spatial and fine motor functions

[norcalmom]

I had recent evaluation of son done including IQ testing, personality and learning style, academic testing. took 5 separate meeting (3 days of tests from 1 1/2 - 2 hours each). He was pretty much at baseline when we did them. I decided this was the best time because I'm trying to decided it baseline is "good enough" or if we should do IVIG, even if he doesn't have exacerbations that are as bad as they were. Same reason we did the Cunningham test at baseline.

 

short story is he would be considered 2e. Gifted and learning disabled.

 

There were two VERY interesting scores. He took the test just before he turned 11(middle of 5th grade), and on most of the tests (there are probably 20 all together) he scored very high. 8th grade and high school levels and one college level, on the academic portion for example. I think most of stuff was done verbally which I knew would help his scores - especially in math where he does most of stuff in his head, and he refuses to write stuff down. Those scores weren't that interesting, we know he is smart and I didn't go there to have someone tell me that or give him a label.

 

The tests are good at isolating abilites.

OK - the interesting test (he got in the 2% ile) was called "processing speed". It is a hand/eye test that measures spatial and fine motor skills together. He was given apporx 10 symbols (they all had more than one mark to make up the symbol..for example a triangle with a semi colon next to it and a dash inside, but not a triangle alone) and above each symbol was a number - from 1 to 10. For the test he had to match up and copy the symbol that corresponded to the number he was given. He had to do as many as possible in 2 minutes.

 

He went so incredibly slow the moderator said it was like time stood still. she could tell he was very anxious. And there was another test that measures the same thing in a different way- again, low score (not as low as this test).

 

When I think about our kids handwriting deterioration (and math too - since they have to visualize something and then write down the number) I'm thinking bingo - this must be pandas related. At least now I have a better understanding. He comes across as aloof, not caring, rushing through work. Making careless errors on test. Appearing to forget things his teacher knows he has mastered.

 

They recommended he use an alpha smart (which he won't do - hates to be different) and have support with anything that requires copying from the board, as well as note taking (i.e. given written assignments, and copies of other students notes). As well as getting into more advanced classes in his area of strength to keep him challenged and feeling good. He will probably balk at all 3 of those. At least now we know why he refuses to write stuff down and tries to all his math in his head.

 

The assessment also suggested mild ADHD, mild executive function problems (borderline for that).

 

Anyhow - I thought I would share that. I'm certain that it is pandas related.

 

I think we are going to do the IVIG, and if that doesn't help with the issue we will try to get a 504 plan (that is if ds will do the 504 plan!). We may re-do that part of the tests in a year.

 

Anybody else's kids use alphasmart?

[EAMom]

I had recent evaluation of son done including IQ testing, personality and learning style, academic testing. took 5 separate meeting (3 days of tests from 1 1/2 - 2 hours each).

We did something similar 1.5 years ago (during 3rd grade). Dd will be entering 5th next fall.

 

The tests are good at isolating abilites.

OK - the interesting test (he got in the 2% ile) was called "processing speed". It is a hand/eye test that measures spatial and fine motor skills together. He was given apporx 10 symbols (they all had more than one mark to make up the symbol..for example a triangle with a semi colon next to it and a dash inside, but not a triangle alone) and above each symbol was a number - from 1 to 10. For the test he had to match up and copy the symbol that corresponded to the number he was given. He had to do as many as possible in 2 minutes.

 

He went so incredibly slow the moderator said it was like time stood still. she could tell he was very anxious. And there was another test that measures the same thing in a different way- again, low score (not as low as this test).

 

I don't know if she did that one. (Maybe Buster will remember.) I do remember she did really badly on the Rey Complex Figure Test http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rey-Osterrieth_Complex_Figure which involves copying, immediate recall, and delayed recall of an abstract picture. Spatial stuff.

