inappropriate behaviors

[michele]

I am very upset because my 8 year old TS/ADHD son is engaging in inapproriate behaviors and impulse problems. He seems to regulate his self better from having rage issues with risperdal but now he is overly focused on inappropriate talk and gestures. He uses bad words like butt, weiner, penis, and does bad things like expose himself or touches my chest or talks about sexy or kissing, making out. I have a three year old girl so his behaviors are scaring me. I worry about leaving him in a room with her alone plus he is teaching her bad things. He even seems to get overly close to the dog laying and kissing on her. I am so upset about this. Yesterday he peed on the bathroom walls and floor at school. It was his idea and a teacher heard him from the hall. In the past he has peed in the trash cans, registers, put poop on things using his fingers to get it out. Have other parents had issues with their TS kids doing bad things like this? He bent over and showed his bare bottom to my eight year old this morning. His tics are better on tenex. His obsessions are still strong about getting things and collections. The attention and impulse are a huge problem. We tried stimulants but he seemed to get worse on them. We see a psychiatrist and psychologist but this is really hard on the family. I myself have rheumatoid arthritis and have been having alot of trouble with inflammation. My husband is not as involved with this as he should be and leaves it all up to me. Any suggestions to deal with these difficult behaviors? I don't see people here complaining alot about behaviors or moods and wonder if it is not an issue for most TS kids?

 

Michele

Edited April 9, 2010 by michele

[faith]

Hi Michele,

I wouldn't say these are necessarily behaviors of just 'TS' alone. Forgive me, but I'm not recalling, did you say he also asbergers or you once thought? My thought is that all kids at one point say and do things, its just that you have to look at the appropriateness, the timing, and how often these things go on. I mean, I've heard my 10-11 year old say the word sex, and I don't like it, because I know he doesn't even know what it means. I've also heard the word for male part more times than I care to, but I don't feel it was excessive or inappropriate, its just what boys will say sometimes, they think everyting is funny and of course will say things for fun or attention especially when friends are around. We had a sleepover recently with several boys, and oh my, how I didn't wind up cutting it short and sending everyone home. .... but it was in the context of 4 boys hving a 'boys night out'....but I did give them a lecture on how its not appropriate to say words like that especially in front of girls or ladies, and that I would be letting all the moms know what went on.....

 

The behaviors you describe about the peeing sounds like he just doesn't understand that it is inappropriate, or he is expressing somehow that he doesn't care., so yes, could be a problem there. But in answer to your question about others with TS displaying this type behaviors, I'm going to say no, nothing I would think odd for a boy of his age. I'm pretty sure he knows exactly what is right and not acceptable.

 

do you sit in with him when at the psychiatrist or psychologist? it might be a good thing to be in on some of the talks and see what he is saying and how he responds to talking about this? Really don't know what else to advise tho......

 

 

Faith

[Chemar]

hi Michele

 

coprolalia (inappropriate words) is a recognized TS tic.

Not well understood but nevertheless a tic and as with all tics, involuntary

 

touching and inappropriate gestures can also sometimes be tics

http://www.tourettesyndrome.net/Files/CommonTics.PDF

 

 

 

here is some helpful info re behavior and neurological disorders in kids

http://www.tourettesyndrome.net/behavior.htm

 

if there is also Aspergers then behavior/mood issues can be more intense

 

Cognitive Behavioral Therapy can really help a lot with teaching coping mechanisms and social skills, but one does have to find a therapist who also understands the involuntary nature of TS tics and the association with OCD etc. Trying to suppress a tic can often result in a more explosive release...so the therapist needs to know how to teach the child to be able to still release the tic, while covering the socially unacceptable expression

[michele]

Faith,

This is more then just a few words here and there. It is constant throughout the day everyday from AM to PM. We recently spent a week wih grandparents and they were really concerned. I grew up with a brother but this is much more extreme and impulsive fascination of body parts. I think it is coprolalia. I don't see it mentioned here much. We are with a therapist who deals with Aspergers but I don't know how much he sees tourettes. It seems hard to find anyone on our plan with tourettes or aspergers experience. I think he may suppress tics at school and then becomes more explosive at home. I am confused as to what are tics, or compulsions. We are in social group with a different therapist. He is possible aspergers but doesn't really fit the criteria completely on hospital speech testing and the school doesn't see it and he has the fixed interests and he has the feeling people are against him or mean. Moods are definately intense and can be explosive. How do we deal with him? The OT at school said she didn't think they were tics because he doesn't do it at school and he would not be able to hold them in. I desputed her and said he may be doing them in gym or recess or loud places and they might not notice. How are other parents dealing with these bad actions even if they are involuntary?

hi Michele

 

coprolalia (inappropriate words) is a recognized TS tic.

