Jump to content
ACN Latitudes Forums

To dicipline or not to dicipline


Recommended Posts

Our little guy is only 2 1/2, so we've struggled a bit with dicipline as it relates particulalry to his OCD related meltdowns. Tonight, at dinner, he was in a super good mood, laughing and smiling, not freaking about anything (and mealtimes are usually sensitive for us). However, he must have been freebasing pixie sticks at day care or something because he was bouncing off the walls!!! We couldn't get him to sit still and eat for anything. Normally, we'd send him off to time out until he was ready to come join us - even if he didn't eat, he's still required to sit at the dinner table during dinner time. However, it's been so long since we've seen the fun guy, neither of us really wanted to ruin his good time.

 

Are we getting soft? What do you all do in situations like that. We don't want to spoil him because of the PANDAS, but at the same time, we're so afraid to rock the boat!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I haven't figured all this out myself.. but am really curious if you could give some specific examples of how you detected ocd in your 2 year old? I have 1 ds with pandas, 1 dd I suspect and I have a 2 1/2 year old who sometimes I wonder about...

 

 

Our little guy is only 2 1/2, so we've struggled a bit with dicipline as it relates particulalry to his OCD related meltdowns. Tonight, at dinner, he was in a super good mood, laughing and smiling, not freaking about anything (and mealtimes are usually sensitive for us). However, he must have been freebasing pixie sticks at day care or something because he was bouncing off the walls!!! We couldn't get him to sit still and eat for anything. Normally, we'd send him off to time out until he was ready to come join us - even if he didn't eat, he's still required to sit at the dinner table during dinner time. However, it's been so long since we've seen the fun guy, neither of us really wanted to ruin his good time.

 

Are we getting soft? What do you all do in situations like that. We don't want to spoil him because of the PANDAS, but at the same time, we're so afraid to rock the boat!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It was the pediatrician that pointed us in this direction. But we had the sweetest, most mild mannered, super bright little guy in the world, and one day, about 3 weeks before his 2nd birthday he turned super aggressive to the kids at school. It was so sudden, we joked about how he must have "gotten the memo" that he was supposed to be gearing up for the terrible twos. We struggled with his anger for a while, thinking it was just that, the terrible twos. The tantrums got worse and worse, and he could no longer work through them at all, sometimes they'd last hours - stopping only when he fell asleep. The incident reports became daily at day care, and after several failed behavior plans at school, and several discussions with the pediatrician about what else we should be doing dicipline wise, we got a call two days in a row from school. They told us he was flipping out and it was just "not him". This day care has had my son since 12 weeks old so they saw the sudden change too. We agreed (and had suspected it might be more for some time, but dismissed the thought as our way of "making excuses" for our lack of parenting skills to handle this).

 

We took him into the pediatrician the next day - luckily, he had kept notes of our previous visits and questions, and even the nurses at the office noticed our little demon man (he used to LOVE going to the Dr, the last few times he was throwing things and just screaming NO!) Once on the antibiotics, we were amazed some of the differences. Our son was always very advanced verbally - using 3-4 word sentences before 18 mo. and even some minor letter and word recognition before 2, he had regressed significantly over that time frame, and until he started to get better - we didn't even notice! I guess we were just so afraid of setting off the demon that we weren't really focusing on anything else.

 

Our Dr. gave us the diagnosis even without a positive throat culture (and he still hasn't run blood work since he says that it may not be conclusive either, if the abx are working, he's willing to keep him on them so...) But he did have impetigo just about a month or so before he "got the memo".

 

Our Dr. says at his age it's very hard to tell what's the PANDAS and what's just being 2 - especially with the OCD and tantrums, but he said the PANDAS is just basically taking a typical 2 year old behavior and take it to the extreme. Which is pretty much how we'd describe his behavior.

 

I know it's hard, especially if you already have one child with it - every time my 3 year old pitches an unusual fit (for her) we start examining it for all sorts of PANDAS signs! (And we just found out this morning she has mycoplasma so we're watching extra close now!!)

