tendonitis after strep infection

[Caryn]

BUT to suggest that we avoid using antibiotics to treat PANDAS due to concerns regarding fungal infection is simply spreading wrong information. There can be mild yeast overgrowth, not the deep seeded fungemia seen in mycotoxic patients.

 

Dr. T

 

 

Never suggested that at all. But readers beware that antibiotics can cause a whole host of additional problems if they are used repeatedly and long term. If the body isn't a good host for infection then the infections will no longer be reoccurring and/or rampant. Each individual case has differing causes and we all need to do many kinds of tests to figure out each case. Abx in isolation can cause a lot of problems in an immuno-compromised individual long term. They suppress the immune system, they don't cure it. They do nothing to aid the body's weakness, the underlying causes of the reoccurring infections. Just read about Beauchamp versus Pasteur. If that is all people look for, is the next ailment and the next course of antibiotics then it is nothing more than a vicious cycle. Yes, antibiotics kill bacteria; but they are a mold and if the body is not in balance they will proliferate in that already sick body over time, especially if the diet is full of mycotoxins, sugars, and starch and has been repeatedly stripped of beneficial bacteria over a long period of time.

 

I never suggested not to use abx for strep. You misunderstood my concern.

 

I only warn that repeated and long term abx will cause other health problems down the road if that is the main course of treatment and dietary restrictions are not involved. PERSONAL EXPERIENCE guides me, drives me to make this point. Repeatedly if I have to.

 

You suggest that only mild yeast overgrowth can be present in these kids. In MANY cases an antifungal diet has put children with symptoms of OCD and chronic multifocal ticcing into remission. There is much documented evidence suggesting that fungal infections can affect the brain and behavior. In a case where Pandas isn't 100% proven clinically why wouldn't a parent have their child tested for fungi? Dr. Bruce Semon has a program dedicated to working with T.S. patients using an anti-fungal approach. Doug Kaufman has a show dedicated to educating folks with auto immune disorders on the benefits of an anti-fungal diet. Sheila Rogers also discusses it in her book. Great Plains Labs in Kansas runs a series of diagnostic tests for children with Neurological issues. An ASO titer panel is one. Mycotoxins and Fungi are another.......

 

The microbe is nothing. The terrain is everything. We all have potentially dangerous pathogens in and on our bodies. In a healthy individual they are in balance. In a sick person they wreak havoc.

[Dr_Rosario_Trifiletti]

BUT to suggest that we avoid using antibiotics to treat PANDAS due to concerns regarding fungal infection is simply spreading wrong information. There can be mild yeast overgrowth, not the deep seeded fungemia seen in mycotoxic patients.

 

Dr. T

 

 

Never suggested that at all. But readers beware that antibiotics can cause a whole host of additional problems if they are used repeatedly and long term. If the body isn't a good host for infection then the infections will no longer be reoccurring and/or rampant. Each individual case has differing causes and we all need to do many kinds of tests to figure out each case. Abx in isolation can cause a lot of problems in an immuno-compromised individual long term. They suppress the immune system, they don't cure it. They do nothing to aid the body's weakness, the underlying causes of the reoccurring infections. Just read about Beauchamp versus Pasteur. If that is all people look for, is the next ailment and the next course of antibiotics then it is nothing more than a vicious cycle. Yes, antibiotics kill bacteria; but they are a mold and if the body is not in balance they will proliferate in that already sick body over time, especially if the diet is full of mycotoxins, sugars, and starch and has been repeatedly stripped of beneficial bacteria over a long period of time.

 

I never suggested not to use abx for strep. You misunderstood my concern.

 

I only warn that repeated and long term abx will cause other health problems down the road if that is the main course of treatment and dietary restrictions are not involved. PERSONAL EXPERIENCE guides me, drives me to make this point. Repeatedly if I have to.

