Large Hives associated with strep?

[AmySLP]

I haven't posted on the board in quite sometime. My 5 1/2 y/o daughter has been free of PANDAS symtpoms for nearly a year. There has been an outbreak of chronic strep in her classroom at school, primarily 2 kids with recurrent strep, but the nurse said there has been 6 total (my daughter unbelieveably not being one of them). My daughter has not shown any of the symptoms she had last year (facial tics, vocal tics, OCD behaviors) at all-she has though in fact had some random fevers, ironically they seem to come the same day I get the note from school that there is a new case of strep in the class. Two nights ago she had a huge hive on her face, this morning an hour ago at 4am she awoke with large, welt-like hives on her arms and legs. She has had somewhat chronic mildly bloody noses, and more so the last few days. My pediatrician has not felt we should test her for strep b/c he feels she would demonstrate the PANDAS symptoms and we would obviously know. SHe now has these "soft" symptoms that make me wonder if she should be cultured for strep. The school nurse has called me twice, wondering if Allison is a "carrier" of strep and that's the reason the class is having this problem-my pediatrician says no way b/c if she had strep she would be symptomatic, but now I'm wondering if these are symptoms. She is so difficult to get a throat culture from-she has so much fear of "the stick" as she calls it-She likely had about 30 throat cultures in the 6 month period that we battled strep and PANDAS.

 

I'd appreciated any input you all have if your child has experienced anything similar. Thanks, Amy

Edited March 26, 2010 by AmySLP

[smartyjones]

pediatrician has not felt we should test her for strep b/c he feels she would demonstrate the PANDAS symptoms and we would obviously know. SHe now has these "soft" symptoms that make me wonder if she should be cultured for strep.

my pediatrician says no way b/c if she had strep she would be symptomatic, but now I'm wondering if these are symptoms.

 

 

amy - i'm glad to hear you've been enjoying a good remission!

it's sounds to me that these could very well be symptoms - just not typical symptoms of strep -- we all know that's the thing - most of our kids do not react typically to strep! i know it sounds hard b/c she hates the culture, but i'd advise to do it.

good luck.

Edited March 26, 2010 by smartyjones

[thereishope]

Both my PANDAS son and my non-PANDAS daughter have gotten hives with viruses before. Not with known strep, though. I've been told by more than one dr, that some kids get hives when they are sick because that's how their body is trying rid the infection? I know, for my kids, it was not a reaction to food or anything. It was definitely a reaction to a virus.

 

So, your daughter is probably sick with something. The question is what. Or is she getting them from exposure only? Personally, I don't see the ahrm in doing a strep test. Besides, irritating the child, it's a swab. It doesn't run the risk of anything bad happening. I don't understand why doctor make a big deal out of a throat swab.

 

Also, something to remember, is that PANDAS kids's bodies exhibit being sick different than other kids. Strep w/o symptoms. My son has had croup w/o the cough. Some kids have alergies w/o mounting an allergic response. Even with son's seasonal allergies...in the last 3 years, they had different physical symptoms of the allergies. Same time of year, same allergies, different reactions.

 

One more thing.....with strep....the test may not come up + (even if she has it) until she's had it for 3-5 days. That's where I've found grief with swabbing with exposure. If they contracted strep today, they may not get a + test yet. You have to strategize the best time to swab.

[Kayanne]

Sorry....didn't read the whole thread...but I wanted to say that my son (then around 15 mos old) broke out in hives when he had a strep throat. It was his only symptom.

 

One of the peds in our practice, told me that strep can effect the skin in many types of rashes/reactions.

[colleenrn]

I would definitely do a throat culture b/c so many times children with PANDAS have such atypical symptoms. My kids get rashes with strep (not hives but also not the typical scarlatinaform rash).

 

The doctor is so wrong about having to show symptoms with strep. None of my kids have any physical symptoms with strep.

 

There is so much strep in your daughter's class that it is very possible that is what you are dealing with.

 

Good luck!

Colleen

[Buster]

Hi Amy,

 

Our child had fairly chronic bloody noses and this did seem to be correlated with symptoms. It wasn't possible for us to determine if this was just high blood pressure and then "picking" at the nose or something else. It seemed correlated with giving Advil but again tough to tell. Anyway, yes, on the bloody nose.

 

On the hives/nodules, there's a lot of things that could be. Are they very pink or are they sort of soft and movable? Do they seem mostly over the bones/joints or spread out. Did you notice a rash on the body? About how big were/are they -- are they about 1/2 inch or about an inch or smaller. Often hives are from an allergic reaction to new soap or detergent or ... -- but if you also have symptoms of strep the hives could be tied to ARF and hence something to pay a lot of attention to.

