Starting Azithro Again

[Santi]

So I started 250mg Azithro with my son. I'm interested in hearing if your child's symptoms got worse before they got better or if they got better right away when starting abx. We are on our 3rd day and he is still having severe meltdowns. I'm still hopeful though. Andrea

[peglem]

Zith always worked pretty quickly for my child- like next day!

[faith]

its what, its what?!!

[faith]

Santi,

did you feel like you had the same response before, (as you're saying starting 'again')?

 

I didn't like azith, I felt on after a about 5 or 6 days that my son's vocal was off the wall loud and very frequent. I didn't wait it out, I took him off, and he calmed down the next day. now I don't mean he stopped the vocal, but the usual went to crazy and then back to regular when I stopped the azith. don't know what that was about, but it was really obvious.

 

I'm working on a theory,...could I ask, does or did your son every have any stomach/gastro/bowel issues..anything? could yeast be a problem?

 

Faith

[Santi]

Santi,

did you feel like you had the same response before, (as you're saying starting 'again')?

 

I didn't like azith, I felt on after a about 5 or 6 days that my son's vocal was off the wall loud and very frequent. I didn't wait it out, I took him off, and he calmed down the next day. now I don't mean he stopped the vocal, but the usual went to crazy and then back to regular when I stopped the azith. don't know what that was about, but it was really obvious.

 

I'm working on a theory,...could I ask, does or did your son every have any stomach/gastro/bowel issues..anything? could yeast be a problem?

 

Faith

Hi Faith,

 

Our first run on Azith 140mg was great. We saw improvement the next day. My son had a great 1-2 weeks then we took him off (just a trial). Then we did 500mg and yes his tics got a lot worse so we took him off after about 10 days and they got better.

 

Its been about 6 weeks and I decided to try again because he is having severe meltdowns (psychotic-like) where he really doesn't know what he is doing and increased tics both vocal and motor (haven't seen vocal in a while). I started 250mg Azith. and the tics about the same and not as many meltdowns but they are still there, other behaviors are ok (but we do have a high tolerance). I'm still keeping fingers crossed. Andrea

[airial95]

We saw improvement on 100 mg Azith daily (he's only 2 - little guy) after about 12 days. But when we finally saw the difference, it was dramatic. The violent rages were almost completely eliminated - but still dealt with OCD, ADHD and some minor ODD behaviors though.

[smartyjones]

its what, its what?!!

 

oh faith - you make me laugh!

[smartyjones]

I'm working on a theory,...could I ask, does or did your son every have any stomach/gastro/bowel issues..anything? could yeast be a problem?

Faith

 

santi - we did had a terrible experience with azith. the fact that your son was on it recently without such trouble does make me question if it is actually the azith or other factors.

 

my son was on it for original strep (which i believe may have never cleared) when he was 22 mths with no problems. 2.5 years later, pandas behaviors surfaced. he had high titers and + culture. ped put him on 5 days of azith. it was terrible. previous behaviors that had waned came back with a vengenance. once off, he went back to before azith.

 

just previous to that, we had consulted a naturopath who was doing some gut work - possibly why behaviors had waned? he wasn't really showing gut trouble other than pandas symptoms and igg test for many foods.

 

about a month later, new ped put him on 30 days keflex and nystatin b/c i said i was questioning if yeast was involved. he was 100% pre-pandas in about 3 days. i always credit the keflex. could the nystatin have also played a big role? our ped did nystatin b/c i asked about it, his normal protocol is just abx. however, he did share with me that abx rip up his stomach and he has a protocol he personally uses if he must do abx of rotating diflucan and nystatin.

 

i don't really know the differences in abx - could it be that azith amplifies yeast trouble more than other abx?

[faith]

thanks for that smartyj, now that makes me think more. You felt the keflex helped, but he was also on nystatin at the time? ... whith the azith, any diarea?

 

Santi, you didn't mention any gut or bowel issues, was there any other reaction while on azith such as diarea? or anything that would be considered a gut/bowel issue prior to any abx?