Not well understood but nevertheless a tic and as with all tics, involuntary

 

touching and inappropriate gestures can also sometimes be tics

http://www.tourettesyndrome.net/Files/CommonTics.PDF

 

 

 

here is some helpful info re behavior and neurological disorders in kids

http://www.tourettesyndrome.net/behavior.htm

 

if there is also Aspergers then behavior/mood issues can be more intense

 

Cognitive Behavioral Therapy can really help a lot with teaching coping mechanisms and social skills, but one does have to find a therapist who also understands the involuntary nature of TS tics and the association with OCD etc. Trying to suppress a tic can often result in a more explosive release...so the therapist needs to know how to teach the child to be able to still release the tic, while covering the socially unacceptable expression

[faith]

I wonder if there is any such thing as a symptom being like 'sexual fixation' or something to that effect?

Michelle, if you feel you havn't found any therapist in your plan for what you are dealing with, there is a way to advocate with the insurance company to find you someone, and if they can't, then you can try to get someone not in the plan and have them cover it. I will pm you with some info.

[Chemar]

I am confused as to what are tics, or compulsions.

 

many people with Tourette Syndrome exhibit a type of blending or morphing of tics and OCD where a tic can become OCDish and an OCD symptom can trigger a specific type of related tic. A doctor we saw some years back showed me research related to this "subtype" of OCD unique to people with TS and called it "Tourettic" OCD

 

 

 

 

 

How are other parents dealing with these bad actions even if they are involuntary?

 

as mentioned in my other post above, Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT) is I think one of the very best ways to help kids with neurological disorders that manifest with difficult behaviors. It helps them find coping skills without having to suppress

 

my son had very severe TS when younger and he manifest full blown coprolalia, which shocked me no end as we are not a cussy family and he wasnt exposed to bad language from TV or movies, only peers at a smaller church school.

The CBT really helped him find sounds to make to cover the words he felt compelled to say. One cannot tell someone with coprolalia to not do it...that only makes that urge to do the tic stronger, as with any tic suppressed. My son's therapist helped him disguise the words with other sounds so he still had the release of the tic, but no one knew what he was saying and thought it was just one of his other vocal tics

 

as a mom who hates bad language ...............it was very hard for me to accept it and let him release privately at home. But I had to learn that, again as with any tic, he needed to have a safe place to let it out, and that he wasnt trying to use bad language...it was like any tic...there and needing to be released!

 

as he learned more CBT, so even at home it became less bothersome

 

the CBT really is a very good treatment....

just be sure to "interview" the therapist yourself first before taking your child to first appt.

 

as a Mom you will quickly know if this person will be able to communicate with your child well. You may have to try a few till you find a "fit"...but the benefits are really worth it IMHO...not just temporarily but also because it teaches the person lifelong skills and enables them to basically do their own therapy in future because of the techniques they learn.

Edited April 10, 2010 by Chemar
quotes corrected

[smartyjones]

michelle - i am usually on the pandas board but saw your post in the recent line. do you have any experience or interest with homeopathic medicine? my son has pandas and in exacerbation will display some similar behaviors. he's only 5, so more minor than what you describe b/c he just doesn't know but along the same lines. as i'm writing this i remember my husband carrying him out of a shoe store at age 4.5 with new, unpaid shoes on b/c he kept yelling "butt, butt, poop" repeatedly and would not stop.

 

for him, there is an infection triggered issue. i'm not sure where it falls btwn strep, yeast or whatever else. when i found the remedy hyoscyamus, i was stunned - the description was like i had written out his troublesome behaviors. i do believe it has helped.

 

pm me if you want any more info.

Edited April 10, 2010 by smartyjones

[kengela]

michelle, I was just wondering if some of the sexual behaviors could be side effects from one of his medications? Im sure Ive heard of sexual side effects from more than one similar medications,maybe someone with experience with his meds will post some comments. I will keep you in my prayers, it must be so hard having to worry not only for him but the thought of you being scared to leave him alone with your 3yr old just makes my heart ache for you. I hope you find some helpful advice soon, there sure seems to be alot of that here. I looked briefly at your profile,but not back too far I was wondering if youve tried any of the more natural therapies or diet changes talked about so much here? Angela

[abbe]

Hello,

 

 

My son Nicholas is 8 and he does alot of "sexual" things also. He is fascinated with the male and female anatomy . I have to be honest though I never once looked at these behaviors as tic related what so ever. I haven't had him do anything inappropriate with pee or poop but he would take his cloths off when he was younger , in our house and say some pretty unexpected things sexually. I really don't feel like it is a tic though because he knows full well what he is saying and when he is saying it. He never says anything when he shouldn't. I just wanted to put my two cents in. He is my third son and I feel just "sexual" in nature. Some boys have a higher sex drive then others.

 

 

abbe

[tpotter]

Michele

 

I'm not sure why you got over to the PANDAS side of the forum, but maybe it's a good thing (or did you cross post it?) Anyway, my son, who is now diagnosed with PANDAS, was doing inappropriate sexual touching (grabbing my breast, touching my husband's and my other son's privates, etc.) when he first got sick. We took him to the Ped. Neurologist, and after I kept pushing, he was finally had an eeg (has had several since.) Turned out he had fronto-temporal lobe seizure activity (they actually never "proved" that the behaviors were associated, but there was definitely a lot of seizure activity. Frontal lobe controls mood, and temporal lobe is impulse control and sexual activity. When he was put on anti-seizure meds, it definitely helped!