 

My only advice is if you think that his behavior is more than even your normal "terrible twos" - than I'd talk to the Dr. For us it helped that we had day care, with a professional set of eyes to tell us - no, this isn't normal two year old stuff.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Our little guy is only 2 1/2, so we've struggled a bit with dicipline as it relates particulalry to his OCD related meltdowns. Tonight, at dinner, he was in a super good mood, laughing and smiling, not freaking about anything (and mealtimes are usually sensitive for us). However, he must have been freebasing pixie sticks at day care or something because he was bouncing off the walls!!! We couldn't get him to sit still and eat for anything. Normally, we'd send him off to time out until he was ready to come join us - even if he didn't eat, he's still required to sit at the dinner table during dinner time. However, it's been so long since we've seen the fun guy, neither of us really wanted to ruin his good time.

 

Are we getting soft? What do you all do in situations like that. We don't want to spoil him because of the PANDAS, but at the same time, we're so afraid to rock the boat!

IMO, He's only 2 1/2. with or without pandas, dinner should be a fun time and as long as or short as his attention span can handle. Why make dinner time a time where he gets time outs? Enjoy him all you can. They grow up before you know it and leave whatever stage they were in behind. =) (and I'd say that was even more importatn if his happy times are compromised with PANDAS)

Angela

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for taking the time to explain what you saw. I have to say that even with my older one with this he never once had an issue at school so I have different things that make me nervous... like I know it's silly but when my 2 1/2 year old has told me he loves for the 50th time in an hour..... those kinds of things....

 

Sounds like your pediatrician is very tuned in!

 

 

It was the pediatrician that pointed us in this direction. But we had the sweetest, most mild mannered, super bright little guy in the world, and one day, about 3 weeks before his 2nd birthday he turned super aggressive to the kids at school. It was so sudden, we joked about how he must have "gotten the memo" that he was supposed to be gearing up for the terrible twos. We struggled with his anger for a while, thinking it was just that, the terrible twos. The tantrums got worse and worse, and he could no longer work through them at all, sometimes they'd last hours - stopping only when he fell asleep. The incident reports became daily at day care, and after several failed behavior plans at school, and several discussions with the pediatrician about what else we should be doing dicipline wise, we got a call two days in a row from school. They told us he was flipping out and it was just "not him". This day care has had my son since 12 weeks old so they saw the sudden change too. We agreed (and had suspected it might be more for some time, but dismissed the thought as our way of "making excuses" for our lack of parenting skills to handle this).

 

We took him into the pediatrician the next day - luckily, he had kept notes of our previous visits and questions, and even the nurses at the office noticed our little demon man (he used to LOVE going to the Dr, the last few times he was throwing things and just screaming NO!) Once on the antibiotics, we were amazed some of the differences. Our son was always very advanced verbally - using 3-4 word sentences before 18 mo. and even some minor letter and word recognition before 2, he had regressed significantly over that time frame, and until he started to get better - we didn't even notice! I guess we were just so afraid of setting off the demon that we weren't really focusing on anything else.

 

Our Dr. gave us the diagnosis even without a positive throat culture (and he still hasn't run blood work since he says that it may not be conclusive either, if the abx are working, he's willing to keep him on them so...) But he did have impetigo just about a month or so before he "got the memo".

 

Our Dr. says at his age it's very hard to tell what's the PANDAS and what's just being 2 - especially with the OCD and tantrums, but he said the PANDAS is just basically taking a typical 2 year old behavior and take it to the extreme. Which is pretty much how we'd describe his behavior.

 

I know it's hard, especially if you already have one child with it - every time my 3 year old pitches an unusual fit (for her) we start examining it for all sorts of PANDAS signs! (And we just found out this morning she has mycoplasma so we're watching extra close now!!)

 

My only advice is if you think that his behavior is more than even your normal "terrible twos" - than I'd talk to the Dr. For us it helped that we had day care, with a professional set of eyes to tell us - no, this isn't normal two year old stuff.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for taking the time to explain what you saw. I have to say that even with my older one with this he never once had an issue at school so I have different things that make me nervous... like I know it's silly but when my 2 1/2 year old has told me he loves for the 50th time in an hour..... those kinds of things....

