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Hello

 

We had a diagnos-techs poo test run on both kids (dd7 PANDAS, ds2 almost def PANDAS). I was wondering if anyone with the time and inclination would mind giving me their thoughts on the results. Both kids have been on proph. zith for many months (ds) years (dd) and more recently, treatment levels of zith.

DD

 

no yeast cultured but many seen

 

rare/moderate normal flora

 

pathogens - rare, klebsiella, enterobacter, serratia

- moderate alpha hemo strep

 

Secretory IgA 17 - this was super low, with low reference range <400

 

Chymotrypsin - 5 with normal being >9, low 4-9

 

 

DS

 

light growth of candida albicans and candida krusei

 

trace of saprophytic fungi (this stuff grows on dead stuff.. yum :wub: )

 

moderate normal flora

 

pathogens - moderate Klebsiella, enterobacter, serratia

 

- moderate alpha hemo strep

 

- rare gamma hemo strep

 

total secretory IgA 47 - again very low, low being <400

 

alpha anti chymotrysin - 376 - which supposedly shows small intestine irritation (normal lysozyme, if this was elevated then colonic inflammation but wasn't)

 

chymotrypsin abnormally low at <3

 

 

chymotrysin is marker for pancreatic output/enzymes.

 

 

 

I've researched individual test results but wonder if anyone can make a big picture from this? I'm thinking lots of abx aren't helping but my dd tested very similarly to this 2 years ago at which point she hadn't had months of abx. In fact, this time around she wasn't showing the small intestine irritation that she was showing last time. My dd has allergies (cashew and pistachio and 2 years ago was 1 year on from becoming un-allergic to milk) and we suspect my ds but can't pinpoint it. I am wondering if this is playing inot the intestinal irritation.

 

Anyways.. any ideas gratefully received.. thanks

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I don't have alot of information to give but will say that my son had stool testing done prior to being diagnosed with PANDAS. He was never really on many antibiotics but did show some bad bacteria in the gut (alpha haemolytic streptococcus, stretococcus agalactiae gp b, agamma hemo strep and enterobacter cloacae. Our dr gave my son Septra and then Flagyl to treat the enterobacter as the level was pretty high. He feels this may help my son avoid the colitis that runs in the family on my husband's side. He didn't seem too concerned about the other bacteria although now I am wondering if the streps can have anything to do with PANDAS symptoms.... The reason for the stool testing was constipation. The dr also put him on probiotics and s. boulardii. He hasn't had any bowel issues since. What did your dr say about the results?

 

I know there was a thread a few weeks ago about the Klebsiella as I posted on there about my dh's experience with it (was on long term antibiotics as a child and has Colitis - dr treated with Bactrim and Flagyl along with some herbal remedies). Maybe if you search klebsiella it will come up?

 

just bumping for ideas....:-)
Edited by justinekno
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Hi Dut

Just wanted to say that DS9 also has very low SIgA - we first got a count about 3 years ago, when it was 13, which horrified me! When we rechecked it about a year ago it was 9! As you say, it should be at least 400. These tests were all done before we started seeing Dr Keller - they were done thru our environmental doc at the time. Dr Keller said a low SIgA seems quite common among her PANDAS kids. Our enviro doc said people with such low counts would normally pick up a lot of infections but our son doesn't. He said other parts of the immune system are clearly compensating for it. He said there really isn't a way to increase the count - some people just have a low number.

Sue

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Comments within your quote, in all caps:

 

Hello

 

We had a diagnos-techs poo test run on both kids (dd7 PANDAS, ds2 almost def PANDAS). I was wondering if anyone with the time and inclination would mind giving me their thoughts on the results. Both kids have been on proph. zith for many months (ds) years (dd) and more recently, treatment levels of zith.

DD

 

no yeast cultured but many seen

 

rare/moderate normal flora GIVING VERY HIGH DOSES OF PROBIOTICS WOULD HELP THIS. WE USE WWW.CUSTOMPROBIOTICS.COM, D-LACTATE FREE FORMULA, EACH OF MY BOYS GETS 400 BILLION PER DAY AND I'M THINKING ABOUT INCREASING FURTHER.

