can be normal behavior and it can be hard to tell what really is OCD or just being normal...I mean, it does sound like your dd was having an OCD moment, but it also sounds like it was started by normal girl stuff...wanting to look good and getting upset and moody

 

Can I just say, I am glad I have two boys!!! I am sure I will feel different when they want to start driving....

 

LOL, something similar happened to us once but I let my dd go without a coat and hardly any clothes on (we weren't going to church though thank goodness). She got outside and froze and after that she learned to always wear her coat! That was dd7 though, she learns faster.

 

dd8 knows she doesn't want to go out in the cold but everything has to be just right and I think she thinks it's usually my fault if it's not.

[nomoz]

I haven't read the book, but, boy, do I live what you are saying! My daughter, 7, has alot of morning issues - esp. with clothing, ie. socks being "glumpy" - and shoes - she has worn the same pair of crocs just about all year. And we are often late to school. Her dad's been taking her (thank God - she is a bit better for him) but if he gets stressed that he'll be late for work, that sets the ball in motion! This morning I had to take my daughter - and she didn't even make it there. We were running late, and I took her for a ride beforehand to calm her. But when we arrived at the school, she had a major meltdown. I thought about my options, even thought about getting someone from the school to take her in. But, when your child is in the fetal position screaming that they will die if they go to school, what do you do? So, I turned around and came home. Second grade isn't as important as my child's health. BUT, at the same time, we want to teach our children coping skills - something they will certainly need later on in life. (Add to it you don't know when they are testing our parenting weaknesses!)

These kids really have a rough time with any onset of stress or deviation from routine.

We also often try to tiptoe around certain situations, anticipating in advance what may be a trigger. But sometimes you just don't know what's going to set her off.

Good news is, after she came home and rested, she had a relatively good day... Wouldn't it be nice if they could just say "I'm really really tired, Mom. Can I just stay home?"

I feel for you, and I may just get that book! Good luck!!

Noelle

[dcmom]

I do want to add one thing here. We had/have major morning problems when my dd is in an episode.

 

When she is healthy, we really don't.

 

While I agree you should address this psychologically at the time- you definately want to look into the medical cause behind this. Now, whenever we have a bad morning, I am pretty much gauranteed that someone in the class has strep.

[jayjay]

I have a question for those who have read The Explosive Child. I am not done yet so maybe I will still get this figured out.

 

I do have to say I love the book. It was so nice to see in writing my child on the page and to read about other parents getting as upset as I get and hearing confirmation that the "regular" parenting skills don't work. I've known that for a long time about dd8. It has helped validate that the things that I have been doing just to cope are actually better for my dd (trying to reduce what makes her melt down and trying to anticipate it to avoid it) and I am learning the correct skills to hopefully make this more successful so we can all improve. I see the need for me to work on my own frustration skills so I can deal with her. But this leads me to my question.

 

This morning she was doing well but I could see her starting to get upset about her clothes. She decided she would be cold so we looked for a long sleeved shirt to put under her shirt. She got that on, looked great, acted like she was good with it all so we kept getting ready to go. Then right before we were to get in the car, she looked at herself in the mirror and flipped out on the spot because the neckline of her shirt went up higher than she wanted (cry, whine, huffing, puffing, stiff body, stomping....). This higher collar is not something that would normally bother her so I don't know how I could have anticipated it. I immediately jumped from calm to about to freak myself because of her reaction and because it was a problem I was not going to be able to "fix" in 1 minute.. I suggested she take the shirt off and she went nuts. She wanted me to find another shirt that was not up as high on her neck. I know we don't have one in the right school uniform color (maybe not in any color) and we have to be in the car right then to get to the school bus on time. This set the stage for her OCD to really set in that the car was too small, her book bag too unorganized, it was sprinkling rain and all causing her so much distress.

 

I spent my time trying to stay calm, which makes her think I'm mad because I'm not talking and breathing slow when inside I'm about to blow. So this starts her in on her "are you mad?" scenario which makes things worse.