 

Regards,

 

Buster

 

 

I haven't posted on the board in quite sometime. My 5 1/2 y/o daughter has been free of PANDAS symtpoms for nearly a year. There has been an outbreak of chronic strep in her classroom at school, primarily 2 kids with recurrent strep, but the nurse said there has been 6 total (my daughter unbelieveably not being one of them). My daughter has not shown any of the symptoms she had last year (facial tics, vocal tics, OCD behaviors) at all-she has though in fact had some random fevers, ironically they seem to come the same day I get the note from school that there is a new case of strep in the class. Two nights ago she had a huge hive on her face, this morning an hour ago at 4am she awoke with large, welt-like hives on her arms and legs. She has had somewhat chronic mildly bloody noses, and more so the last few days. My pediatrician has not felt we should test her for strep b/c he feels she would demonstrate the PANDAS symptoms and we would obviously know. SHe now has these "soft" symptoms that make me wonder if she should be cultured for strep. The school nurse has called me twice, wondering if Allison is a "carrier" of strep and that's the reason the class is having this problem-my pediatrician says no way b/c if she had strep she would be symptomatic, but now I'm wondering if these are symptoms. She is so difficult to get a throat culture from-she has so much fear of "the stick" as she calls it-She likely had about 30 throat cultures in the 6 month period that we battled strep and PANDAS.

 

I'd appreciated any input you all have if your child has experienced anything similar. Thanks, Amy

[AmySLP]

Buster,

Thanks so much for your response...the hives are huge, welt-like. The initial night they were on her joints/bony areas (back/front of knees, elbows and one shoulder near the joint). The day previous there was one on her face. SHe seems to break out from them approx. 12 hours after a dose of bendryl. She slept for about 13 hours (5pm-6am this AM after the 4:40pm dose of benedryl yesterday PM). Woke this morning with more hives, even larger and more plentiful in places other thatn the joints (front of thigh, forearm ,buttocks, neck/shoulder region). I treated with half the dose (1 tsp of bendryl) which are keeping them at bay without making her extremely fatigued (She wanted so desperately to go to an Easter Egg Hunt today). I thought momentarily about taking her to walk-in clinic but thought how difficult it would be to explain PANDAS to some random person (but what a great education it would be for them) just simply to get a quick strep test and the culture started. Our ped. wanted to wait until MOnday if the hives continued. I took pictures of the hives this AM....Can pictures be posted on this site?? I'd love to share them to see if anyone has seem anything like this before with their kids. I have not changed anything recently with her...no new detergents, foods or anything. We are in NY and have frost and snow even the last few nights so it's not hayfever or allergies-MD did agree it was likely viral or some type of infection...My other daughter had a staph infection 2 weeks ago-simple spot of Impetigo from a scratch and I asked about this but the doc. felt she'd have symptoms of Impetigo rash- I did remind him that her reaction to strep was nothing like that of typical kids so whose to say she'd present with this typically.

 

LEt me know about posting pix...

 

Thanks so much, Amy

[colleenrn]

Amy,

How did they determine it was a staph infection in your other child? Did they culture it?

Colleen

[7upMom]

Is her anxiety level high right now that she could be getting hives related to that?

[KaraM]

My non PANDAS son broke out in a rash toward the end of a strep infection (a.k.a. scarlet fever).

My PANDAS daughter also broke out in hibes, but it was an allergic reaction to amoxycillan (and I can't remember if she was on that because of strep or ear infection).

 

But your comment about the bloody nose makes me curious. My daughter get bloody noses, too, but they seem to have increased in frequency and severity over the past few months. I think I'll post a quesiton asking others about that.

 

 

I haven't posted on the board in quite sometime. My 5 1/2 y/o daughter has been free of PANDAS symtpoms for nearly a year. There has been an outbreak of chronic strep in her classroom at school, primarily 2 kids with recurrent strep, but the nurse said there has been 6 total (my daughter unbelieveably not being one of them). My daughter has not shown any of the symptoms she had last year (facial tics, vocal tics, OCD behaviors) at all-she has though in fact had some random fevers, ironically they seem to come the same day I get the note from school that there is a new case of strep in the class. Two nights ago she had a huge hive on her face, this morning an hour ago at 4am she awoke with large, welt-like hives on her arms and legs. She has had somewhat chronic mildly bloody noses, and more so the last few days. My pediatrician has not felt we should test her for strep b/c he feels she would demonstrate the PANDAS symptoms and we would obviously know. SHe now has these "soft" symptoms that make me wonder if she should be cultured for strep. The school nurse has called me twice, wondering if Allison is a "carrier" of strep and that's the reason the class is having this problem-my pediatrician says no way b/c if she had strep she would be symptomatic, but now I'm wondering if these are symptoms. She is so difficult to get a throat culture from-she has so much fear of "the stick" as she calls it-She likely had about 30 throat cultures in the 6 month period that we battled strep and PANDAS.

