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Interesting! Is she a DAN naturopath? You know my feeling, the testing protocols our doctor ran were similar to ASD. Lots of people here see Naturopaths, and most have had a good experience. It all depends on the practitioner. Keep us posted as to whether this works out for your son.




What season is it in Australia (sorry to be so ignorant). Spring? Are you just off 6 months from Norh America?



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It seems you are starting to get great results for your daughter in a very short time, and from experience, learning keeps getting better. A case of sucess creates more sucess.

Maybe our kids with the tic sypmtoms are more sensitive and just take longer, or hopefully any seasonal allergies will soon be over. Funny that the three on this side of the world seem to be getting worse in sinc.


Claire and Ausclare


Your both right not to stress (me especially that is). Need to lighten up, be more patient and tease out all the threads slowly. Lots more to learn, and many terms that I don't understand yet. Would take years without everyones help and encouragement here.


I don't really think Matt is stressed about eating the diet food. Issue I think more awareness that it's for his tics.

They all quite like the food, if only I can keep up the pace! You all know.

I often call them the three hungry vultures!

Caz I take my hat off to you with managing with five children to feed. I feel exhaused just thinking about it.


After much begging, games allowed starting tomorrow. Probably won't make that much difference anyway in view of the copious amount of TV watching lately, and certainly isn't a test.

However after his games fix, he is happy for no sceens for a week at some stage.


Not sure when we'll do it, as we just found out yesterday that he is booked in for surgery in 2 weeks. Only one or two nights in hospital BUT at least TWO MONTHS OFF ANY sport or contact activity.

Should be lots of fun. :wub:


Ausclare, I will therefore be watching even more carefully for your postings on the LCD tv screen. What brand did you buy? In the meantime, I'll take Claire's advice and check what sort of screen our lap top has.


Perth trip was fantastic. The boys had great fun & will have wonderful memories for life.

Still it seems that in our family, nothing is uneventful.

The night before actual competition day, we spent until 11 o'clock pm at Perth's Children hospital, after Matt cut his head open on a glass bedside table top! Lots's of blood and very scary at first, but thankfully nothing a bit of surgical glue couldn't take care of.

The group of us must have looked a sight in emergency dept. Matt, head at that stage covered in bandages by a nursse, concerned mother, two of the other mums being driver and navigator, and teacher. (taking photos for the school newsletter once we knew he was OK!)

Matt being a typical boy, took great delight in not washing his hair for as long as possible to make sure all his friends back home saw the glue and scar!

The competition was Tournament of the Minds, Matt competed in Maths/Engineering division and his twin brother in Social Sciences. (yes, very proud mum & dad)

Matts team didn't win a place but did a great job, and Pauls team came runners up.

Interesting that Matt's tics on the actual competition day in Perth weren't too bad. They were terrible on the day of the State Final. He didn't seem to notice, but I felt awful and wished he never started in the first place.

The next day he said that the most exciting moment of his life was hearing his teams name called out. So clearly the problem was with me, not him. You can't protect them and stop them trying challenges and experiences.


On the quota of new experiences by the years end, ENOUGH.

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Too weird....Chemar started a thread on Braintalk during our spring of last year and many many people had seen a worsening of tics.


There was lots of speculation as to the change of time, allergies in spring, etc...


Now I am very curious.


Congrats Marina, you have a right to be proud! Also, I think all laptops are LCDs---at least those made in the last 5 years. Sometimes the games themselves 'flash and flicker' and the rapid geometric/graphic movement causes issues. This is not just from observation, but the photosensitive epilepsy site commented on it.


The smaller the screen the better. We find 15" fine for us. We got a Samsung SyncMaster dual computer monitor with TV tuner for $450 here in the US.



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Hi Marina, we bought a Phillips Lcd TV, thank goodness for Harvey Norman 24months interest free!


I had a disturbing conversation with Connor's teacher yesterday.

I went in to explain that he'd had 2 days off for his tics and I mentioned that I thought it might have had something to do with an incident last week when he was doing peer support.

This is when gr 6 kids come into the class and take groups in the lower classes for "Peer Support".

His teacher said yes, she was amazed at how upset he'd been that day as his normal gr 6er wasn't there and another one had taken the group. Connor had been laughing and was asked to leave the room by the older child. This is the 1st time ever he has been punished like this as he is so easy going and co operative in class, even his teacher expressed how surprised she was, although I don't know where she was at the time.

He was so upset that his teacher ended up taking him to the staffroom to console him and stated to him that "boy his tic was really bad at this time". :)


I could not believe that she did not contact me to tell me of the incident, knowing full well how stress can affect the tics. On top of this on the same day, because his vocal tics were really bad, another child kept turning around to glare at him, which of course made things worse.

I was not informed of any of this until yesterday. When I bought it up.


Connor then told me this morning that he and another girl felt sick at school all day yesterday and that the teacher they had was an emergency teacher, he said it was the perfume that the teacher was wearing, that made them unwell.

