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Pressure to do 2nd MMR


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My almost 5 year old son is due to have his MMR booster next month, I've asked our doc about doing titers and I've been told he will probably show immunity because he already had 1 MMR, so they think he needs the 2nd one no matter what the titers show. They think the risks of getting the diseases far outweigh the effects of vaccines. This doctor is our family practice doctor, not one who I take my son with tics to. I don't think he supports our path of supplements and diet, so we don't see him for tics. I know that I can't say for certain that the MMR contributed to my son's tics, but the unknown scares me and the thought of doing it when I don't know the outcome makes me sick. I'm sure some of you have been in this situation. And my younger son is due for another Hib...should I continue to vaccinate him, no tics there?????? Thanks so much!

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this is always such a hard decision to make isnt it

 

from what I understand it is often the combination vaccines that can be especially problematic

 

could you ask your doc if they can do each separately and not all on the same day...ie separate the measles, from mumps, from rubella and do them as individual vaccinations

 

I know some parents are flatout refusing and getting exemptions on this. It is hard as some of the illnesses can be severe, yet the vaccinations may also cause ick stuff

 

hope whatever you decide that your child will be ok

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We were able to have our daughter tested for MMR and Chicken Pox titers. She had enough immunity and didn't have to have the immunization for kindergarten. Doc wrote a note that was included in her health records for school.

 

I would keep asking and perhaps even find another pediatrician who will support you on this. If you have to do the shots, then definitely get them to give them individually. My ped said they don't order them individually but I know there are peds who do.

 

Good luck!

God bless!

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ameecram,

confused....why would he need the second one if it does show enough immunity?

 

 

They made it sound like because of the first MMR he got, he would show some immunity because of having some in his system. Not too sure either, I'm confused too:) I know right now I can't have the regular MMR done, I'm way too nervous about it. Cheri mentioned giving the MMR seperately which I wil check into. I feel like our doctor is so unsupportive in all of this...so those feelings alone should send me elsewhere.

 

Hope, I think I came across your old post about the MMR when I was reading old posts on the subject.

 

Thanks everyone for responding!!

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i just got my ds results back on serum for tetnus and vericella

tetanus was ok , but nurse seemed a little pushy about redoing it

and he failed the vericella...

ds is 10 and in the 4th grade.

he will need .at least the vericalla (since he showed little to no titers) to go to middle school are required by state of GA

are there any concerns here about either of these

all thoughts welcome

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Hello

 

I completly know where you arte coming from I have my daughter coming up with her kindergarden shots and I am so afraid!! I do not want to give her all the shots!!!! It is such a hard situation and I know our ped. will think I am nuts if I start saying things since she does not know anything about my son.!!!

 

Mar

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I am also afraid of additional shots as my kids are 10 & 8 and i have been refusing shots everytime i am at the ped office. I don't know i would do when my kids are due for more shots!

 

Pat

 

It is a very hard decision to make. I've been so focused on the MMR, I forgot about the other shots he is supposed to get at this appt. I need to talk to his naturopath and maybe think about switching doctors. I really think they think I'm crazy, and every time we see the doctor, even for something minor, it's uncomfortable. He won't even hardly discuss tics with us, so we don't even bring it up anymore. Anyone know anything about the other vaccines at the 5 year appt. Can we get titers for everything?? Thanks guys!

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ameecram.

 

It seems your Dr. like many (I'm wondering if not the vast majority) doesn't understand what he's talking about regarding the MMR. Tell him to go to the CDC pinkbook and read about the measles, mumps and rubella in the "chapters" section. Then ask him if he stands by his statement regarding what the titers will likely show and what revaccination might accomplish. The 2nd MMR is not a booster, it is used to "catch" the estimated 3 to 5% of children who didn't show an immune response to the first one (I'm referring to measles..you can read the info on the other two below). Call some area schools and ask if they will accept proof of titers. I am unaware of anyone not accepting this.

 

Educate that Dr. and then find a new Ped, would be my recommendation.

 

The remark about the risk of disease outweighing the risk of vaccination is a sloppy lazy TIRED old line. We need better than this from our paid health care professionals. He does not understand the significance of the titer testing. I would be surprised if he really knows much more about vaccines than you do.

 

Ask him which vaccines contain an alum adjuvant and what his opinion is on the safety of multiple vaccinations in combo with alum. Ask him if the flu vaccines that his office administers still contain thimerosal/ethyl mercury. Ask him why the pneumococcal vaccine (that your child likely recieved) only contained 7 strains and you hear that the new one contains 13. There are over 90 stains pneumococcus. What stains might we be facing next? How many children suffered with a highly antibiotic resistant strain that appears to have "stepped in to fill a void," left by the first vaccine (and possible overuse of antibiotics)?

 

You can call ahead and ask for the name of the individual vaccines that your child is scheduled for and look up the vax inserts online and know the answers to these questions before hand. I met with huffy dismisal when asking peds these questions. One said, "I don't believe vaccines contain any of the things that your talking about and the Dr. that started these rumors has since apologized." I could rest assured she had no real knowledge of what she was strongly recommending for my newborn neice right then and there.

 

The bottom line here ameecram, we could sure use another parent out in the trenches that has become educated enough to put pressure on these people to start asking these questions and understanding THEMSELVES. Without it, we are putting our children at the mercy of an industry which generates billions and billions of dollars with no safety net.