 

Fast forward a few years. Problems continued, and even got WAY worse. Tics, OCD, impulse control, etc. (but the sexual stuff, thank goodness stayed improved, and he's still on anti-seizure meds, specifically Lamictal, which also helps with mood stabilization...we know for sure it's helping, because we did a challenge once by taking him off...all the symptoms worsened.) We finally found a doctor to dx him (but didn't completely tx him, and so we had to switch.) He has now had a round of IVIG and PEX, and I have to tell you, it made a world of difference (he's also still being treated for seizures, as well, though.)

 

IF the problem is PANDAS, our neurologist has found that psych meds do NOT work on tics, OCD, etc (although many parents have found that ERP and CBT do definitely help.

 

did your son's problems come on suddenly (even if not, that doesn't rule it out.) Was there any infection prior (such as strep, ear, nose, etc? There are a lot more things to look for. If you haven't already, check out that PANDAS forum, and see what you think. I would also definitely suggest you speak with your Ped. neurologist about the possibility of seizure activity, particularly in the temporal lobe. If he balks, tell him what I said about my son. Our neurologist at the time also balked, but the reality was, that after pushing, there really was extensive seizure activity, and it definitely improved with anti-seizure meds.

 

Good luck. And, let me know what you find out.

 

TP

[Chemar]

Michele

 

I'm not sure why you got over to the PANDAS side of the forum, but maybe it's a good thing (or did you cross post it?)

 

???I am not seeing this thread cross posted on the PANDAS forum, or am I missing finding it there?

[michele]

I did not post over on PANDAS side. I do think his original tics came on after strep and high fevers however that was seven years ago. He has had an immune connection to his episodes however, antibiotics, diets and supplements have never taken away the symptoms completely although they have increased after illness and immunizations. His biggest issues are ADHD and impulse behaviors and tics/compulsions. Caryn had a point. I have been giving him antibiotics daily for awhile. Maybe the yeast has taken over and is causing the bad behaviors. I am going to return to kefir and probiotics like I used to give him. Right now his allergies are acting up and that seems to corespond to an increase in symptoms. We are going for a PET scan Wed. and maybe this will show something. Dr. Chugani will do it. I am nervous but hope it will give us some answers. I will look into therapy for the tics. I went on the OCD sight and none of the local Dr's listed were on our plan.

 

Michele

Michele

 

I'm not sure why you got over to the PANDAS side of the forum, but maybe it's a good thing (or did you cross post it?)

 

???I am not seeing this thread cross posted on the PANDAS forum, or am I missing finding it there?

[Chemar]

hi Michele

 

if he has been on antibiotics without probiotics then that could definitely cause a problem

 

I wish doctors were regulated to have to rx probiotics whenever they write a script for the antis

[Santi]

I am very upset because my 8 year old TS/ADHD son is engaging in inapproriate behaviors and impulse problems. He seems to regulate his self better from having rage issues with risperdal but now he is overly focused on inappropriate talk and gestures. He uses bad words like butt, weiner, penis, and does bad things like expose himself or touches my chest or talks about sexy or kissing, making out. I have a three year old girl so his behaviors are scaring me. I worry about leaving him in a room with her alone plus he is teaching her bad things. He even seems to get overly close to the dog laying and kissing on her. I am so upset about this. Yesterday he peed on the bathroom walls and floor at school. It was his idea and a teacher heard him from the hall. In the past he has peed in the trash cans, registers, put poop on things using his fingers to get it out. Have other parents had issues with their TS kids doing bad things like this? He bent over and showed his bare bottom to my eight year old this morning. His tics are better on tenex. His obsessions are still strong about getting things and collections. The attention and impulse are a huge problem. We tried stimulants but he seemed to get worse on them. We see a psychiatrist and psychologist but this is really hard on the family. I myself have rheumatoid arthritis and have been having alot of trouble with inflammation. My husband is not as involved with this as he should be and leaves it all up to me. Any suggestions to deal with these difficult behaviors? I don't see people here complaining alot about behaviors or moods and wonder if it is not an issue for most TS kids?

 

Michele

Hi Michelle, my son (age 7) has the same diagnosis and some extra ones. He has done (and still does) everything you mention here. His inappropriate language goes in waves. I feel sometimes that it is part of his tics or OCD and he really can't stop. He also shows early signs of sexual behaviors that come and go. We try not to make a big deal about it. But we do talk about better word choices and that other people will think "weird thoughts" if he says bad words or pulls his pants down in front of others. These things all pass eventually and they are replaced with new behaviors to worry about. The important thing to remember is not to make a big deal about it and address it calmly when there is a talkable moment. Good Luck! Andrea