When is society going to realise that it is unacceptable to have someone wearing strong perfumes in confined places. :wub:


In the Melbourne Child mag last month, they had an article on kids with death causing nut allergies. It was very informative and I thanked God we were not in that boat. This month there was a letter in this issue, from a parent complaining of the restrictions put on her child at school because they were unable to take nut products in their lunch and their child was a vegetarian. Fair enough, but no child ever died in a school yard due to vegetarianism.


Where is the common sense?


Sorry I'll hop off my soapbox!


Connor is back at school today, his tic is reducing since we talked abut things last night. So Stress does play a major part with these kids.

Marina have you got one twin that tics and one that doesn't?

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Hi Ausclare

Quick response because I should be working, but saw you are reading.

Incredible response from the teacher, but after years of managing my eldest son, not at all suprising.

Even now, while Matt is on elimination diet and says no to chocolate etc rewards from teachers, some push and have said, " Don't worry it's only one, or its only got natural ingredients".

I still rank my eldest sons 4th grade teacher as one of the most helpful in his life, and for the path we eventually followed..

She was supportive in anything I tried, and would tell me honestly (good and the ugly of what was happening). So at least I knew where we stood. I could tell you so many stories. I came to the conclusion that we had to work on the resiliance of our child because support from others is often just not there.

The battle with many teachers is same as the ones with doctors, although thankfully change is on its way.


Only one of the twins tics. Hopefully it will stay that way.

Matt happy go lucky type of kid, but wonder if puberty, and underlying competition with his brother an issue. With family history, still think food etc also has role to play.

Both very bright, have lots of friends and involved in everything, however Paul somewhat in the gifted range academically and this year everything he touches turns to pure gold. (only now are they becoming aware)

Often thought that their academic success was because normally they just don't eat the same amount of junk that other kids do.

In terms of behaviour I have often seen an effect in them, after parties etc.


Will have to go at least window shopping for TV.

Laptop only few months old so should be safe.

Matt although in denial about games, couldn't help himself (honest child that he is) in showing me the fineprint warning on the games handbook about them being a possible trigger for eplip & tics!

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I can't believe that the game manual mentioned it being a trigger for tics.


What type of game are they playing if you don't mind.


My kid is into games like utopia on the internet, and simulation games like warcraft and war of the ring(Lord of the Rings).


I am intregued now.


Ausclare, we had a similar incident last year with the tics, and kids imitating him etc. Didn't have the teacher incidents, as one of the teachers in the school had a kid with TS, so I think she helped smooth the waters, but regarding the other kids, apparently the girls in the class complained to the teacher about the whole thing, and said something to my kid about how awful it was for them to do that.


Anyway, they had a class meeting about something else, and when asked if anyone had anything else to discuss, my son said yes, and told everyone about TS, and why he does the quirky things, everyone was fascinated, and as far as I know, there has been no more teasing. Actually the kids all wanted to know more about it, and asked lots of questions, and have since been really supportive.


I used to think it was best to keep the "facts" out of it, and hope everyone just accepted my kid for who he was - I'm not so much into labels - but this experience taught me heeps, sometimes it is better out in the open.


Hope everything sorts itself out with your son



PS I tried the yum balls yesterday - they were a real hit.

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Virtually all the computer games (other than purely static educational ones) have warnings to stop if tics present themselves, and have for some time now.


Unfortunately, they are either very misinformed or very deceptive. They follow the warning with: because this may indicate photosensitive epilepsys, a rare disorder that affects 1 in 4000 people. They don't mention that 8% of the non-epileptic population has an abnormal neurological reaction to that same flicker. So people keep playing the games and end up with no seizures, but instead chronic tic disorders. I posted a link on this in a couple of my TV/computer threads.


Since such sensitivity develops over time, parents won't even notice it right away anyway. By then, the games are ingrained. :wub:




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This will be our biggest challenge as I have said before. I guess I feel soooooo bad being so restrictive anyway, that I don't want to take away his last love!!!


He will be computer free all weekend as his has other plans, but it is hard when you are trying so many things at once to confirm which one works....



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Hi Caz,


A weekend isn't enough to know whether this works anyway. It really does take longer than that--according to the input so far.


I wasn't pushing you to do this--- I was just answering your question on the game warnings. Sorry if it came across that way.



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Hi Caz

I went through every game and they each have the same warning on the inside cover of the instruction manual, including

"Consult your doctor before playing video games if you have an epileptic condition or immediately should you experience any of the following symptoms during play: dizziness, altered vision, muscle twitching, other involuntary movements, loss of awareness of your surroundings, mental confusion, and / or convulsions.


In view of Claire information on how many affected, how scary, especially when you consider the pace of the latter games.

Why isn't it more of a big deal as a health issue!


Matt started back on video games last night and tonight his tics are substantially worse. Saturaday night will be a full on session, as he is having a sleepover at his best friends house who has a NEW GAME.

He has nominated next Wednesday to start 7 day trial of no screens.


He told me he was upset that games could even be implicated, so the pressure is on, and I know where you're coming from. I've made sure I've told him that its for a shor time.