 

Perhaps we are not giving enough reality to the fact that abx can cause some gut problems, that will in turn cause issues (yeast) that will bring symptoms of tics out. this is a hard one to figure out, but I'm slowly working on it. I havn't really explored that avenue much because I don't know how you can tell if yeast is present, that's a hard one, who knows whats going on in there without testing, and I'm not even sure the testing is reliable, that's more of an alternative thing, not sure alot of docs would agree there was yeast problems without obvious symptoms, so this is one for a DAN doc or naturopath.

[lynn]

Perhaps we are not giving enough reality to the fact that abx can cause some gut problems, that will in turn cause issues (yeast) that will bring symptoms of tics out. this is a hard one to figure out, but I'm slowly working on it. I havn't really explored that avenue much because I don't know how you can tell if yeast is present, that's a hard one, who knows whats going on in there without testing, and I'm not even sure the testing is reliable, that's more of an alternative thing, not sure alot of docs would agree there was yeast problems without obvious symptoms, so this is one for a DAN doc or naturopath.

 

Faith

 

Coming from the biomedical side of Tourettes, I have been wondering the same thing. DS has been on Augmentin for 3 weeks, OCD and tics have been really high. But he has the biafra baby stomach now (where the rest of him is a normal weight but the stomach sticks out) and that has always been a sign of yeast for him. I added in grepefruit seed extract and candida clear, and some improvement is occurring. But from what? The gut issues? The abx slowly working? Do the candida remedies impede the abx? Does the whole thing together damage the liver? It would be really good to have some definition!

 

Lynn

[PacificMama]

Hi,

Just dropping in today and saw this question (which I see similarly questioned from time to time in other posts)

 

I just want to say that getting a ramp up of symptoms when starting Azith is a classic symptom of lyme and coinfections. This is called a herxheimer reaction, and it only happens with certain diseases. Azith is a widely used lyme treatment.

The worsening of symptoms is not a given when a person has lyme, but it typically does happen. This is due to the toxic die off of bacteria. This may last just a day or two, or it may run into a couple of weeks. It also may cycle a bit after that. However, after the initial worsening, you should then see definite improvement given you are on the right dosage.

 

Alternatively, if there is a yeast problem I suppose it's possible that starting abx would cause a worsening of symptoms.

 

Otherwise, other than an allergic reaction or drug reaction, I know of no other reason why the Azithro would create a problem.

 

Hope this helps with anyone who has this issue, or might be wondering about lyme or similar bacterial infections.

 

 

So I started 250mg Azithro with my son. I'm interested in hearing if your child's symptoms got worse before they got better or if they got better right away when starting abx. We are on our 3rd day and he is still having severe meltdowns. I'm still hopeful though. Andrea

[Santi]

thanks for that smartyj, now that makes me think more. You felt the keflex helped, but he was also on nystatin at the time? ... whith the azith, any diarea?

 

Santi, you didn't mention any gut or bowel issues, was there any other reaction while on azith such as diarea? or anything that would be considered a gut/bowel issue prior to any abx?

 

Perhaps we are not giving enough reality to the fact that abx can cause some gut problems, that will in turn cause issues (yeast) that will bring symptoms of tics out. this is a hard one to figure out, but I'm slowly working on it. I havn't really explored that avenue much because I don't know how you can tell if yeast is present, that's a hard one, who knows whats going on in there without testing, and I'm not even sure the testing is reliable, that's more of an alternative thing, not sure alot of docs would agree there was yeast problems without obvious symptoms, so this is one for a DAN doc or naturopath.

Hi Faith, sorry I did leave out the gut piece. My son's stools have always been soft and light, and sometimes runny. Right now they are quite runny while on abx. It was also runny on probiotics. When I took him off probiotics it became more solid again but still light...what a nice conversation piece. Anyway I'm wondering if another abx would be better for him??? But I may just need to face the fact that he really isn't PANDAS. Andrea

[justinekno]

Now the question would be, do you stop the azith and do further research into seeing which co-infection it is or stay on the azith and try to move through the herxing.