 

Sounds like your pediatrician is very tuned in!

 

 

That is the kind of OCD we would see - doesn't sound silly to me at all. For a while, I just thought that my child was unusually honest, unusually loving. Then I realized she was doing compulsions in order to keep me from "leaving her". Kind of a cold shower. We did both abx and therapy for this & she is now age appropriately loving - and happily able to be very independent when appropriate. I grew to hate "I love you, Mommy" and hugs - it was a real struggle to know how to react. Now I love my hugs & kisses - and so does Meg. Sometimes we talk about how nice it is to cuddle when we want to, not when we "have to". She is still a pretty honest kid, so I guess that is a silver lining for now.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Megs Mom, I'm still crossing my fingers that he just loves me a whole lot but I definitely am looking at it through different glasses than before I knew about pandas with my older ds. I really wish there was a magic way for me to really know for sure because right now the only people who don't think I am crazy if I say I worry about him and his I love yous and kisses are here on the board... everyone "in real life" thinks it is just too cute... My pandas ds only had some very short ocd things that came and went (minor handwashing and a short stint of garbage hoarding..all before we understood what was going on)... he has minor tics and the emotional liability and no current ocd that we have been aware of or able to pinpoint.

 

 

Thanks for taking the time to explain what you saw. I have to say that even with my older one with this he never once had an issue at school so I have different things that make me nervous... like I know it's silly but when my 2 1/2 year old has told me he loves for the 50th time in an hour..... those kinds of things....

 

Sounds like your pediatrician is very tuned in!

 

 

That is the kind of OCD we would see - doesn't sound silly to me at all. For a while, I just thought that my child was unusually honest, unusually loving. Then I realized she was doing compulsions in order to keep me from "leaving her". Kind of a cold shower. We did both abx and therapy for this & she is now age appropriately loving - and happily able to be very independent when appropriate. I grew to hate "I love you, Mommy" and hugs - it was a real struggle to know how to react. Now I love my hugs & kisses - and so does Meg. Sometimes we talk about how nice it is to cuddle when we want to, not when we "have to". She is still a pretty honest kid, so I guess that is a silver lining for now.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Our little guy is only 2 1/2, so we've struggled a bit with dicipline as it relates particulalry to his OCD related meltdowns. Tonight, at dinner, he was in a super good mood, laughing and smiling, not freaking about anything (and mealtimes are usually sensitive for us). However, he must have been freebasing pixie sticks at day care or something because he was bouncing off the walls!!! We couldn't get him to sit still and eat for anything. Normally, we'd send him off to time out until he was ready to come join us - even if he didn't eat, he's still required to sit at the dinner table during dinner time. However, it's been so long since we've seen the fun guy, neither of us really wanted to ruin his good time.

 

Are we getting soft? What do you all do in situations like that. We don't want to spoil him because of the PANDAS, but at the same time, we're so afraid to rock the boat!

IMO, He's only 2 1/2. with or without pandas, dinner should be a fun time and as long as or short as his attention span can handle. Why make dinner time a time where he gets time outs? Enjoy him all you can. They grow up before you know it and leave whatever stage they were in behind. =) (and I'd say that was even more importatn if his happy times are compromised with PANDAS)

Angela

I agree so much! We have a 7 year old daughter who tends to be hyper even when she's not being symptomatic, and I let slide whatever I can because when she is happy.. well, that is just a blessing. I mean, if these kids are crossing the street compulsively or trying to hurt themselves or really being brutal, illness or no illness, they have to know that their behavior isn't acceptable - but, during those times, they really don't seem to care, do they? So, when they are cognisant, happy and just being a kid - that is great!!

Good luck!

Noelle

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Our little guy is only 2 1/2, so we've struggled a bit with dicipline as it relates particulalry to his OCD related meltdowns. Tonight, at dinner, he was in a super good mood, laughing and smiling, not freaking about anything (and mealtimes are usually sensitive for us). However, he must have been freebasing pixie sticks at day care or something because he was bouncing off the walls!!! We couldn't get him to sit still and eat for anything. Normally, we'd send him off to time out until he was ready to come join us - even if he didn't eat, he's still required to sit at the dinner table during dinner time. However, it's been so long since we've seen the fun guy, neither of us really wanted to ruin his good time.

