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Some bits on clavulanic acid


dut

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Hi - I suspect this has been discussed and posted before but in case it hasn't and for newbies

 

Our dd7 is tanking again, after only just seeming to come out of a long episode, so our ped gives us Augmentin (amox and clav acid) and I go googling and find these

 

Clavulanic acid protects neurons in pharmacological models of neurodegenerative diseases

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ddr.20378/abstract

 

 

A patent app. to use calv acid for "the treatment of a patient suffering from or susceptible to a condition known to result in loss of neuronal cells or loss of neuronal cell function"

http://www.faqs.org/patents/app/20100099656

 

and this

 

http://pn.psychiatryonline.org/content/44/24/33.1.full

•Favorable results from a phase 2a, randomized, placebo-controlled study in patients with major depressive disorder were shown for clavulanic acid, an investigational antidepressant being developed by Rexahn Pharmaceuticals. In an October 19 announcement, the company said that the patients assigned to the treatment had “clinically meaningful improvement” in depressive symptoms and that response to treatment was shown within two weeks of initiating treatment. Clavulanic acid is referred to as a dual serotonin and dopamine enhancer and is being explored for treating other disorders such as Parkinson's disease, anxiety disorder, and Alzheimer's disease.

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My son is on Augmentin (started a week ago) and his mood and attitude has improved SO much. He takes Zithromax too so I wasn't sure which to attribute the change to but from reading this, I would say it's the Augmentin. Although, we have had Augmentin and Zithromax separately in the past and have not seen this type of improvement before so maybe it's a little of both? It's never a clear cut answer for us! :unsure: We are treating for Lyme & PANDAS.

Edited by justinekno
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So I have read that augmentin XR has 62 mg of clauvenic acid in each pill, yet amox clauvenate has 125 mg of clav acid per pill. So my dd recently switched to aug 875 twice per day. Therefore she gets 250 mg od clav acid per day versus those on augXR get 120 mg perday. I have wondered why it seems to make my dd a little hyper, could too much clav acid increasing seratonin and dopamine make her have hyperness. Why is aug XR with less clauv acid the Sammy Sammy dose? Could too much clav acid act like too much SSRI and cause issues with pandas. Or is more clauv acid better? If so why aug XR with less clauv acid. Is Murphy investigating different clav acid dosages? Any insite isgreatly appreciated.

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Ohhh, great questions. Can't wait to see if anyone has answers. We are on Augmention 875 twice a day too.

 

So I have read that augmentin XR has 62 mg of clauvenic acid in each pill, yet amox clauvenate has 125 mg of clav acid per pill. So my dd recently switched to aug 875 twice per day. Therefore she gets 250 mg od clav acid per day versus those on augXR get 120 mg perday. I have wondered why it seems to make my dd a little hyper, could too much clav acid increasing seratonin and dopamine make her have hyperness. Why is aug XR with less clauv acid the Sammy Sammy dose? Could too much clav acid act like too much SSRI and cause issues with pandas. Or is more clauv acid better? If so why aug XR with less clauv acid. Is Murphy investigating different clav acid dosages? Any insite isgreatly appreciated.

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I looked into the pharm company u mentioned, with the clav acid drug. Appears phase II study results for depression were contoversial. Mentions reverse U shape curve, for dosage and efficacy. Too little doesn't help and too much doesn't help either. (U need the right dose, balance) But they are really pushing the parkinsons angle now. Dopamine and brain protection. What's so interesting is Murphy says that augmentin helps tics, she will probably be publishing on this when her studies are complete. So how can we find out how much clav acid is in the new drug? Also isn't zithromax also a type of clav acid drug, someone once said to me that augmentin is amoxicillin with something similiar to zithromax combined with it. I am not sure they are exactly the same but similiar mechanisms?? Any feedback?