 

Hi,

Just dropping in today and saw this question (which I see similarly questioned from time to time in other posts)

 

I just want to say that getting a ramp up of symptoms when starting Azith is a classic symptom of lyme and coinfections. This is called a herxheimer reaction, and it only happens with certain diseases. Azith is a widely used lyme treatment.

The worsening of symptoms is not a given when a person has lyme, but it typically does happen. This is due to the toxic die off of bacteria. This may last just a day or two, or it may run into a couple of weeks. It also may cycle a bit after that. However, after the initial worsening, you should then see definite improvement given you are on the right dosage.

 

Alternatively, if there is a yeast problem I suppose it's possible that starting abx would cause a worsening of symptoms.

 

Otherwise, other than an allergic reaction or drug reaction, I know of no other reason why the Azithro would create a problem.

 

Hope this helps with anyone who has this issue, or might be wondering about lyme or similar bacterial infections.

[PacificMama]

Good question. I think it's really imperative to be under the care of a doctor who understands these type of infections. For example, most lyme doctors treating with appropriate dosages will have the patient stay the course through the herx -- unpleasant as it may be. However, too much bacterial die off happening too fast can be a dangerous situation. So yes, for anyone who gets a ramp up of symptoms when starting abx should most definitely get tested for lyme and other similar infections (myco, bartonella, babesia, etc.). Beyond saying that, I'm really hesitant to advise as to whether you should continue the abx until such time as you get the testing done. I would just say to get the testing done as soon as possible -- preferably from Igenix labs.

 

 

Now the question would be, do you stop the azith and do further research into seeing which co-infection it is or stay on the azith and try to move through the herxing.

 

Hi,

Just dropping in today and saw this question (which I see similarly questioned from time to time in other posts)

 

I just want to say that getting a ramp up of symptoms when starting Azith is a classic symptom of lyme and coinfections. This is called a herxheimer reaction, and it only happens with certain diseases. Azith is a widely used lyme treatment.

The worsening of symptoms is not a given when a person has lyme, but it typically does happen. This is due to the toxic die off of bacteria. This may last just a day or two, or it may run into a couple of weeks. It also may cycle a bit after that. However, after the initial worsening, you should then see definite improvement given you are on the right dosage.

 

Alternatively, if there is a yeast problem I suppose it's possible that starting abx would cause a worsening of symptoms.

 

Otherwise, other than an allergic reaction or drug reaction, I know of no other reason why the Azithro would create a problem.

 

Hope this helps with anyone who has this issue, or might be wondering about lyme or similar bacterial infections.

[justinekno]

I bring up the point because we are in a similiar situation. We did the Western Blot while on antibiotics and so I'm not too confident about those results (on top of the fact that the WB is famous for not being a good Lyme test). I spoke with IGenex and they recommend being off of antibiotics for at least 10 days to get a true read. My son then had a bad experience with zithromax so we are back off of it and will do the IGenex test after he has been off of it for 10 days.

 

I think it's important to ask the dr what tests need to be done without being on antibiotics and which ones won't make a difference. These tests can be expensive and do-overs aren't always an option.

 

Good question. I think it's really imperative to be under the care of a doctor who understands these type of infections. For example, most lyme doctors treating with appropriate dosages will have the patient stay the course through the herx -- unpleasant as it may be. However, too much bacterial die off happening too fast can be a dangerous situation. So yes, for anyone who gets a ramp up of symptoms when starting abx should most definitely get tested for lyme and other similar infections (myco, bartonella, babesia, etc.). Beyond saying that, I'm really hesitant to advise as to whether you should continue the abx until such time as you get the testing done. I would just say to get the testing done as soon as possible -- preferably from Igenix labs.

 

 

Now the question would be, do you stop the azith and do further research into seeing which co-infection it is or stay on the azith and try to move through the herxing.

Edited May 22, 2010 by justinekno