 

When I think about our kids handwriting deterioration (and math too - since they have to visualize something and then write down the number) I'm thinking bingo - this must be pandas related. At least now I have a better understanding. He comes across as aloof, not caring, rushing through work. Making careless errors on test. Appearing to forget things his teacher knows he has mastered.

Yup...we have handwriting and math (mainly math fact memorization) issues. She also has HUGE spelling problems (her sister who is 3 years younger can spell some words better than she can). We've never been sure if this is all PANDAS. It's gotten better with remission/treatment but never great.

 

Interestingly, I have another friend who's child was a bad speller (I'm pretty sure not as bad as my dd's) but her spelling improved greatly with puberty (??)> so that is my other hope!

 

They recommended he use an alpha smart (which he won't do - hates to be different) and have support with anything that requires copying from the board, as well as note taking (i.e. given written assignments, and copies of other students notes).

 

Yup... our dd has her own alphasmart. She won't use it in class unless the whole class is using for something. Her teacher (4th grade) actually had a classroom supply of alphasmarts for certain assignments for all the kids to use. We would have liked her to use it for other things (essays on tests etc), but she refused. She also has incredible problems COPYING (esp. from the board) but even has problems if the word is on a paper right in front of her. For example, it's easier for her to make up her own spelling sentences than try to COPY something somebody else has written.

 

She'll use her alpha smart at home for writting reports and such.

 

An inexpensive laptop would be another choice, but in middle school/elementary school they said it'd likely be stolen (or broken). Plus the alphasmart has a LOOONG battery life.

 

The assessment also suggested mild ADHD, mild executive function problems (borderline for that).

No adhd for us although during exacerbations she does act a bit adhd 'ish while doing math homework.

 

Anyhow - I thought I would share that. I'm certain that it is pandas related.

 

Yeah...I've never been sure how much of dd's issues are PANDAS related. Our dd probably counts as 2E too...high IQ, great writer (once you get beyond the spelling, bad handwriting), and great reader (speed and comprehension).

 

I do totally believe that PANDAS will impact kids (academically) all a bit differently. For example, Saving Sammy had no problem retaining his math skills (lucky him).

[MomWithOCDSon]

Did our DS fly out there and take your DS's test, pretending to be him?!?!

 

We had almost IDENTICAL results on our DS's set of tests for his IEP, which he took not at the height of his exacerbation, but shortly after we began abx; and he was in 6th grade (just beginning).

 

I think the spatial thing is key. I will say, our DS had some tendencies in that direction before exacerbation; the exacerbation just seemed to exagerate them. Also the ADHD-type tendencies with respect to processing has always sort of lurked, just becoming problematic during exacerbation.

 

We were also given the suggestion that he could use an Alphasmart, but he refused; not only did he not want to look different, but his perfectionism OCD was terrified that he would drop it, lose it, etc.

 

So, instead, we structured his IEP to permit him to borrow a copy of notes from classmates, take written tests orally if necessary during exacerbation, etc. Plus, he has his own computer at home and keyboards a majority of his homework (except math), which we made sure was also part of the IEP accommodations.

 

The one thing about our DS, which I suspect is part of your DS's nature, too -- especially when not in exacerbation -- is that he has an INCREDIBLE memory, especially for those topics that interest him. So, sometimes, taking notes (in science, in math) is redundant anyway.

[momto2pandas]

I had similar results when I was a kid. I had IQ and other cognitive testing done twice, both during my anorexia years. Everything came out very high except for the spatial scores, which came out below average. The difference was so striking that the testing team told me that I must have brain damage of some sort - some major insult to the tissue. They said that absent that, the kind of disparaties I had would not be normal.

 

I still feel that way with some spatial things. I have the world's worst sense of direction - get lost constantly, and every time I park my car in a big parking lot, I'm sure that I will never be able to find my way back to it. I get spatially disoriented very easily. I cannot remember how to get from point A to point B (driving), even if I've done it a lot of times. I have to call my husband frequently when I'm out and about to get directed properly.

