PARC perennial allergic rhinoconjunctivitis can cause tics like PANDAS

[deby]

I was reading this article:

PARC link

Any thoughts?

[melanie]

www.expert-reviews.com

my md is looking at this dx with danny

 

shes published many med articles with this

 

By the way ,I dont care what you call it just FIX IT!!!!

 

Melanie

[fuelforall]

I was reading this article:

PARC link

Any thoughts?

 

 

By god, that sure sounds like my son!

[fuelforall]

That said, there is no reason he does not have both.

I suspect he does. He passes the PANDAS test as well, with motor tics.

So it's a double whammy.

[Fixit]

www.expert-reviews.com

my md is looking at this dx with danny

 

shes published many med articles with this

 

By the way ,I dont care what you call it just FIX IT!!!!

 

Melanie

 

Exactly!!!!

[Fixit]

That said, there is no reason he does not have both.

I suspect he does. He passes the PANDAS test as well, with motor tics.

So it's a double whammy.

 

Do you think they have to be mutually exclusive?

[kim]

I wonder if anyone thinks that there may be some overlap with the condition being described here and PANDAS. Again, I'm going back to the reactivity of the immune system to the N acetylglucosamine in the strep wall.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chitin

 

Chitin (C8H13O5N)n (pronounced /ˈkaɪtɨn/) is a long-chain polymer of a N-acetylglucosamine, a derivative of glucose, and is found in many places throughout the natural world. It is the main component of the cell walls of fungi, the exoskeletons of arthropods such as crustaceans (e.g. crabs, lobsters and shrimps) and insects, the radulas of mollusks and the beaks of cephalopods, including squid and octopuses. Chitin may be compared to the polysaccharide cellulose and to the protein keratin. Although keratin is a protein, and not a carbohydrate like chitin, keratin and chitin have similar structural functions. Chitin has also proven useful for several medical and industrial purposes.

 

from the paper above

 

Prick/puncture testing'3' produced immediate hypersensitivity reactions to glycerinated extracts of cat

hair and pelt, dust mite (Dermatophagoides farinae and D. pteronyssinus) and cockroach extracts (Hollister-

Stier Laboratories LLC).

 

I don't know what "glycerinated extracts," refer to here, but I have looked at "chitin" as being a possible problem for allergic/PANDAS types. Dust mites, and cockroach and even cat hair may be causing reactivity along the same pathways?

 

https://www.achooallergy.com/blog/chitin-suspected-cause/

Research Group Studies Chitin As Suspected Cause of Allergies & Asthma

 

http://health.msn.com/health-topics/asthma...p;wa=wsignin1.0

Asthma and Allergies: Sizing up a Suspected Cause

 

Thought this was interesting too, in regards to the dry eye complaints

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19512904

Acidic mammalian chitinase in dry eye conditions.

[Fixit]

I wonder if anyone thinks that there may be some overlap with the condition being described here and PANDAS. Again, I'm going back to the reactivity of the immune system to the N acetylglucosamine in the strep wall.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chitin

 

Chitin (C8H13O5N)n (pronounced /ˈkaɪtɨn/) is a long-chain polymer of a N-acetylglucosamine, a derivative of glucose, and is found in many places throughout the natural world. It is the main component of the cell walls of fungi, the exoskeletons of arthropods such as crustaceans (e.g. crabs, lobsters and shrimps) and insects, the radulas of mollusks and the beaks of cephalopods, including squid and octopuses. Chitin may be compared to the polysaccharide cellulose and to the protein keratin. Although keratin is a protein, and not a carbohydrate like chitin, keratin and chitin have similar structural functions. Chitin has also proven useful for several medical and industrial purposes.

 

from the paper above

 

Prick/puncture testing'3' produced immediate hypersensitivity reactions to glycerinated extracts of cat

hair and pelt, dust mite (Dermatophagoides farinae and D. pteronyssinus) and cockroach extracts (Hollister-

Stier Laboratories LLC).