 

pathogens - rare, klebsiella, enterobacter, serratia

- moderate alpha hemo strep I HAVE SEEN ALL OF THESE, WITH THE EXCEPTION OF SERRATIA, IN MY SONS' STOOL ANALYSES. OUR DAN PRACTITIONER SAID THAT THE ALPHA HEMO STREP IS A PROBLEM FOR PANDAS. KLEBSIELLA MADE MY 5YO EXTREMELY VIOLENT AND PSYCHOTIC, WORST TIMES OF OUR LIVES - WAY WORSE THAN PANDAS. HATE TO SAY IT BUT IT BECAME VERY BAD DURING A TX DOSE OF ZITHRO. THIS WAS HELPED BY VANCOMYCIN AND INCREASING PROBIOTICS. ENTEROBACTER WAS HELPED BY GIVING SEPTRA.

 

Secretory IgA 17 - this was super low, with low reference range <400

 

Chymotrypsin - 5 with normal being >9, low 4-9 MAYBE GIVE SOME DIGESTIVE ENZYMES WITH EACH MEAL. MY 2YO GETS A PRESCRIPTION CALLED CREON 6, THIS IS A PANCREATIC ENZYME (I BELIEVE)

 

 

DS

 

light growth of candida albicans and candida krusei

 

trace of saprophytic fungi (this stuff grows on dead stuff.. yum :P )

 

moderate normal flora

 

pathogens - moderate Klebsiella, enterobacter, serratia

 

- moderate alpha hemo strep

 

- rare gamma hemo strep

 

total secretory IgA 47 - again very low, low being <400

 

alpha anti chymotrysin - 376 - which supposedly shows small intestine irritation (normal lysozyme, if this was elevated then colonic inflammation but wasn't)

 

chymotrypsin abnormally low at <3

 

 

chymotrysin is marker for pancreatic output/enzymes.

 

REGARDING INTESTINAL IRRITATION/INFLAMMATION, MY 2YO HAS THIS PRETTY BAD AND AT THE MOMENT HAS BEEN LABELED 'FAILURE TO THRIVE' B/C HE IS NOT GROWING AND IT MAY ALL BE RELATED TO BLEEDING/POOR ABSORPTION. WE ARE GOING TO DO ANOTHER STOOL ANALYSIS, CHECK FOR BLOOD AND ABSORBTION, AND MAYBE GET A REFERRAL TO A GOOD GASTRO DOC WHO CAN DO A SCOPE.

 

 

 

I've researched individual test results but wonder if anyone can make a big picture from this? I'm thinking lots of abx aren't helping but my dd tested very similarly to this 2 years ago at which point she hadn't had months of abx. In fact, this time around she wasn't showing the small intestine irritation that she was showing last time. My dd has allergies (cashew and pistachio and 2 years ago was 1 year on from becoming un-allergic to milk) and we suspect my ds but can't pinpoint it. I am wondering if this is playing inot the intestinal irritation.

 

Anyways.. any ideas gratefully received.. thanks

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thanks for the responses folks... to be honest the low secretory IgA probably worries me the most 'cos although my dd and ds don't get many infections and their other immune numbers are ok, if my dd, especially, does get sick it often seems to go to her stomach and there always seems to be a stomach element to the illnesses that set off her PANDAS flares/episodes.

 

I also worry about the digestive enzyme bit.. 'cos their numbers are so low and I've been googling and scaring myself with pancreatitis and the like. We also have some type 1 and type 2 diabetes in the extended family and although I know pancreatic enzyme insufficinecy doesn't always go hand in hand with pancreatic hormone insufficency, it's got me thinking.....

 

Stephanie - is the digestive enzyme your 2 yo takes a pill? I spoke to our ped briefly (got an appoint this week) and she suggested a good one but it's a pill that neither of my kids will swallow and she says the good ones can be bad for their teeth if chewed......

 

again, thanks for the ideas...

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me again.. sorry.. been googling some more and (not surprisingly) found papers suggesting probiotics will upregulate sIgA but also that fructo-oligosaccharides (FOS) and Isomalto-oligosaccharides will do this also and, if I'm reading it right, shift immune response from Th2 to Th1.....

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