 

I haven't noticed those problems in my kids; in fact, my 6 y.o. often reminds me how to get places when I get disoriented (backseat driver!). With my 4 y.o., it may be too early to tell.

[norcalmom]

yes - his memory was very good. His spelling was excellent. The test didn't go high enough to accomodate. He never spells anything correctly when he has to wrtie essays.I think his memory is actually getting better - and he has been ususing it to compensate for difficulty he has been having in this area. Like holding numbers in his head instead of writing them down when doing long division. Problem is, the stuff gets more difficult and "show your work" counts for more than 50% of the problems.

 

I think my son could benefit for having access to others notes (judging from the VERY high volume of notes my daughter has in middle school.) she is two years older. But, I don't want him to feel stupid (and he will insist that he is stupid and that we think he is stupid, which is why we are suggesting it.)

 

How did you guys deal with this?

 

EAMOM - if you say a work for you daughter and ask her to spell it verably instead of write it down, does it make a difference? Also - I'm a horrible speller(ALWAYs my lowest grade as a kid), so I don't think it really means anything! It stops being a subject in school at middle school, and they can use the spell check.

 

The interesting thing to me (and the guy that administered the test) was the huge difference in scores. The low score basicaly invalidates the whole IQ test - because it was double the limit of tolerance from one area to another (I think the absolute value was 24 points difference from the next lowest score...ds's was over 40 points different (not out of 100)). It's almost impossible to get in the bottom 2%...if you are in mainstream school, without any obvious special needs. And even though ds did well in the other areas, they are underestimated because without that skill - it brings almost everything down, even though they try to isolate.

 

I'm just trying to figure out how to get him to survive middle school with his self esteem in tact.

[Buster]

In the case of our dd9, she has had difficulty copying. The word could literally be written in the question above or many times on the sheet of paper (or in the room) and she can't copy it right in the answer.

 

She reads at an extraordinary rate with excellent comprehension, but spelling has been torture. She sight reads, but spell phonetically. She can't, however, remember which phoneme choice goes in the space. She doesn't "see" the shape.

 

The tests isolated that an area known as her orthographic memory (i.e., spatial memory) was not functioning normally. If you use a peg board, she can get a pattern. If you ask her to copy a pattern, she couldn't. It was literally the combination of see, remember, write -- if you removed any of the steps then she could typically do the action.

 

The easiest way to tell the difference is with our youngest daughter, when she wants to know how to spell a word, she'd like us to write it out for her. With out oldest, she wants us to tell it to her. If we write it out, it is of almost no help.

 

For the longest time we thought this a form of dyslexia and it might be -- but it has a rather odd manifestation.

 

 

Buster

 

 

 

yes - his memory was very good. His spelling was excellent. The test didn't go high enough to accomodate. He never spells anything correctly when he has to wrtie essays.I think his memory is actually getting better - and he has been ususing it to compensate for difficulty he has been having in this area. Like holding numbers in his head instead of writing them down when doing long division. Problem is, the stuff gets more difficult and "show your work" counts for more than 50% of the problems.

 

I think my son could benefit for having access to others notes (judging from the VERY high volume of notes my daughter has in middle school.) she is two years older. But, I don't want him to feel stupid (and he will insist that he is stupid and that we think he is stupid, which is why we are suggesting it.)

 

How did you guys deal with this?

 

EAMOM - if you say a work for you daughter and ask her to spell it verably instead of write it down, does it make a difference? Also - I'm a horrible speller(ALWAYs my lowest grade as a kid), so I don't think it really means anything! It stops being a subject in school at middle school, and they can use the spell check.

 

The interesting thing to me (and the guy that administered the test) was the huge difference in scores. The low score basicaly invalidates the whole IQ test - because it was double the limit of tolerance from one area to another (I think the absolute value was 24 points difference from the next lowest score...ds's was over 40 points different (not out of 100)). It's almost impossible to get in the bottom 2%...if you are in mainstream school, without any obvious special needs. And even though ds did well in the other areas, they are underestimated because without that skill - it brings almost everything down, even though they try to isolate.