 

So, in trying to figure out The Explosive Child and the baskets and stuff, where does this fit in? What do I do if I can't anticipate it? Or if it's something that I put in Basket C but she still think's it's important. Is this something they would hope will get better after we practice everything else? I know I need to finish the book, there may be more answers in there for me. I do feel like we are already reducing a lot of frustrations but need to get better at it, but it's these out of the blue type situations that I feel like I can't anticipate or can't control because they are important to her and she won't let go of them and I feel so beaten on and can't fix it that there's no way out.

 

Thanks for any thoughts you may have.

 

Susan

I read the book before my son was diagnosed with PANDAS. I was convinced that he was an “explosive child.” We went to a therapist weekly who was trying to help us use the plans. For weeks my homework was to find what triggered his explosions. Each week I would return and tell him that there was no specific trigger to any of these episodes. And every week the therapist would look at me and shake his head back and forth with a “ there is a trigger, you are just not seeing it” look in his eyes. Guess he couldn’t tell that I spent 24/7 trying. During this time we saw another Dr. and she suspected my son might have PANDAS. I told this to the therapist the next time we saw him and he said to me, “No wonder it wasn’t working, this method probably would not work well on a child with OCD” Like dcmom said, I think the “explosive child” is an excellent method to use on a healthy child. I think it is an excellent way to handle disagreements in general, but trying to use it with a child in an exacerbation just added to our frustration.

 

PS: we live in CT and my son has worn shorts every day this winter. He actually built a snowman while wearing shorts! I've learned to pick my battles...clothing is not one of them.

[Suzan]

I do want to add one thing here. We had/have major morning problems when my dd is in an episode.

 

When she is healthy, we really don't.

 

While I agree you should address this psychologically at the time- you definately want to look into the medical cause behind this. Now, whenever we have a bad morning, I am pretty much gauranteed that someone in the class has strep.

 

I totally agree. I am hoping to gain skills so we can cope but we are still in the midst of trying to get her healthy. Until that happens, I don't believe we will be able to make any of it go away. Maybe just handle it better. She had a rough one this morning. Had to change her clothes 4 times but she finally got something that worked for her. But she was bossy and emotional and difficult. Not as bad as yesterday though, thank goodness. There IS strep in her school right now.

 

Susan

[dcmom]

Suzan, We totally get this kind of thing when there is strep in the class. Last week I actually kept her home the entire week because 5 kids in her class had strep. It was the best decision- she was happy and healthy all week, and we did the school work at home. She went back today, and I am crossing my fingers that most of the strep has run it's course. This is my plan for the future, for both girls, until they are less reactive. I understand that it is not always feasible to do this, though. If she is reacting to strep, and you can't keep her home- I would try for some accomodations until it passes: no homework, and arriving at school late. Tamar Chansky talks about these accomodations specifically for pandas in one of her books (if you need something to back you up with the school). I think during exposure, the less stress, and the more r&r, the best.

Good luck- it is so hard!

[Suzan]

I read the book before my son was diagnosed with PANDAS. I was convinced that he was an “explosive child.” We went to a therapist weekly who was trying to help us use the plans. For weeks my homework was to find what triggered his explosions. Each week I would return and tell him that there was no specific trigger to any of these episodes. And every week the therapist would look at me and shake his head back and forth with a “ there is a trigger, you are just not seeing it” look in his eyes. Guess he couldn’t tell that I spent 24/7 trying. During this time we saw another Dr. and she suspected my son might have PANDAS. I told this to the therapist the next time we saw him and he said to me, “No wonder it wasn’t working, this method probably would not work well on a child with OCD” Like dcmom said, I think the “explosive child” is an excellent method to use on a healthy child. I think it is an excellent way to handle disagreements in general, but trying to use it with a child in an exacerbation just added to our frustration.

 

PS: we live in CT and my son has worn shorts every day this winter. He actually built a snowman while wearing shorts! I've learned to pick my battles...clothing is not one of them.

