stress and blood brain barrier

[eljomom]

Was just reading over some older posts, and saw this from P.Mom's visit with Dr. C:

 

"Okay, thought of something else. She told me that what is basically happening in PANDAS (which we basically already know) is that illness/infection is opening the blood brain barrier and allowing the offending antibodies to do their dirty work. She also stated that stress can open the blood brain barrier allowing the same thing to happen. That is why our kids flair when under stress, are nervous or excited.....opens blood brain barrier."

 

So if a child gets stressed, like when they are having major separation anxiety somewhere, the BBB is opened and antibodies are getting in??? If that happens on a regular basis, then wouldn't the child just keep on having problems? So if a child lives in a "high stress" home, maybe marital issues, etc., then would they then be more likely to have "chronic" pandas with no remitting of symptoms? This worries me!

[peglem]

Aside from the environment, which may contribute to it, PANDAS itself amps anxiety levels. I've yet to hear of a PANDAS family who was not in a high stress environment due to the disorder itself.

[eljomom]

So I'm sitting here with my husband, and was trying to explain this to him.....wondering if a huge blow-out arguement we had this spring could have opened the BBB and caused this?? He's a german-italian, need i say more?? Also, what is "psychosocial stress"? I keep seeing it in Leckman's writings as "indicator of future tic/ocd severity."

[peglem]

I doubt you could blame it on one argument. Fever opens the BBB, inflammation...its not just stress and if you didn't have those wonky antibodies in the 1st place, a temporary opening would not produce PANDAS. Let me find Buster's "Things that need to happen" list for you.

 

Here it is

Research:

PANDAS is thought to be caused by the following sequence of events in this order:

 

* The production by the immune system of an antibody that can interact with neuronal tissue [Kirvan2006][Kirvan2003]

* A failure of the immune system to suppress this antibody [Kawikova2007]

* A breach of the blood brain barrier such that the antibody reaches neuronal tissue [Yaddanapudi2009]

 

All three areas have active research results and require duplication of experiments to help reach consensus in the research community.

For those interested in a brief history of PANDAS research, please see http://www.latitudes.org/forums/index.php?...amp;#entry36300

From this post on Helpful Threads (pinned at top of forum) http://www.latitudes.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=6265

Edited November 14, 2010 by peglem

[thereishope]

When I would see my son getting stressed out, I tried to quickly change subject/remove him from the situation. yes, it was a chain of events where if he got overly stresses (breathing faster, panic look) I would then see a ramp in symptoms following. But, in what I can remember, it wouldn't be a long tern setback as a result. Maybe a day or so in my child. What isn't "fair" is that with OCD, anxiety comes along with it...how can you really avoid it? All the more reason to get these kids diagnosed, on antibiotics and start the healing so the OCD can start to fade away on its own and the child's reasoning can resurface and you can start to use techniques to calm them and perhaps help them overcome some OCD witout a full meltdown. Also, as a child heals, their own coping skills will slowly come back.

Edited November 14, 2010 by Vickie

[kimballot]

So if a child gets stressed, like when they are having major separation anxiety somewhere, the BBB is opened and antibodies are getting in??? If that happens on a regular basis, then wouldn't the child just keep on having problems? So if a child lives in a "high stress" home, maybe marital issues, etc., then would they then be more likely to have "chronic" pandas with no remitting of symptoms? This worries me!

It is a nasty cycle - PANDAS leads to a stressful house, which feeds into PANDAS, which makes more stress. I think for us the thing that helped most was when we finally knew for sure that this was PANDAS. That really relieved a lot of stress in our house because we finally had a name for "it" and could finally start recognize "it" very early on when it reared its ugly head.... and my husband and I stopped blaming ourselves and each other.

 

My husband and I still have arguments about things from time to time, but it does not seem to affect my son's PANDAS. I think my son is just generally healthier, and his system is less stressed physically, so an argument here or there is not going to put him over the edge... and my husband and I argue so much less because the overall stress and fear of the unknown is decreased.

[kimballot]

So I'm sitting here with my husband, and was trying to explain this to him.....wondering if a huge blow-out arguement we had this spring could have opened the BBB and caused this?? He's a german-italian, need i say more?? Also, what is "psychosocial stress"? I keep seeing it in Leckman's writings as "indicator of future tic/ocd severity."

 

I think when he talks about "psychosocial stress" he is referring to the stress you would typically think of - stress from our interactions with others or our own anxieties or thoughts within ourselves.

 

I think he is comparing this to other forms of stress, such as the physical stress of having an illness. Some docs (not PANDAS docs) think that kids with PANDAS are no different from kids with tics who are reacting to the physical stress of having an illness. I think Leckman wants to be very clear about physical vs. psychosocial stress when he speaks.