 

I'm just trying to figure out how to get him to survive middle school with his self esteem in tact.

Edited July 3, 2010 by Buster

[LNN]

We haven't had our DS tested. Had one scheduled but were told by our Pandas doc it wouldn't measure the real him - just the Pandas issues. That to get a true picture, we should get him healthy first and then see what issues remained. So we took the $2K deposit and put it toward pex : )

 

Much of what you guys write about rings true. Doing math in his head, horrible spelling (though he'll memorize in his head, get 100% on the week's spelling test, then not retain the words a day later). He struggles with reading fluency because he has little ability to decode the sounds in a word and finds language rules so frustrating (too many exceptions to the rules), that he has a deer in the headlights attitude toward language arts.

 

I feel so bad for him. I don't know how to get others to understand how bright the light is under the basket.

 

What about puzzles? For the longest time, he refused to do puzzles. Yesterday he did one that was at age level, but he misses such obvious clues - trying to use a piece without a straight edge as a border piece, taking a picture piece that had a horizontal line and trying to insert it with the line in a vertical position... He just doesn't use visual cues the way he should. For 3 years, I've raised this with teachers and they just shrug.

 

I've always had this nagging feeling that there's more I should be doing for him. Not just the traditional stuff he'd get with an IEP (we recently got a 504). I mean something extra-curricular to help - that he needs to have a lesson delivered in a non-traditional, action-based way. I equate it to someone who's brilliant and had a paralyzing accident. They must be so frustrated to have people suddenly shouting at them as if they're deaf, or speaking slowly as if they're stupid. They must be so frustrated with themselves, knowing they have so much to share but so angry at bodies and brains that don't cooperate.

 

Does anyone know of any programs, books, teaching approaches - designed specifically for 2E kids? I feel like my local resources are somewhat sympathetic but completely clueless and have no tools but the traditional ones that I feel are ineffective for Pandas issues.

[Megs_Mom]

What a fascinating topic. Our daughter (9 next month) is at 99% in terms of behavior, but I can't say she is cured, as she still has blips of 3-6 days with repiratory illness or exposure to strep/impetigo. The are minor but very noticable.

 

She has been treated with abx now for 10 months. Her spelling is 3000% better, she is at the top of her class for math, and socially she is doing great. But in reading the above, I may take her back for testing again at the OT. However, she still balks at writing. If requested, she will do it, and it's massively improved - but you can watch the great effort that it takes her - versus reading and anything oral, which she flys through and finds incredible joy in. When we discuss it, she always talks about how she wants to do a job that won't make her write. I actually told her about 4 days ago, that when she gets older, she'll never have to do handwriting again. She can use a computer. She was THRILLED and was asking how old she needs to be. I may buy an alphasmart for home this summer & see how that goes. I don't really like handwriting either, but can type like crazy, so it did not seem like a big deal to me.

 

She really struggles from copying from the board. She is in a very small class, and the teacher actually agreed this year to move to worksheets that the kids fill in instead, so she only had to do some of the words. Before we got that in place, she would come home with completely unintelligible notes that made no sense, and there was no way to study for tests. I'm going to test her on copying skills in the next few days. She will always ask me how to spell a difficult word, even when it is in front on her, but I've not really thought about it at this point.

 

The only math struggle she has is in memorizing multiplication. She is fabulous on all math skills and comprehension - give her any word problem with multiple levels and she can do it in her head. But ask her to do a timed multiplication test, and it is a reach chore.