 

I'd appreciated any input you all have if your child has experienced anything similar. Thanks, Amy

[AmySLP]

No they didn't and I asked about that when the first topical they gave-Alabax I believe it was-did not work. It is specifically for Impetigo, so I wondered if that was truly what it was. I am a speech-Language Pathologist in a long-term care/rehab setting and my husband a dietitian who deals with wound care in his facility. We talked about the fact it should have been cultured. They put her (my non-PANDAS child 3 y/o) on an oral ABX-for the life of me I cannot think what it was. She is cleared now with the exception of scarring. I bathed by girls together, until the day the area was called Impetigo, which I knew was contagious-but my daughter never got that rash anywhere else on her.

 

Could my PANDAS dtr. be trying to fight off whatever infection my 3 y/o had??

 

Colleen, now I remember that when my daughter was dx. with EBV, she was initally diagnosed with tonsillitis (& strep of course) 2-3 days before-She was on augmentin and got the rash from the combination of those two.

 

The other thing about these hives-they seem to come every 12 hours like clockwork-no matter how much benedryl I give- This am I gave her only 1 tsp which kept them at bay until about an hour ago when they started to flare AGAIN! Yesterday I was giving 2 tsp. b/c I was afraid, but it was knocking her out-she slept last night for 14 hours.

 

Thanks for your input,

Amy

[AmySLP]

Is her anxiety level high right now that she could be getting hives related to that?

 

No I'd say no anxiety at all! She's so absorbed in Easter Festivities that other than the intense itching prior to benedryl dose-it's like nothing else is wrong.

[Buster]

Amy,

 

If they are subcutaneous nodules rather than hives, then that could be one of the signs of ARF. Did she have strep during this time? Alternatively, they could easily be a skin allergy.

 

Recommend taking to the doctor to have them take a look. If you send me a PM, I'll send you a note on how to post a picture if you wish.

 

Buster

 

Buster,

I took pictures of the hives this AM....Can pictures be posted on this site?? I'd love to share them to see if anyone has seem anything like this before with their kids. I have not changed anything recently with her...no new detergents, foods or anything. We are in NY and have frost and snow even the last few nights so it's not hayfever or allergies-MD did agree it was likely viral or some type of infection...My other daughter had a staph infection 2 weeks ago-simple spot of Impetigo from a scratch and I asked about this but the doc. felt she'd have symptoms of Impetigo rash- I did remind him that her reaction to strep was nothing like that of typical kids so whose to say she'd present with this typically.

 

LEt me know about posting pix...

 

Thanks so much, Amy

Edited March 27, 2010 by Buster

[thereishope]

I had a doctor tell me once to push down on the mark. If it turns skin color momentarily then goes back to red, it's hives. Don't know if that's true, but that's what they said.

[tired mom]

I haven't posted on the board in quite sometime. My 5 1/2 y/o daughter has been free of PANDAS symtpoms for nearly a year. There has been an outbreak of chronic strep in her classroom at school, primarily 2 kids with recurrent strep, but the nurse said there has been 6 total (my daughter unbelieveably not being one of them). My daughter has not shown any of the symptoms she had last year (facial tics, vocal tics, OCD behaviors) at all-she has though in fact had some random fevers, ironically they seem to come the same day I get the note from school that there is a new case of strep in the class. Two nights ago she had a huge hive on her face, this morning an hour ago at 4am she awoke with large, welt-like hives on her arms and legs. She has had somewhat chronic mildly bloody noses, and more so the last few days. My pediatrician has not felt we should test her for strep b/c he feels she would demonstrate the PANDAS symptoms and we would obviously know. SHe now has these "soft" symptoms that make me wonder if she should be cultured for strep. The school nurse has called me twice, wondering if Allison is a "carrier" of strep and that's the reason the class is having this problem-my pediatrician says no way b/c if she had strep she would be symptomatic, but now I'm wondering if these are symptoms. She is so difficult to get a throat culture from-she has so much fear of "the stick" as she calls it-She likely had about 30 throat cultures in the 6 month period that we battled strep and PANDAS.

 

I'd appreciated any input you all have if your child has experienced anything similar. Thanks, Amy

My daughter began breaking out in hives a few months back. They also appeared every 12 hours but in different forms. The first time her arms almost looked burned and the next time big welt-like ones and then her lips swelled which is when I took her to the er. At this time her symptoms were increasing and I tried invain to tell the dr. about PANDAS which I just as well could have spoken to the wall. Anyway her family doctor ordered some bloodwork and it did come back positive for myco. She had no symptoms at the time for myco but had been very sick a month before.