 

Are we getting soft? What do you all do in situations like that. We don't want to spoil him because of the PANDAS, but at the same time, we're so afraid to rock the boat!

 

How do you see OCD in toddlers? When my ds (now 12) was 2 he was a chronic biter. I was covered in welts and he targeted specific kids at day care - oddly they were the kids he later chose as friends. When he was 3 1/2 and I could ask him why he bit (as it was still an active behavior) he told me that if he did not bit he "could not breathe". If that is not a preschooler version of a compulsion I don't know what is!

 

We got through dinner using a weighted vest from an occupational therapist. It uses deep tactile pressure to calm the nervous system down, and worked for about 20 minutes at a time... just enough time for me to get a few bites in my self and take a couple of deep breaths.

 

Regarding your dinner experience... let me get this straight - you had a pleasant, fun dinner with your child who was in a very good (and wound up) mood, but could not sit still... and you are wondering if you should have been punishing him? I say enjoy the moment. As the mom of a child with challenges, sometimes you just have to give it up and enjoy yourself! Don't be afraid to rock the boat if you have to, but don't rock it just for the sake of rocking it. If you and hour dh wanted a calm, quiet dinner, it would be different. Tomorrow night (when he has not had pixie stix) you can remind him of the required dinner behavior and put him in time out if he misbehaves.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Our little guy is only 2 1/2, so we've struggled a bit with dicipline as it relates particulalry to his OCD related meltdowns. Tonight, at dinner, he was in a super good mood, laughing and smiling, not freaking about anything (and mealtimes are usually sensitive for us). However, he must have been freebasing pixie sticks at day care or something because he was bouncing off the walls!!! We couldn't get him to sit still and eat for anything. Normally, we'd send him off to time out until he was ready to come join us - even if he didn't eat, he's still required to sit at the dinner table during dinner time. However, it's been so long since we've seen the fun guy, neither of us really wanted to ruin his good time.

 

Are we getting soft? What do you all do in situations like that. We don't want to spoil him because of the PANDAS, but at the same time, we're so afraid to rock the boat!

I think the key is whether he couldn't sit still or wouldn't sit still. The hypers are often a symptom in PANDAS and disciplining that would be like disciplining a sneeze! My daughter has bouts of extreme silliness and wild exuberance (I think its yeasty behavior for her)- I just figure, if she's going to be symptomatic, I'd much rather it be this than the ragies! Besides, her joy is so contagious when she gets like that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Oh, I've had that here. Even at about 7 months since full recovery I still am soft on the guy.

 

During a PANDAS exacerbation, a child does really understand what they are feeling or doing. I don't repimand at that time.

 

Then it becomes hard to determine if it's PANDAS or a child just acting up. It is through attempting to repimand and their reaction that you may be able to determine it and whether a punishment should be given. example...I "threaten" to take toys away. During a PANDAS episode that won't phase him. When he's not, I see the worry on his face.

 

Then there's my boy. He's fine now but I worry so uch about losing him again and I know he's been through a lot. The thought of my last words being to him (if PANDAS should take him again) would be a punishment or making him cry makes it very hard on me. I do reprimand but I also find myslef being a little looser in punishments.

 

As for hyperactivity, you can look at the whole picture. Was anything casuing it besides having fun? Certain foods can do it and Claritin on day 11 made him bounce off the walls.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

He was just shot out of acannon last night, normally he's a very good eater and can't wait to sit down to dinner. Our big struggle is the inequity with what we expect out of our daughter, who's non PANDAS, and him. We wouldn't allow her to run amok like we did him last night, but threatening to not let him have a snack later (which usually makes the point) didn't work - so it probably was just a hyperactive moment.

