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Does your PANDAS kid display high IQ qualities?  

55 members have voted

  1. 1. How bright is your PANDA? (You can choose more than one answer.)

    • Too young for school, but has done exceptional things (elaborate in a response)
      4
    • Seems to catch on to concepts quickly, if only behaviors didn't get in the way
      21
    • Actually tested as "gifted" or "high IQ"
      20
    • Participates in a "gifted" school cirriculum
      12
    • Would participate in "gifted" school cirriculum, if not for current behaviors interfering with performance
      10
    • I'm not the most impartial of respondents, but my PANDA is the New Einstein, even though he's in a regular cirriculum
      4
    • My PANDA is in a standard cirriculum and does well
      8
    • My PANDA struggles academically, in and out of exacerbation
      5


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I know we have explored this topic before informally, and I keep running across posts in the forum that seem to indicate that many, many of our kids are bright little boogers!

 

So, I thought I'd start a poll and see if that's a mis-impression, or if it is a real finding. Plus, I know Dr. K.'s web site links mathematic acumen in families with PANDAS tendencies, etc.

 

And then that's led me to want to know something about the science, and I'm hoping some of you scientifically-minded folks can chime in.

 

Certainly, nobody would make the argument that inflammation encourages or feeds intellect, right? So, that's off the table. What might be some commonalities at play, then? Are dopamine, CamKII, or any of the other brain chemicals we associate with PANDAS thought to be associated with intelligence? Or could the blood brain barrier be involved somehow, with "brain food" nutrients more readily absorbed by our kids than the non-PANDAS variety?

 

Or is it all just a coincidence?

Edited by MomWithOCDSon
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i did vote...ds could be in honors math if he wasn't busy being the class clown...

he does help other kids with math when they break into small group

we used to fight for hours about homework....now it has completely flipped to homework being done before he gets home from school....

i don't want to give him all the credit...teach says this is one of the best classes she's ever had and they do their homework..as they wait for dismissel..

she has never seen it before......so he may just be trying to be like his peers......

but if something isn't done, on his own he remembers to do it, or when i 'm doing homework with other kid

 

I know we have explored this topic before informally, and I keep running across posts in the forum that seem to indicate that many, many of our kids are bright little boogers!

 

So, I thought I'd start a poll and see if that's a mis-impression, or if it is a real finding. Plus, I know Dr. K.'s web site links mathematic acumen in families with PANDAS tendencies, etc.

 

And then that's led me to want to know something about the science, and I'm hoping some of you scientifically-minded folks can chime in.

 

Certainly, nobody would make the argument that inflammation encourages or feeds intellect, right? So, that's off the table. What might be some commonalities at play, then? Are dopamine, CamKII, or any of the other brain chemicals we associate with PANDAS thought to be associated with intelligence? Or could the blood brain barrier be involved somehow, with "brain food" nutrients more readily absorbed by our kids than the non-PANDAS variety?

 

Or is it all just a coincidence?

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Certainly, nobody would make the argument that inflammation encourages or feeds intellect, right?

 

 

remember the john travolta movie that he sudden has outrageous intellect and motivation. then they discover he has a tumor that is causing differences in his brain. i've wondered about this b/c isn't it such a small, small percentage of our brains that we actually use?

 

i don't know that i've seen anyone report a 'back to normal' from giftedness when they're kids are healthier.

Edited by smartyjones
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My girls go to a public montessori program so they have a lot of room to work above grade level if they need to so I'm not positive about my kids. dd8 is an excellent reader for her age and very good at math if she does not get stressed out but she's not in advanced classes at school. dd7 can't pass her subtraction test because she can't do it fast enough so they won't even give her anything else and she's so sick of subtraction. I think she'd be very advanced if she cared but she lives in her own little world and could care less about most things except learning to read. She just does the minimum and then goes off on her own.

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Certainly, nobody would make the argument that inflammation encourages or feeds intellect, right?

 

 

remember the john travolta movie that he sudden has outrageous intellect and motivation. then they discover he has a tumor that is causing differences in his brain. i've wondered about this b/c isn't it such a small, small percentage of our brains that we actually use?

 

i don't know that i've seen anyone report a 'back to normal' from giftedness when they're kids are healthier.

 

 

Here is one comment about your "back to normal" comment. My ds9 possible PANDAS was at his worst as far as PANDAS symptoms at age four. Around this time and into age five he became very very interested in anything space related. He studied adult space books and had memorized all the planets in their order from the sun. Then he also memorized all the moons to each planet. And there are a lot of those. His PANDAS symptoms are in my opinion very mild, and there is no way he has either the desire or capacity to memorize such facts now. I really thought he would have Asperger's because of all the overly intellectual behavior at that time.

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My little guy is only 2 1/2, so he's too young for school, but he's always tested above his peers. At his 2 year old ck up he was his milestones were consistent with an average to above average 3 year old! He was using full sentences (4-5 words) before 18 months, by his second birthday he could identify about 20 different dinosaur species (not just the popular ones like the T-rex, but things like the ankylasaurus, archiopterix, and he could tell the difference between various types of raptors), tell you wether they were herbivores or carnivores (and he knew what that meant!), and in some cases what family they belonged to (hadrasaur, therapod, etc...) He's been able to recognize his letters and numbers, even when placed in random order. And just last week he amazed his day care teachers when they were working on recognizing the letters in their own name, he not only recognized his name, he read the names or several classmates without prompting or hints. He even "reads" some of his favorite books - we know that it's mostly memorization from reading them over and over, but he's able to pick up old favorites that we haven't read in quite some time and "read" them word for word so we now suspect that he's picking up some basic reading. He's actually ahead of our 4 year old on many developmental levels.