 

I totally agree with clothes not being one of my battles but it is one of HERS and then she wants me to fix the unfixable. I am hoping the book will give us some format to try to stay alive until we get her cured. Maybe it won't work. If so, I may just have to run away.

 

Susan

[Suzan]

Suzan, We totally get this kind of thing when there is strep in the class. Last week I actually kept her home the entire week because 5 kids in her class had strep. It was the best decision- she was happy and healthy all week, and we did the school work at home. She went back today, and I am crossing my fingers that most of the strep has run it's course. This is my plan for the future, for both girls, until they are less reactive. I understand that it is not always feasible to do this, though. If she is reacting to strep, and you can't keep her home- I would try for some accomodations until it passes: no homework, and arriving at school late. Tamar Chansky talks about these accomodations specifically for pandas in one of her books (if you need something to back you up with the school). I think during exposure, the less stress, and the more r&r, the best.

Good luck- it is so hard!

 

Thanks. At times like this I wish I was not single. She can't go in late and I can't keep her home since I have to be at work and there is no one to help me. I will try to think of more accomodations though that may help. Like maybe they will let her wear regular clothes instead of her uniform. But she already has a modified uniform (no collars and stretchy soft pants). I don't know why she's trying to wear other stuff this week. Probably the strep again, making her nutty.

 

Susan

[Megs_Mom]

Hi Suzan - I think that The Explosive Child is a great book, and a wonderful resourse full of tools that are effective. But it is not a book about OCD. OCD is different in many ways. I personally think that "The Explosive Child" should be read as a compliment to the many terrific books about Childhood OCD, that will help you to understand the tools that help a child with OCD - and to teach those tools to the child, slowly, over time. The thing is, is that OCD is not logical. You can help to avoid many triggers during an episode, but certainly not all. And accomodation often causes OCD to build - and often you are accomodating something that the child does not really want - but that OCD wants them to do. Sometimes, before we understood OCD, we would trigger a rage in our child because she did NOT really want what she was saying. That was the OCD - and she was driven to rage by the fact that no one understood or could help her get what she really wanted.

 

Here is the link to some OCD specific books. http://www.latitudes.org/forums/index.php?...amp;#entry52242 Personally, we used an ERP therapist to help us understand the tools to help rituals that "were in her head". We could help with physical rituals fairly easily on our own, but the internal ones were very challenging. But having a shared language to discuss what is happening - even if we talk afterwards, is also worth the time and reading - and teaching.

 

Suz, you are doing so great for those girls - don't beat yourself up about this. I can't imaging doing this with more than one child, as so many here do, and especially as a single mom!!! Give yourself some Starbucks today!

[kimballot]

HI - I've not read the book, but you've just convinced me to put it on my list! I always do the "aftertalk" with my son. Now that it is all over, when we are calm and not stressed say -"I'd like to talk about what happened this morning so we can figure out what the problem was and how to avoid it next time." I ask him for ideas of why it happened, then try to fit it into my perspective and restate it objectively - something like "Ok, so the shirt was higher than you liked and you felt like you were choking" (for example). How can we avoid this in the future (ex:get dressed earlier so we know if something isn't going to feel right that day), and what can we do to "turn it around" when it starts. I also apologize for losing my patience which happens often when we are rushed.

 

Is your daughter having sensory issues around clothing? If so, try talking to an OT at her school (if it is a public school) or reading "the out of sync child" - it describes sensory defensiveness nicely and gives some nice ideas, though it is written for younger children. The ideas still apply. Lots of kids learn to "turn it around" by doing something to give tactile deep pressure or joint compression.

[Suzan]

That was the OCD - and she was driven to rage by the fact that no one understood or could help her get what she really wanted.

 

Thank's Susan.... That sounds just like what I think she is feeling, that we don't understand what she is going through......we did get the kids OCD handbook and started that last night. She really is enjoying it. This morning she asked why were were doing it since she didn't have OCD. So at least we are opening a dialog about it. I have not called any of those therapists you sent me yet. Babysteps I guess. I'll check out the link to the other books too.

 

Susan