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Hi - I suspect this has been discussed and posted before but in case it hasn't and for newbies

 

Our dd7 is tanking again, after only just seeming to come out of a long episode, so our ped gives us Augmentin (amox and clav acid) and I go googling and find these

 

Clavulanic acid protects neurons in pharmacological models of neurodegenerative diseases

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ddr.20378/abstract

 

 

A patent app. to use calv acid for "the treatment of a patient suffering from or susceptible to a condition known to result in loss of neuronal cells or loss of neuronal cell function"

http://www.faqs.org/patents/app/20100099656

 

and this

 

http://pn.psychiatryonline.org/content/44/24/33.1.full

•Favorable results from a phase 2a, randomized, placebo-controlled study in patients with major depressive disorder were shown for clavulanic acid, an investigational antidepressant being developed by Rexahn Pharmaceuticals. In an October 19 announcement, the company said that the patients assigned to the treatment had “clinically meaningful improvement” in depressive symptoms and that response to treatment was shown within two weeks of initiating treatment. Clavulanic acid is referred to as a dual serotonin and dopamine enhancer and is being explored for treating other disorders such as Parkinson's disease, anxiety disorder, and Alzheimer's disease.

 

I apologize if this sound stupid..but i can't digest anymore info....

is it possible to get Clavulanic acid in time release form....

 

Ds can take aug xr..but he has to be on diflucan too as it just wipes out everything in his system..

 

is it possible to do azith and a clavulanic acid pill

or do amox at a lower dose and do clavualnic acid...i wonder if time release is the key..not the high dose..

 

again this may be what you are saying..but i can't compute right now...

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Ohhh, great questions. Can't wait to see if anyone has answers. We are on Augmention 875 twice a day too.

 

So I have read that augmentin XR has 62 mg of clauvenic acid in each pill, yet amox clauvenate has 125 mg of clav acid per pill. So my dd recently switched to aug 875 twice per day. Therefore she gets 250 mg od clav acid per day versus those on augXR get 120 mg perday. I have wondered why it seems to make my dd a little hyper, could too much clav acid increasing seratonin and dopamine make her have hyperness. Why is aug XR with less clauv acid the Sammy Sammy dose? Could too much clav acid act like too much SSRI and cause issues with pandas. Or is more clauv acid better? If so why aug XR with less clauv acid. Is Murphy investigating different clav acid dosages? Any insite isgreatly appreciated.

 

Can I ask how much your daughter weighs? Because we are medicating on our own until Dr. Nicolaides can fit us in, and using Amox875 w/Clav 125 but only once a day for our 82 pounder. Not much of a change after 5 days of this...

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What about the lowest does of amox 250 or 500, half twice a day(has same amount of clav acid as Aug XR,and also zith. That's kind of what we are doing with my dd right now.

Hi - I suspect this has been discussed and posted before but in case it hasn't and for newbies

 

Our dd7 is tanking again, after only just seeming to come out of a long episode, so our ped gives us Augmentin (amox and clav acid) and I go googling and find these

 

Clavulanic acid protects neurons in pharmacological models of neurodegenerative diseases

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ddr.20378/abstract

 

 

A patent app. to use calv acid for "the treatment of a patient suffering from or susceptible to a condition known to result in loss of neuronal cells or loss of neuronal cell function"

http://www.faqs.org/patents/app/20100099656

 

and this

 

http://pn.psychiatryonline.org/content/44/24/33.1.full

•Favorable results from a phase 2a, randomized, placebo-controlled study in patients with major depressive disorder were shown for clavulanic acid, an investigational antidepressant being developed by Rexahn Pharmaceuticals. In an October 19 announcement, the company said that the patients assigned to the treatment had “clinically meaningful improvement” in depressive symptoms and that response to treatment was shown within two weeks of initiating treatment. Clavulanic acid is referred to as a dual serotonin and dopamine enhancer and is being explored for treating other disorders such as Parkinson's disease, anxiety disorder, and Alzheimer's disease.

 

I apologize if this sound stupid..but i can't digest anymore info....

is it possible to get Clavulanic acid in time release form....

 

Ds can take aug xr..but he has to be on diflucan too as it just wipes out everything in his system..

 

is it possible to do azith and a clavulanic acid pill

or do amox at a lower dose and do clavualnic acid...i wonder if time release is the key..not the high dose..

 

again this may be what you are saying..but i can't compute right now...