 

For those of you with talented kids - what type of schools do you have them in?

My hubby and I were just discussing last night what we should ultimately do for school for him. It came up since we're chosing a Pre-K for our daughter and evaluating various options for school for her (public vs private vs charter). We're especially sensitive to what is going to be best for him because we don't want his PANDAS to hold him back from the exceptional things we know he can do!

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I have always thought about this topic.... My DD7 is very bright/ tested gifted... even in exasperation she does well... except when concentration or rages or OCD get in the way.... but she can ususally pull it together to get though school and homework....

 

My DS10 is bright but did not test gifted.. I have always thought that his PANDAS does get in his way... concentration is very hard for him in exasperation and his OCD things make school work hard to get through (asking/checking) .... I have been wondering about how to chart his progress recently as he was in full blown exasperation from november to mid Jan.... He has made all A's all year but it has been a struggle- when we were moving from winter to pring I was comfortable that he was doing well - 95% baseline... but then allergy season hit... and the kid cant concentrate again and cant spell!!!! he was getting 100% to 100% + on tests and this spring he is bringing home near failing spelling papers! so.... needless to say I think it is complicated... with him even in big exasperation he did well (but I attribute this to his teachers understanding and making accomodations... also I think the handwriting OCD (erase/rewrite senario) forced him to think about the words and or numbers) just a theory in my head and I am a bit tired so it might make no sense to anyone but me....

 

also is there a way to vote 2 x's on poll... for another child?

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My ds6 works at the 6th grade level in all major subjects and pretty much works independently within a regular 1st grade classroom, though they do have the special education teacher work with him 1-on-1 a few times per week to introduce new concepts, etc. He has always been about 4-5 years ahead of grade level, reading before he was 2 years old, etc. Sounds weird to say but it's actually true.

 

My ds3 works at around the K-1st grade level. Not quite as advanced as his brother but always way ahead of his peers.

 

I think there is something weird about the math skills stuff. Ds6 is one of those guys who does long multiplication in his head, and I have always been really gifted in math too. In college I took all of these advanced math and physics classes as my "guts" because I never needed to work at them. On the flip side, though I also learned to read very early, I have been a very slow reader as an adult - it takes me forever to get through written material. Not sure what that's about, but literature classes always took a lot out of me time-wise.

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Could it be that the OCD causes them to be able to tune in to details and how things work more than non-OCD kids? Just a thought.

I don't know about that. We've had OCD in our house for the last several year, and it is definitely a double-edged sword when it comes to "tuning in on details." It seems to help to a degree, but then it can become a detriment, at least for our DS13. He will obsess on one particular detail of the assignment or information, and this will cause him to miss the big picture or to forego another corner of the assignment because all his focus goes in that one sector.

 

There does seem to be a correlation between math skills and OCD, though; and math skills (deterioration of) and PANDAS. I've seen those relationships mentioned more than once in the literature.

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I have three kids with PANDAS. 12,10, & 9 years old. I was only able to vote once and the kids are different. The 12 yo is exrememly bright - rocket scientist bright. He has ceilinged out on the tests he has been given etc. He is in the gifted and talented program but is still bored with that. The 10 yo is also very bright. He is in the gifted and talented program at school also. The 9 yo is in regular classes and does well. He has not been tested for the gifted and talented program but I do not think he will be in it. He does very well in regular classes but I don't think he is up there like his brothers.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Dr K's site says that the kids have very early language development, and the mother has math/science skills. Also says the mom may be OCD herself. While I don't have ANY OCD, I was a math and computer science major, and my pandas son said his first word at 4 months. I felt like I was reading my horoscope on Dr K's site. At 11 months, he was mocking me in short sentences, and voices. At 23 months I was coloring with him and my daughter, he was going through a "potty mouth" phase. My daughter made a picture that was all one color, and I said "hey, that one's monochromatic. mono means one and chromo means color"- my son was making race car tracks (and noises)with his crayons , just scribbling (he isn't even two), not listening to us - or so I thought. We talk and color for 5-10 more minutes. At the end he comes over with his paper to me. "Mommy, I made a special picture for you" "Awww honey, thank you, come show me"..."Here, (laughing) it's ca-ca chromatic".

 

He thinks differently. Does incredible math in his head-frustrating because the kids get more credit for "show your work" section, which he consistently forgets to fill in. Gets concepts quickly, but doesn't pay attention enough now that it is getting harder(5th grade), he is missing too much to figure it out on his own. And if is really easy, he panics and over thinks it..."they can't possibly be asking for THAT...must be something I don't know.." Most of it he rushes and makes carless errors. He doesn’t really care to impress the teachers or prove what he can do (or so it appears).He goes through phases of interests quickly. Gets to his level of what he wants to know, and, on to something else. Extremely socially aware.

 

His teachers have said "we would be astounded if he isn't incredibly gifted, but SOMETHING is getting in the way of his learning". "ADHD?" I ask. "We don't think so, not sure what it is". We are in the middle of an assessment with a psychologist that knows both giftedness and learning disabilities. Many kids are both -twice exceptional it’s called. or 2(e). Its probably the pandas, but we might be able to give him some tools to help with conventional methods. I'd be hard pressed to medicate for ADD though, I feel the pandas is messing with his brain chemistry enough.

 

I wonder how many pandas kids also have ADD? And what came first? Are they bright because they have pandas ( their brains are working differently), or is their intelligence a risk factor? I think we assume the later, but who knows for sure since most of us in retrospect think some of those "quirky" behaviors our kids have had forever were subclinical symptoms?

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