 

I'm glad to hear that we're not the only softies and that it probably won't end up hurting the kids in the long run!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for taking the time to explain what you saw. I have to say that even with my older one with this he never once had an issue at school so I have different things that make me nervous... like I know it's silly but when my 2 1/2 year old has told me he loves for the 50th time in an hour..... those kinds of things....

 

Sounds like your pediatrician is very tuned in!

 

I think we are very lucky with our pediatrician, he's been great! There were several OCD things that my son would do, particularly surrounding breakfast at daycare that we never associated with OCD at first. We just thought he was a very particular little man. It wasn't until the aggression sprung up and we noticed that if he had a bad morning at breakfast (everything wasn't just right) the likilhood of him being aggressive seemed to increase - it wasn't always the case, but it was what made us start noticing that some of his odder behaviors probably weren't normal. That, and if things didn't go just right, the tantrum that followed was off the charts - sometimes lasting hours.

 

If it's something that you feel is unusual - pay attention. You know your child better than anyone else. Although, I have to admit - I'd find it easier to deal with the compulsive I love you's than with than making sure his pop tart sprinkles don't fall off and his banana sits at the proper angle on the placemat!

 

Although come to think of it, my son does offer up many unsolicited "I love you's" - more than my daughter ever did. (I'm not sure my daughter ever has - even at almost 4! :lol: )

 

Wonder if there is something to it?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I guess an easy way to check, is to offer him a candy if he will not say "I love you Mommy" until the buzzer goes off on a timer (try 20 min). If there is no way for him to do this, or if this causes a lot of anxiety, then you have a better clue about if this is OCD. I find that with younger ones, drawing a picture of what will happen if they "don't say I love you Mommy" is a good way to talk with them - then have him tell about the picture." We did ERP therapy when Meg was 3, and it was the easiest time, as she could really envision the "ocd" in her head & beat him up.

 

Megs Mom, I'm still crossing my fingers that he just loves me a whole lot but I definitely am looking at it through different glasses than before I knew about pandas with my older ds. I really wish there was a magic way for me to really know for sure because right now the only people who don't think I am crazy if I say I worry about him and his I love yous and kisses are here on the board... everyone "in real life" thinks it is just too cute... My pandas ds only had some very short ocd things that came and went (minor handwashing and a short stint of garbage hoarding..all before we understood what was going on)... he has minor tics and the emotional liability and no current ocd that we have been aware of or able to pinpoint.

 

 

Thanks for taking the time to explain what you saw. I have to say that even with my older one with this he never once had an issue at school so I have different things that make me nervous... like I know it's silly but when my 2 1/2 year old has told me he loves for the 50th time in an hour..... those kinds of things....

 

Sounds like your pediatrician is very tuned in!

 

 

That is the kind of OCD we would see - doesn't sound silly to me at all. For a while, I just thought that my child was unusually honest, unusually loving. Then I realized she was doing compulsions in order to keep me from "leaving her". Kind of a cold shower. We did both abx and therapy for this & she is now age appropriately loving - and happily able to be very independent when appropriate. I grew to hate "I love you, Mommy" and hugs - it was a real struggle to know how to react. Now I love my hugs & kisses - and so does Meg. Sometimes we talk about how nice it is to cuddle when we want to, not when we "have to". She is still a pretty honest kid, so I guess that is a silver lining for now.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I actually find that when Meg comes out of an exacerbation, she is really giddy for a while. I liken it to the feeling you have when you've had the flu for a week, and you finally feel better, it's sunny outside & you just feel like all is right with the world again. Meg seems to just want to embrace life again - and with a young child, this can spiral a little & make them hyper. I like to describe it as all of the joy that she was holding in, just floods back out of her. I usually give her some broader boundaries for a while & just enjoy her joy.

 

Then we slowly start to put rules back into place. I had to actually ground her for 3 days recently & in some wierd way, our entire family was really happy about it. It was so normal. Even Meg felt like it was fair & she could accept without it turning into something bigger. I am a different mom though - like Vickie said, I can't imagine really being too angry with her. I did ground her, but it was with a hug, and a comment about kids needing to learn and remember, and that it is ok to make mistakes.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...