 

You suggest that only mild yeast overgrowth can be present in these kids. In MANY cases an antifungal diet has put children with symptoms of OCD and chronic multifocal ticcing into remission. There is much documented evidence suggesting that fungal infections can affect the brain and behavior. In a case where Pandas isn't 100% proven clinically why wouldn't a parent have their child tested for fungi? Dr. Bruce Semon has a program dedicated to working with T.S. patients using an anti-fungal approach. Doug Kaufman has a show dedicated to educating folks with auto immune disorders on the benefits of an anti-fungal diet. Sheila Rogers also discusses it in her book. Great Plains Labs in Kansas runs a series of diagnostic tests for children with Neurological issues. An ASO titer panel is one. Mycotoxins and Fungi are another.......

 

The microbe is nothing. The terrain is everything. We all have potentially dangerous pathogens in and on our bodies. In a healthy individual they are in balance. In a sick person they wreak havoc.

 

I agree with what you say. I am not a fan of antibiotics long term. I really wish there were some way we could pick out, by the appropriate immune testing, those that absolutely need it. There could well be patients with PANDAS who would benefit from immune strengthening protocols just as much, if not more, than chronic antibiotics. But I do believe that in most people even chronic antibiotics, especially when given prophylactically, are preferable to chronic SSRI's or chronic risperdal.

 

One of the big arguments of the PANDAS naysayers is that by treating an illness that they feel is unproven to exist, we will be filling the world with antibiotics. Simply not true. Even if all tics and OCD turned out to be antibiotic-responsive (and it certainly is not) that would amount to treating no more than 2-3% of children. The likelihood of spreading a hypothetical resistant organism would be very low. It's also why MRSA exists in the world, but unless you are in a MRSA-haven (aka hospital) you are unlikely to encounter.

 

The answer then is to analyze the patient as carefully as possible. Not just say, you have PANDAS - here is my protocol. I think once a diagnosis of a PANDAS-like illness is strongly suspected, the questions should then be: 1) what are the infectious triggers in this patient? 2) what is wrong with this patient's immune system?

 

I think some of what you are saying is that fungi or their mycotoxins should be on the list of infectious/toxic triggers. It makes total sense. I think its very prudent to begin to look for these in patients in whom the "usual suspects" cannot be found, and especially in whom there are multiple affected family members to suggest an environmental exposure. As time goes on, and we become more refined in our ability to classify patients with PANDAS-like illnesses, we may be able to pick out those patients who need the full-blown fungal workup.

 

The low-down is you are right and I need to learn more about fungi and mycotoxins. You should know that most MD's knowledge of this amounts to no more than a half-dozen lectures in medical school! Pity us fools!

 

Dr. T

[kim]

That was a most impressive exchange! Dr. T you are truly one in a million. Wish I could give you a big hug.

Thanks for your input Caryn

[kim]

(4 different antibiotics). He finally feels better (last Tuesday), plays a couple of hours at the park with his buddies, and then his achilles starts bugging him. By the next day he can't walk on it at all, and now even in the boot (from last year) he has pain. Today the 2nd achilles goes down. I am not sure what to do for him. We are going to pediatrician tomorrow, so I guess we'll see what she says.

 

 

byarsfive,

 

I'm sure you or one of the Dr.s that you've seen are aware of this, but thought I would mention it anyway. Cipro has been known to cause problems with the achilles tendon (tendon ruptures). He has not been on Cipro when these problems are occuring has he?

 

On a different note, my oldest son has been going through a rough time with stomach pain. Gastro dr said she thought it was viral problem that affected stomach. He casually mentioned during this that his knee has been locking up when he walked. He has not been on any antibiotics recently, altho I'm not sure that he shouldn't have been.

With one of 2 illnesses that occured about 4 weeks apart, Dr. said lower lung sounds weren't right. He then told her that it was hard to take a deep breath. Myco P? He did have a cough, but I had hardly noticed it, and was surprised when he said that. It was shortly after that illness that the stomach problems started.