 

LLM - she could not do puzzles in exacerbation at all - now she can do them, but she still tries the puzzle pieces in each direction before placing it in the puzzle. Even if there is an obvious clue, like a red corner or part of an eye, she does not seem to draw the connection. She doesn't really enjoy puzzles - she doesn't get that "ah-ha" pleasure that I do when a puzzle piece just leaps out at you. For her, it is "try each piece". Even when I show her tricks like finding colors, it doesn't really help her much. She'll try to put pieces together that clearly (to me) have nothing to do with each other.

 

She also cannot "find" anything. We have a joke about it now - if I can find the thing she is looking for in the place that she is standing in 5 seconds, then she owes me a nickle. She doesn't seem to know how to move her body around to see things from different angles. We did the nickle thing to help her be a little more motivated to try - but now that we are well into that (she hates to lose anything!) it is clear to me that she really doesn't seem to be able to find things that are underneath something or partially hidden. This was obvious and distressing during a PANDAS episode, but now that I am thinking about it, this is clearly left over from PANDAS.

 

It's funny, my perspective right now, is that she is doing great (which she is in regards to OCD and joy, which is, in some ways, all I care about!), and I enjoy not being hypervigilant about things. But this post is helping me see some things that might help her out in the next school year. Thanks for these clues. I am reallly enjoying reading the 2E links.

 

We are doing a math program for "fun" this summer, that is called Singapore Math. So far, it does not involve "showing your work" and does a lot of work on "mental math". It is concept based & we are loving it. For kids that have trouble with memorization, you might like it.

[kimballot]

My son (13) has had problems with handwriting & spelling all along. EA Mom mentioned copying being a problem and - yes- we see that too. Very problemmatic as we prepare for High School. The school has recommended alphasmart - definitely NOT a cool thing to use in middle school and my son vetoed the idea. We bought him a mini laptop to use at school and the teachers did not want it - too much to keep track of. They have computers in every room in the school, they say (but does anyone suggest that he USE them?). This years IEP meeting was spent discussing when he should / should not type things out (I was exhausted when it was over).

 

We need some studies about this with PANDAS kids.

 

 

I do believe that the evidence for kids with Tourette having trouble with visuospatial abilities and handwriting is documented in the literature. Most of the work probably included PANDAS kids as there was no distinction when these studies were completed.

 

We need to study kids with a PANDAS diagnosis to get this in print.

Edited February 16, 2011 by kimballot

[momto2pandas]

This is all so interesting. My ds6 has no trouble with this stuff - in fact, he was doing the 50-states puzzle and other hard things like that before he was 2. My ds4, however, still misses those simple cues like edges, etc - which I never understood. The interesting thing is that he DOES seem to be able to do a jigsaw puzzle that has A, B, C, etc in order - if the cues are print cues, he gets that. But a puzzle of animals or trucks is harder for him. He also has a harder time with handwriting than my ds6 did at this age.

 

It reminds me of 2 things about myself, too - one, I also lose things easily and get very stressed about finding them. When I look for something (usually my keys or sunglasses) that is not in sight, I get that same almost panicky/hopeless feeling that I get when I get lost while driving, like my brain just isn't going to help me out with the task.

 

The other thing is that I can't draw worth a darn - I can't even draw as well as a 5 or 6 year old. My handwriting is fine, but I cannot look at an image and figure out how to reproduce it. I can copy something like a chart just fine (pie chart, flag, etc.) - something with logical patterns that I can process "intellectually", but my pictures of animals, people, etc. are embarassing. It seems to have a parallel with my 4 yo's puzzle process. If the order of the alphabet ("pattern") helps him out, he can put all the pieces together, but as soon as it gets more purely shape-driven, it gets harder.

 

My 6 yo, in contrast, is an amazing artist, much better than I am - so obviously it's not univeral PANDAS.

 

On the other hand, my 6 yo canNOT follow a line of sight. If you point to something in the distance, he will look in completely a different direction. He cannot triangulate at all the direction of your figurepoint and your gaze, and what he then looks at. He also doesn't seem to be able to coordinate hearing and visual cues very well - he can't search effectively for a singing bird in a tree.