 

I don't know what "glycerinated extracts," refer to here, but I have looked at "chitin" as being a possible problem for allergic/PANDAS types. Dust mites, and cockroach and even cat hair may be causing reactivity along the same pathways?

 

https://www.achooallergy.com/blog/chitin-suspected-cause/

Research Group Studies Chitin As Suspected Cause of Allergies & Asthma

 

http://health.msn.com/health-topics/asthma...p;wa=wsignin1.0

Asthma and Allergies: Sizing up a Suspected Cause

 

Thought this was interesting too, in regards to the dry eye complaints

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19512904

Acidic mammalian chitinase in dry eye conditions.

 

that is what i was hinting at...not as eliquently or with as much understanding and knowledge either...smarty pants

the reaction is a pit/pan..a trigger....i won't go on..

 

in the second bolded area...are you saying the chain looks similar to fungi or strep and so the body is attcking it in the same way

[kimballot]

Deby - thanks so much for posting this.

 

I think they bring up some very good points that we often do not like to think about. What if my kid does not really have PANDAS and the relationship to an infection is just coincidental?

 

I agree with Kim - I know my son has increased reactions (including tics) when his allergies ramp up. Does he have PARC in addition to PANDAS - or do the allergies set up inflammation that allows a breach in the Blood Brain Barrier? I'm pretty sure about the PANDAS part because of his response to antibiotics over several exacerbations and his CamK scores. However, I also know that when we are very careful about his allergies he has fewer exacerbations.

 

The best part of this article is that they really worked to find a solution for THIS PARTICULAR child. They started with PANDAS, but the antibiotics did not make a difference, so they moved on. That is what evidence-based practice should be - start with something that seems most plausible based on the evidence - then reassess and move on if it is not working. The problem most of us have had is just the opposite of this child - docs seem to start with something OTHER than PANDAS and when that does not work they do more of the same.

[Fixit]

The best part of this article is that they really worked to find a solution for THIS PARTICULAR child. They started with PANDAS, but the antibiotics did not make a difference, so they moved on. That is what evidence-based practice should be - start with something that seems most plausible based on the evidence - then reassess and move on if it is not working. The problem most of us have had is just the opposite of this child -[b] docs seem to start with something OTHER than PANDAS and when that does not work they do more of the same.[/b]

 

Well Put!!!!!!!!!!!!

[deby]

Deby - thanks so much for posting this.

 

I think they bring up some very good points that we often do not like to think about. What if my kid does not really have PANDAS and the relationship to an infection is just coincidental?

 

I agree with Kim - I know my son has increased reactions (including tics) when his allergies ramp up. Does he have PARC in addition to PANDAS - or do the allergies set up inflammation that allows a breach in the Blood Brain Barrier? I'm pretty sure about the PANDAS part because of his response to antibiotics over several exacerbations and his CamK scores. However, I also know that when we are very careful about his allergies he has fewer exacerbations.

 

The best part of this article is that they really worked to find a solution for THIS PARTICULAR child. They started with PANDAS, but the antibiotics did not make a difference, so they moved on. That is what evidence-based practice should be - start with something that seems most plausible based on the evidence - then reassess and move on if it is not working. The problem most of us have had is just the opposite of this child - docs seem to start with something OTHER than PANDAS and when that does not work they do more of the same.

What you wrote is exactly my feeling, I don't have an answer for your question, I'm pretty new at this (my son started with the tics 2 months ago).

I know that my son has allergies, and I know (by the titers) he had an infection.

Right now is on abx, but the question till when? he is not 100% yet.

What is affecting his tics right now? the allergies/the infection/both?

The problem as you said, that I couldn't find a doctor that keeps trying, that is open to different things.

I took my DS8 to an allergist, and she doesn't believe that allergies can cause tics. Still there are so many doctors that don't open their eyes to other possibilities.

Very frustrating.