Nystatin for yeast is this a problem for pandas?

[anonymous0121]

My sons tics and rages have been severe for 9 months now. Doc is recommending nystatin for, but we haven't done this before because another pandas doc told me nystatin was derived from strp, anyone know about this?

Diflucan use to do wonders immediately for him but now is making rages worse

[LNN]

I found this post from an autism forum that may help:

 

"Nystatin is not derived from strep strain. It is derived from streptomycete called streptomyces noursei which is a fungus itself. The strep strain that everybody is worried about is Streptococcus which is bacterial in origin. People see the strep part in the name and assume that nystatin is derived from streptococcus which is not true." http://www.autismweb.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=26979

 

If you're seeing rages from diflucan, it could be from die off of a systemic yeast infection or it could be for some other reason. My son did diflucan in Sept-Oct and while it helped with some symptoms (stopped his OCD within days), it increased his tics. We never seemed to get past "herxing" symptoms. So we switched to nystatin in Nov and that does seem gentler. Tics have reduced but not gone away. I'm now thinking he has leaky gut - that yeast may be under control, but toxins from normal digestion and diet are seeping into his system due to inflammed/damaged gut lining. Gluten-free or even gluten-reduced diet proved too much for us. We just coudn't do it. So I'm now searching for less ideal options to heal the gut. Using glutamine and will probably try digestive enzymes this week.

 

If I were you, I'd give the nystatin a try. It's been a better fit for my DS and it's less harsh on the liver.

[anonymous0121]

I found this post from an autism forum that may help:

 

"Nystatin is not derived from strep strain. It is derived from streptomycete called streptomyces noursei which is a fungus itself. The strep strain that everybody is worried about is Streptococcus which is bacterial in origin. People see the strep part in the name and assume that nystatin is derived from streptococcus which is not true." http://www.autismweb.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=26979

 

If you're seeing rages from diflucan, it could be from die off of a systemic yeast infection or it could be for some other reason. My son did diflucan in Sept-Oct and while it helped with some symptoms (stopped his OCD within days), it increased his tics. We never seemed to get past "herxing" symptoms. So we switched to nystatin in Nov and that does seem gentler. Tics have reduced but not gone away. I'm now thinking he has leaky gut - that yeast may be under control, but toxins from normal digestion and diet are seeping into his system due to inflammed/damaged gut lining. Gluten-free or even gluten-reduced diet proved too much for us. We just coudn't do it. So I'm now searching for less ideal options to heal the gut. Using glutamine and will probably try digestive enzymes this week.

 

If I were you, I'd give the nystatin a try. It's been a better fit for my DS and it's less harsh on the liver.

thank you so much for the info, my PANDAS doc recommended against it cause he said it was derived from strep. my son is severely sensitive to yeast/mold/fungus, wondering if that is going to be a problem? he is psychotic raging to almost all meds it seems, antibiotix, psych meds, ibuprophen, antihistamines etc... it is crazy and no one has a idea why, except maybe liver clearance issues (phase II)?

[anonymous0121]

I found this post from an autism forum that may help:

 

"Nystatin is not derived from strep strain. It is derived from streptomycete called streptomyces noursei which is a fungus itself. The strep strain that everybody is worried about is Streptococcus which is bacterial in origin. People see the strep part in the name and assume that nystatin is derived from streptococcus which is not true." http://www.autismweb.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=26979

 

If you're seeing rages from diflucan, it could be from die off of a systemic yeast infection or it could be for some other reason. My son did diflucan in Sept-Oct and while it helped with some symptoms (stopped his OCD within days), it increased his tics. We never seemed to get past "herxing" symptoms. So we switched to nystatin in Nov and that does seem gentler. Tics have reduced but not gone away. I'm now thinking he has leaky gut - that yeast may be under control, but toxins from normal digestion and diet are seeping into his system due to inflammed/damaged gut lining. Gluten-free or even gluten-reduced diet proved too much for us. We just coudn't do it. So I'm now searching for less ideal options to heal the gut. Using glutamine and will probably try digestive enzymes this week.

 

If I were you, I'd give the nystatin a try. It's been a better fit for my DS and it's less harsh on the liver.

actually the person is wrong, it is a bacteria so wonder if the immune system could react to it like other strep strains...

Streptomyces noursei is a bacterium species in the genus Streptomyces.

Uses[edit]

Nystatin is a polyene antifungal medication isolated from S. noursei

[LNN]

Good digging! But I still have to wonder about your first doctor's advice to avoid anything with the name "strep" in it. I know some here report that yogurts with strep thermopolis has bothered their kids. I don't know if these same kids were bothered by leaky guts, by sugar, by infections at the time...it's never bothered my kids but I also know everyone is different. Since it doesn't seem like a big deal to have to exclude strep-strained yogurts from your diet, it's understandable for someone to want to err on the side of caution.

 

But in the case of anti-yeast meds...well, there are only a handful of them. And since our kids are on multiple abx for multiple years, I think the need for anti-fungals is pretty significant. So to exclude the gentlest, least harsh on the liver medication based on its being derived from something that has strep in the name - well, I think I'd want some scientific explanation of risks rather than just a "better safe than sorry" mindset not backed up by a logical discussion of details. I wouldn't want to throw the baby out with the bath water.

 

My understanding, and I admit it's a bit rusty, is that Cunningham's theories of molecular mimicry go like this: Group A streptococcus bacteria have an M protein on their outer membranes (they have many proteins but it's the M she's singled out). This M protein closely resembles an M protein on the outer membrane of certain cells in the basal ganglia. (There are similar M proteins on certain heart cells, which is thought to be the source of molecular mimicry in rheumatic fever). Cytokines, acting like blood hounds, scour the body looking for the tell-tale finger print of this M protein so they can signal to T-cells specifically trained to kill strep bacteria and like balloons on your mailbox to signal the site of a birthday party, the cytokines find a very similar looking M protein on the basal ganglia and signal for an attack on self. This theory isn't proven to the satisfaction of naysayers, but it seems like a logical theory.

 

Lyme has a very similar M protein on its outer membrane when it's in its rod or spirochete form. This is why Cunningham, in work done about a decade ago, also mentions lyme as a source of an auto-immune response.

 

It is my understanding - and I could be wrong - that Group B strep does not have this particular M protein and is therefore not a trigger for molecular mimicry or a Pandas flare. So it's not clear to me that other organisms with strep in their name are necessarily a trigger either. I think you need to understand the make up of each strain and can't just rely on a name.

 

Could strep thermopolis or strep nousei have this M protein? I don't know. Maybe. And like I said, I can't see the harm in avoiding strep thermopolis in yogurt to play it safe. But I'm not comfortable taking an effective anti-fungal like nystatin out of my toolbox simply because the word "strep" is in the organism that is used to derive nystatin. Nearly two-thirds of antibiotics produced from natural origins are also derived from streptomyces species. (tetracylines, neomycin,clarithromycin) and clavulanic acid - one component of augmentin, is derived from Streptomyces clavuligerus,

 

So is it worth not treating a yeast infection based on nystatin's family tree? It's helped my son a great deal. But we all have to follow our own instincts and truths.