 

I also wonder if this has any relationship to coordination and athletic ability. One of the most striking things we noticed about steroid burst and then IVIG was that suddenly my 6 yo was getting the basketball into the basket almost every time, and my then-3 year old was catching a football almost every time (near range, but still - a real catch). This has been one of the starkest differences we've seen since starting treatment.

 

Come to think of it, we haven't tried puzzles etc. since IVIG - gotta give that a try.

[EAMom]

We haven't had our DS tested. Had one scheduled but were told by our Pandas doc it wouldn't measure the real him - just the Pandas issues. That to get a true picture, we should get him healthy first and then see what issues remained. So we took the $2K deposit and put it toward pex : )

Yeah...when we started the testing it was the fall after @#$%& of 2nd grade. We thought things were pretty much in remission (we had started Azith. several months before). We later realized that she was actually reacting to strep/other illnesses, so the PANDAS was still there. We were also told by a psychiatrist (not ours, but one that was familiar with PANDAS) that PANDAS shouldn't affect things (I don't believe this to be true!).

 

Much of what you guys write about rings true. Doing math in his head, horrible spelling (though he'll memorize in his head, get 100% on the week's spelling test, then not retain the words a day later). He struggles with reading fluency because he has little ability to decode the sounds in a word and finds language rules so frustrating (too many exceptions to the rules), that he has a deer in the headlights attitude toward language arts.

 

How old is your son now? In Kindergarten and 1st grade our dd really struggled with learning to read. Decoding was really hard for her. She just couldn't sound out words! She would look at the first letter and the last letter of a word and guess what the word was. In 2nd grade something "clicked" and she started to be able to read (sight reading). By third grade she was reading well above grade level and her reading profiency (speed) was at college level with 100% comprehension.

 

One thing that you might try with that MIGHT help with reading (I think I read it in a dyslexia book somewhere) is to always leave the closed captioning on when you watch TV. I wasn't sure if my dd (at the time she was learning to read) paid any attention to the closed captioning, but I asked her and she said she did.

[MomWithOCDSon]

yes - his memory was very good. His spelling was excellent. The test didn't go high enough to accomodate. He never spells anything correctly when he has to wrtie essays.I think his memory is actually getting better - and he has been ususing it to compensate for difficulty he has been having in this area. Like holding numbers in his head instead of writing them down when doing long division. Problem is, the stuff gets more difficult and "show your work" counts for more than 50% of the problems.

 

I think my son could benefit for having access to others notes (judging from the VERY high volume of notes my daughter has in middle school.) she is two years older. But, I don't want him to feel stupid (and he will insist that he is stupid and that we think he is stupid, which is why we are suggesting it.)

 

How did you guys deal with this?

 

I'm just trying to figure out how to get him to survive middle school with his self esteem in tact.

 

Yes, the "Show your work" stuff can be trying. Our DS is exceptionally gifted in math, but even when out of exacerbation, when he hits one of those questions that says "explain your answer," he bristles (during exacerbation, he downright freaks).

 

We've included an exemption for "show your work" in his IEP, and we've generally had very good results with his teachers, anyway. It is obvious he knows how to do the work, and he gets the right answer 99% of the time, so they've been very flexible about it. In the end, if they feel they need to know further about his thought processes, they arrange a time for some verbal exchanges, during which DS can "explain his answer" or "show his work" with spoken words, rather than written words or numbers.