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Ohhh, great questions. Can't wait to see if anyone has answers. We are on Augmention 875 twice a day too.

 

So I have read that augmentin XR has 62 mg of clauvenic acid in each pill, yet amox clauvenate has 125 mg of clav acid per pill. So my dd recently switched to aug 875 twice per day. Therefore she gets 250 mg od clav acid per day versus those on augXR get 120 mg perday. I have wondered why it seems to make my dd a little hyper, could too much clav acid increasing seratonin and dopamine make her have hyperness. Why is aug XR with less clauv acid the Sammy Sammy dose? Could too much clav acid act like too much SSRI and cause issues with pandas. Or is more clauv acid better? If so why aug XR with less clauv acid. Is Murphy investigating different clav acid dosages? Any insite isgreatly appreciated.

 

Can I ask how much your daughter weighs? Because we are medicating on our own until Dr. Nicolaides can fit us in, and using Amox875 w/Clav 125 but only once a day for our 82 pounder. Not much of a change after 5 days of this...

 

I'm not surprised that once a day isn't helping much. I know some docs rx 1x daily Augmentin, but I don't believe this is terribly effective. As far as I'm concerned, Azith. is the only ab. that can be given once a day. (And, anedoctally, it seems folks on this forum don't find once daily Aug. to be terribly effective.) It should also be noted that the dosing regime by the manufacturer always says every 8-12 hours, not every 24 hours.

 

The half life of Augmentin is only about 1 hour:

 

Amoxicillin serum concentrations achieved with amoxicillin/clavulanate potassium are similar to those produced by the oral administration of equivalent doses of amoxicillin alone. The half-life of amoxicillin after the oral administration of amoxicillin/clavulanate potassium is 1.3 hours and that of clavulanic acid is 1.0 hour. (from http://www.rxlist.com/augmentin-drug.htm)

 

Compare this to azithromycin, which has a half-life of 68 hours.

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I looked into the pharm company u mentioned, with the clav acid drug. Appears phase II study results for depression were contoversial. Mentions reverse U shape curve, for dosage and efficacy. Too little doesn't help and too much doesn't help either. (U need the right dose, balance) But they are really pushing the parkinsons angle now. Dopamine and brain protection. What's so interesting is Murphy says that augmentin helps tics, she will probably be publishing on this when her studies are complete. So how can we find out how much clav acid is in the new drug? Also isn't zithromax also a type of clav acid drug, someone once said to me that augmentin is amoxicillin with something similiar to zithromax combined with it. I am not sure they are exactly the same but similiar mechanisms?? Any feedback?

 

i'm looking...i'm not the one with any med degree...i don't see anything that has azith and Clav acid

anyone?

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Also isn't zithromax also a type of clav acid drug, someone once said to me that augmentin is amoxicillin with something similiar to zithromax combined with it. I am not sure they are exactly the same but similiar mechanisms?? Any feedback?

 

Azith. and clav. acid are totally different.

 

Maybe what they meant to say is that Amoxicillin with Clav. acid makes the Amox. more effective against strep, just like how Azith. is more effective against strep (vs. plain Amox.).

 

Clav. acid by itself, doesn't have too much in the way of anti-bacterial properties (vs. Azith. which has great antibacterial properties by itself.)

 

Although Clavulanic acid does have some degree of bacterial activity, its principal role is as a beta-lactamase inhibitor. Beta-lactam antibiotics, such as the penicillins and cephalosporins, act by disrupting the development of bacterial cells walls thus causing the disintegration of the bacteria. However, some bacteria acquired the genes to produce enzymes which inactivated this mode of action - so called beta-lactamases - drastically reducing the efficacy of this class of antibiotics.

 

Clavulanic acid has a similar structure to the beta-lactam antibiotics but binds irreversibly to the beta-lactamase enzymes. Used in combination with the beta-lactam antibiotics, it has become one of the most prescribed antibiotics in the western world prolonging the effective life of antibiotics such as Ampicillin (as in GSK's Augmentin®)

 

Basically, the Clav. acid makes the Amoxcillin more effective by "imolbilizing" the bacteria that could normally inactivate the amoxcillin.

Edited by EAMom
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