He insists that his neck roll tic is not a tic at all, but just part of a tight neck.

I have scheduled a trip to the Osteopath for next week (worth it just in case, and also to make him feel better)


I thought a camping trip at Xmas may be a good idea.


I checked out the LCD tvs, and the salesperson told me that flicker especially from fluro lights was a major trigger for his migrane headaches.


Today I recieved two things in the mail :wub:

1. An appointment notice from the Royal Children's hospital that I requested when the sypmtoms first appeared. (appointment mid Jan)

2. A package from Latitudes, with all their newsletters.

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Let us know how the no screens week goes. We are still working on it!!?????!!


Interesting about the fluro lights - I often wondered about them when all this tv/screens thing came up. If migranes can be linked to them, then other neurological stuff must be too. All schools here have them, and they often flicker. Even the room we have the computer at home has a fluro light. Not at the flickering stage. Actually now I think even our family room is one of those circular fluro's. HOpefully those wont have to go...




How is failsafe going? I am exhausted from all the cooking. Every night I am baking stuff for lunch box treats. Kids are sick of pear jam sandwiches.



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Just a quick comment here that may be helpful


although my son's reaction to screen flicker is not intense, he does react significantly to fluorescent light and also to the TV on in a darkened room (movie theatres too) He seems ok with his LCD monitor


Anyway, we use those "daylight" lamps, and as long as it is on in the room, he doesnt seem to rect as much to the TV flicker.


I sympathise greatly with you all who are facing an unhappy kid re "no screens"

My son is 15, and simply states that life without his games is NO LIFE <_<


Thankfully tho he made the decision to stick with games on his computer with the LCD screen rather than the consoles on the TV , and he also avoids "explosive" games as he knows they set him off


Trips to the movie theater are also not a very frequent occurrance as that really sets him off big time......we think it is the combination of the intense light changes in a darkened theatre, PLUS the sound intensity, and who knows what chemicals etc in the theatre.

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We got rid of every flourescent bulb in our home! Surely the flickering ones are the worse, but even the others have the same 'invisible flicker' as the CRT screens. The normal incandescent bulbs don't seem to have this impact.


In Germany (I forget the country, I posted the comment from Dr. Doris Rapp's book), they did a study replacing fluorescent lights with full spectrum daylight bulbs in the classroom, and ADHD went down 30%! (no link to this, it is just Dr. Rapp's book).


At Chemar's suggestion re the daylight bulbs last year, I bought them for every room in our house. It was not cheap--we have way too many fixtures! If you can only afford one thing, I recommend the LCD monitor though.


For any TV/computer viewing, LCD or otherwise, even better is to have it near a big window with real daylight coming in!


Re the 'teen screen' trade-off, I think the most important thing is for both you and the teen/pre-teen both to know exactly what the impact is, thus why I keep raising the week of no screens. After this, like Chemar and her son, as a family you can decide what to do about it. I still think that lowering my son's mercury through antioxidants, plus simply time away from the screens contributed to his current increasing tolerance of LCDs, which we used to have to limit. Of course, we have limits for general health reasons anyway--to encourage other interests and fitness.


Marina, good luck with Wednesday. Don't shoot me for mentioning this, but the week is a guideline. You WILL see improvement by then and be able to determine if this is a factor or not--that is the main goal of this. However, if he continues to improve daily, with even more improvement on the last day of the week, you MIGHT go another day or two until no more improvement is seen to find out his true 'no screen' baseline before experimenting with what he can handle. This is not required to make the overall determination, but it might help to see exactly how much he can improve--but only if you still still continuing improvement on the last day, vs it having leveled off. So far, I don't think anyone has run longer than a week for the test though.


Also, if the tics improve and you reintroduce the screens, sometimes the effect is same day, other times it takes a few days to accumulate again. In a lot of ways this is like food impact on the neurological system, except that the response to elimination is much faster than removing artificial ingredients. We did 15 min of LCD every other day, then 30 min every other day. And if this works, do try static games initially (Sims, Roller Coaster Tycoon) vs the 'explosive' games, as Chemar calls them. One step at a time to find out his tolerance level.


Importantly, if it does work, I think the 5 families who have since reintroduced screens successfully at a later time have treated yeast/gut issues and/or mercury issues. But with efgh and our case, I wonder if just time away from CRT screens while the brain was developing was a factor. I just hate that this generation has this up close proximaty to flickering screens during the developmental years. It scares me that it might create permanent changes. This fear, right or wrong (since I have no scientific data other than extrapolation of other facts to speculate), is what made me so rigid with my son. If he showed a tic reaction, it was simply not allowed. But that put a burden on me to find out how else to entertain him (e.g. inviting lots of friends over, with no screens allowed during playdates, thus finding friends whose lives didn't revolve around the computer/TV) and learning how to heal him. Though I admit, for 2 years, this was all we did--purely out of ignorance--since I didn't know there were ways to reduce the intolerance.


You can see this topic can always get me going...!



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