 

I know exactly where you're coming from on the self-esteem stuff; our DS has suffered with that at points in time, as well. He doesn't want to be different, singled out, noticed, etc. Plus, he's got this perfectionism/scrupulosity OCD stuff that brings about a lot of guilt if and when he takes advantage of the accommodations he's been granted in the IEP (or his former 504 Plan). We've spent a lot of time and energy talking to DS about learning differences; about how his brain functions better at some things, and less efficiently at others, and how most schools are designed for "the common denominator," so some kids wind up getting left out on either ends of the learning spectrum. That this is why he has an IEP, that if he doesn't use the accommodations when he needs them, then the school will feel that he doesn't need them after all and terminate them. That it's not because he's stupid that he's been given these accommodations . . . that, in fact, it is the opposite. It's that he's so bright that much of the work the typical class calls for (show your work, color in this map, cut out these bugs, explain your answer) seems redundant and unnecessary to him, making him frustrated and calling for the use of some skills (like fine motor) that are more taxing for him and wearing him out.

 

Quite honestly, I think the IEP was the best thing we ever did. He'd had a 504 Plan since 3rd grade, but when his exacerbation hit the spring before 6th grade, and the school suggested that his needs seemed to extend beyond the reach of the typical 504 and that an IEP might be better suited, we decided to go with it. I was nervous because moving him to an IEP officially put him under the auspices of "Special Ed," and when I was in junior high, the "Special Ed" kids were far and away a different group of kids than I see my DS as being. But Special Ed has changed, and my DS, though characterized by the IEP in that program, only participates in a single Special Ed cirriculum offering: the IIC class period, which is basically a study hall/chill out period where he gets to catch up if his processing has slowed him down on an in-class assignment, or touch base with his IEP caseworker if he's having a problem with a teacher or a class, or just chill out and relax a little during the school day. Otherwise, he's in the same Gifted Ed and Accelerated classes he'd been in otherwise. It's just that, with the IEP, he has some extra help and some extra hands to help him through the rough patches.

 

In our case, another benefit of the IEP was that DS has found a mentor . . . another adult besides his parents who understands his challenges and champions him not just with DS's other teachers and the school at large, but with DS himself. When DS gets down on himself or starts beating himself up (let's face it, junior high stinks even without PANDAS or OCD!), his mentor/caseworker is there to remind him just how good he is at various things, how strong he is, how capable, etc.

[norcalmom]

Thanks for all this feedback. I will put your advice to good use!

 

One thing ds son's eval mentioned was that he would do better with mentoring style teaching. So, finding an advocate via a 504 plan or IEP might be something to investigate.Using a laptop (I know he will veto alphasmart).

 

I think my son has had pandas for a long time. I think he has developed coping mechanisms that some of your younger kids and sudden-onset kids don't have yet. I'm sure in exacerbation his testing would have been very different too. He was at baseline when we did it. In retrospect, I think he's had since approx age 6. Subclinical symptoms, and his personality is very demanding to begin with, so hard to separate when he was irritable, and when he was just yanking our chains! The november teachers meeting would always be great, they would rave about him...then come the spring meeting and he'd have "issues". they varied. Would would say -"its just a phase"...and he would come through it and it would appear that it was a phase.

 

The puzzle thing is interesting - when he was little - under 5 he was great at puzzels, loved bionicals and legos. And in retrospect I've seen him struggle with things that should have been easy for him - for example last year in class the entire class built a town to scale based upon floor plans they made. He got through it, but had difficulty getting his building to represent what he drew on the floor plan. It didn't match up, and he coldn't see that it didn't.

 

BTW - EAMOM - the doc that said that "pandas shouldn't effect things" - HYSTERICAL! It effects everything. The anxiety alone, over having to copy someting, I now know would be enough to make our kids "bad test -takers" in general. We all know that feeling of freezing up on a test.

 

DS has always excelled in sports, but had poor fine motor. No interest in drawing or writing or coloring or cutting out paper - nothing that would develop those skills. So the there was not a huge deterioration in handwriting skills but there was one noticable thing he did - he would write over an existing letter or number that was already formed. The second time it would be equally as messy (actually it made everyting alot more messy). In exacerbation he did it ALOT - almost every word would have one letter he wrote over again. Now he still does it, maybe one letter sentence.