 

Here are some links that should help get you started. I would really suggest that you read the archive section at the top of the mothering.com forum, on the individual vaccines. They had some really educated parents on that forum a few years ago that really helped me to understand some of these complicated issues.

 

 

 

 

0-6 year vaccine schedule

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/recs/schedules...schedule-pr.pdf

 

 

Vaccinations - MotheringDotCommunity Forums

 

http://www.mothering.com/discussions/forumdisplay.php?f=47

Vaccination Archives

 

 

 

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pinkbook/pink-chapters.htm

chapters

 

 

excerpts from chapters

 

 

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pinkbook/...loads/mumps.pdf

 

Mumps

 

More than 97% of recipients of a single dose develop measurable antibody. Seroconversion rates are similar for single antigen mumps vaccine, MMR, and MMRV. Postlicensure studies conducted in the United States during 1973–1989 determined that one dose of mumps or MMR vaccine was 75%–91% effective. A study from the United Kingdom documented vaccine effectiveness of 88% with two doses. The duration of vaccine-induced immunity is believed to be greater than 25 years, and is probably lifelong in most vaccine recipients.

 

 

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pinkbook/...ads/rubella.pdf

 

Immunogenicity and Vaccine Efficacy

RA 27/3 rubella vaccine is safe and more immunogenic than rubella vaccines used previously. In clinical trials, 95% or more of vaccinees aged 12 months and older developed serologic evidence of rubella immunity after a single dose. More than 90% of vaccinated persons have protection against both clinical rubella and viremia for at least 15 years. Follow-up studies indicate that one dose of vaccine confers long-term, probably lifelong, protection. Seroconversion rates are similar for single-antigen rubella vaccine, MMR, and MMRV.

 

 

 

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pinkbook/downloads/meas.pdf

 

Immunogenicity and Vaccine Efficacy

Measles vaccine produces an inapparent or mild, noncommunicable infection. Measles antibodies develop in approximately 95% of children vaccinated at 12 months of age and 98% of children vaccinated at 15 months of age. Seroconversion rates are similar for single-antigen measles vaccine, MMR, and MMRV. Approximately 2%–5% of children who receive only one dose of MMR vaccine fail to respond to it (i.e., primary vaccine failure).

 

and

 

 

Most vaccinated persons who appear to lose antibody show an anamnestic immune response upon revaccination, indicating that they are probably still immune. Although revaccination can increase antibody titer in some persons, available data indicate that the increased titer may not be sustained. Some studies indicate that secondary vaccine failure (waning immunity) may occur after successful vaccination, but this appears to occur rarely and to play only a minor role in measles transmission and outbreaks.

Edited by kim
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Cheri,

 

I tried to respond to this yesterday but my laptop seems to be worn out. It overheats and just snaps "off." I know just how it feels.

 

 

ameecram,

 

Seems I read somewhere just recently that the individual M M R vaccines are currently unavailable (no one is making them). You will need to confirm that tho. I don't spend nearly as much time on vax research as I used to.

 

I'm wondering if you know how many doses of HIB your youngest son has had? If you look at the schedule, he should have completed that series already.

 

Here are a couple of statements regarding HIB that might help you out?

 

http://www.vaccineinformation.org/hib/qandavax.asp

 

 

My 18-month-old toddler has never received Hib vaccine. Does she still need to get the series?

All children ages 12 through 59 months should receive at least one dose of Hib vaccine. The number of doses needed to complete the series depends on the child’s current age.

Will receiving the Hib shot protect my baby from ever getting meningitis?

No. Meningitis can also be caused by other viruses and bacteria. Hib vaccine will only protect against meningitis caused by Hib

 

 

How effective is this vaccine?

 

All the Hib vaccines licensed for use are good at producing immunity to invasive Hib disease. More than 95% of infants will be protected after two or three doses.

 

 

This whole thing is a lot more complicated when you are mid schedule, but I do believe with enough time and effort, you can come to "informed" decisions regarding the best way to proceed (or not proceed).

Edited by kim
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Cheri,

 

I tried to respond to this yesterday but my laptop seems to be worn out. It overheats and just snaps "off." I know just how it feels.

 

 

ameecram,

 

Seems I read somewhere just recently that the individual M M R vaccines are currently unavailable (no one is making them). You will need to confirm that tho. I don't spend nearly as much time on vax research as I used to.

 

I'm wondering if you know how many doses of HIB your youngest son has had? If you look at the schedule, he should have completed that series already.

 

Here are a couple of statements regarding HIB that might help you out?

 

http://www.vaccineinformation.org/hib/qandavax.asp

 

 

My 18-month-old toddler has never received Hib vaccine. Does she still need to get the series?

All children ages 12 through 59 months should receive at least one dose of Hib vaccine. The number of doses needed to complete the series depends on the child’s current age.

Will receiving the Hib shot protect my baby from ever getting meningitis?

No. Meningitis can also be caused by other viruses and bacteria. Hib vaccine will only protect against meningitis caused by Hib

How effective is this vaccine?

 

All the Hib vaccines licensed for use are good at producing immunity to invasive Hib disease. More than 95% of infants will be protected after two or three doses.

 

 

This whole thing is a lot more complicated when you are mid schedule, but I do believe with enough time and effort, you can come to "informed" decisions regarding the best way to proceed (or not proceed).

 

 

I truly can't thank you all enough, taking the time to answer my questions and offer support already makes me feel more powerful going in to this situation. I will read everything and gain the knowledge to make the best decisions for my kids. I appreciate everyone taking the time to respond.

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