 

MOMwithOCDSon - My son wasn't a huge reader until 4th grade. And often I'd have to pick a book and read first chapter to him to get him going. I think largely the content of the books that he could read in 2nd grade just couldn't hold his interest. There were a few great books that got him hooked - one of them was "Enders Game" I read some aloud to him, and he would read a couple chapters, and then I'd read to him again. It took awile for him to build his reading stamia. "Benedict Society" the Lightning Theif series, "The Wright Three". He was never a harry potter fan unfortunaely those provided material for my daughter for years.

 

Our librarian suggested allowing him to read under his level for his required stuff (because he would choose books far beneath his capability), and to keep reading aloud to him. Make it enjoable. It was for both of us - and reading should be a no stress enjoyable time. Once I got that (and foudn types of books he enjoyed), he bloomed.

[LNN]

What's a "mentoring style" of teaching?

 

Re: the puzzle thing - the interesting thing in our house is that I always know we're coming out on the other side of an exacerbation because he suddenly re-discovers an interest in building things. He has a marble roller coaster - you build snap-together tracks, make loop-de-loops, and then run marbles on the course. When I see that come out of the box, it's like the sun coming out from behind the clouds. (but he still can't do puzzles well).

 

The thing your son does with re-tracing letters is a very common OCD thing. You may want to probe a little. Often it's a compulsion to get each letter "just right". In my son's case, he could care less if the letter is "beautiful" but he'll re-trace so that there are no open spaces - an "O" has to be completely closed, even if it means making some bizarre line to connect the closure. They'll erase until it meets their OCD need.

 

Thanks for the book tips. DS (8) starts 3rd grade in the fall and he's a very reluctant reader. He too finds the books at his level very "lame". But he also struggles with the same thing EAMom described - read the first and last letter and guess at the rest. I'll see if I can find a few of the books you mentioned. I know that on a prednisone taper, his reading improved dramatically (until the next episode a short time later).

 

What I don't get is why more researchers in more fields aren't fascinated by our kids. Instead of arguing over whether Pandas exists, we have a group of kids who represent "before and after" in so many ways. OCD experts should be snapping pictures of their brains to see what they look like when they have OCD and when they don't. OT experts should be studying how fine motor skills change during and after. Tic research, executive functioning, teaching/learning disabilities, you name it. We have kids who have light switches. You can study the same kid in and out of exacerbation and gleen a treasure trove of info. Instead, egomaniacs get paid money to write articles about zebras and horses... sorry - I digress...

[EAMom]

Thanks for the book tips. DS (8) starts 3rd grade in the fall and he's a very reluctant reader. He too finds the books at his level very "lame". But he also struggles with the same thing EAMom described - read the first and last letter and guess at the rest. I'll see if I can find a few of the books you mentioned. I know that on a prednisone taper, his reading improved dramatically (until the next episode a short time later).

I think it is pretty common for kids to find the books written for "below 3rd graders" less than interesting. My friend with twins (who are huge readers now, going in to 8th grade)....the mom said they didn't really start reading a lot for fun until 3rd grade. The same for my PANDAS dd (now going into 5th). I think the material b-4 that just isn't interesting. As a child, I myself don't remember reading for fun until 3rd grade.

 

I was just reading about Henry Winkler's books (Hank Zipzer) ...maybe your son would like those?? http://www.amazon.com/Hank-Zipzer-Collecti...r/dp/0448439778

 

 

What I don't get is why more researchers in more fields aren't fascinated by our kids. Instead of arguing over whether Pandas exists, we have a group of kids who represent "before and after" in so many ways. OCD experts should be snapping pictures of their brains to see what they look like when they have OCD and when they don't. OT experts should be studying how fine motor skills change during and after. Tic research, executive functioning, teaching/learning disabilities, you name it. We have kids who have light switches. You can study the same kid in and out of exacerbation and gleen a treasure trove of info. Instead, egomaniacs get paid money to write articles about zebras and horses... sorry - I digress...

 

Yeah...I don't get that either.