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Hi,

 

I have a question about corn if anybody in the know would be willing to share their knowledge with me:

 

My daughter has shown a sensitivity to corn, but it's not extreme. I'm thinking I'd like to keep her away from corn generally but allow it occasionally. What I'm looking to do is keep her total corn load low. What is it about corn that is creating the tic? The reason I'm asking is I'm trying to figure if, say, it's the corn PROTEIN that is the problem, then is corn oil a danger in that regard or not? (I know it's a danger in other ways, but in this regard)

 

How about corn starch?

 

Also, I am wondering what's the scoop on high fructose corn syrup? I've read up on it on the internet, so I understand the processing etc, but again, what is the element in corn that can cause tics in people and does hfcs have that element in abundance?

 

The other part of this question is, if I have a kid mildly sensitive to corn, what degree of that "tic producing quality" do these various corn products contain? Like, is a Tbsp of corn starch as "bad" as eating a whole cup of corn, or is it really only as bad as eating a spoonful of corn because much of the tic-producing element in the corn starch has been removed when corn gets made into corn starch?

 

Just FYI, I am not planning on loading my kid up on corn oil and hfcs, I am just trying to understand what the foundational element is so that I understand what is going on "behind the scenes".

 

Thanks! I'm looking forward to hearing what you all know! Hope I made sense!

 

In Christ,

 

Valerie

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Hi Valerie,

 

My son is corn intolerant/allergic. I started avoiding corn about three years ago. I did not do it fully until about 5 months into it. what I learned along the way and his slow and steady recovery with each bit I continually removed until he was 'cured' and in 'remission' led me to the conclusion that there is no such thing as being able to successfully 'reduce the corn load' with him. Now, almost three years after completely removing corn from his daily diet I have noticed that accidental exposures do not make him react with neuro symptoms anymore. (He has recently gotten a migraine and in the past has developed red shiners under his eyes.)

 

Corn has the highest mycotoxic load of all our foods in the U.S. Right under corn is peanuts and wheat. My son avoids all three. Mycotoxins (fungi) cause all kinds of problems in the body and if the gut is out of balance can lead to neurological probs in a worst case scenario. Basically it is a food that is laced with mold and from my research the more it is refined the more mycotoxins it has.

 

I have written a bit on the subject as part of my learning about it.

 

http://healthy-family.org/caryn/486/corn-s...eetens-our-food

 

http://healthy-family.org/caryn/1308/monsa...mage-in-mammals

 

http://healthy-family.org/caryn/1260/are-y...mycotoxic-fungi

 

http://healthy-family.org/caryn/1186/dange...tose-corn-syrup

 

These are just a few of the things I have learned over the years about corn and its byproducts. My son is also dxd Celiac and avoids wheat. We also avoid yeast and of course corn too. (And peanuts).

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Hi Valerie and welcome :lol:

 

my son did not test allergic to corn but has been avoiding all forms of it for some time now and feels it has been a very positive thing to do

 

Caryn is the "expert" on all the nitty gritty :lol: on corn and its many modifications etc so hopefully she will be along soon to add info for you

 

I do know that of all the corn stuff, HFCS was a major tic trigger for my son. I think it is the chemical alteration there that affected him, especially as he does have multiple chemical sensitivity

 

it does seem that some people with tics do ok on corn so I am not sure that it is universal that corn products trigger tics, but it does seem that a number of people have found this

 

I have seen suggestions that possible mold on the corn may be the actual trigger

 

as far as genetically modified corn....I would say dont go anywhere near it!

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Hi Caryn,

 

Thanks for your reply. What's your opinion on mild vs extreme sensitivity?

 

Valerie

 

 

 

Hi Valerie,

 

My son is corn intolerant/allergic. I started avoiding corn about three years ago. I did not do it fully until about 5 months into it. what I learned along the way and his slow and steady recovery with each bit I continually removed until he was 'cured' and in 'remission' led me to the conclusion that there is no such thing as being able to successfully 'reduce the corn load' with him. Now, almost three years after completely removing corn from his daily diet I have noticed that accidental exposures do not make him react with neuro symptoms anymore. (He has recently gotten a migraine and in the past has developed red shiners under his eyes.)

 

Corn has the highest mycotoxic load of all our foods in the U.S. Right under corn is peanuts and wheat. My son avoids all three. Mycotoxins (fungi) cause all kinds of problems in the body and if the gut is out of balance can lead to neurological probs in a worst case scenario. Basically it is a food that is laced with mold and from my research the more it is refined the more mycotoxins it has.

 

I have written a bit on the subject as part of my learning about it.

 

http://healthy-family.org/caryn/486/corn-s...eetens-our-food

 

http://healthy-family.org/caryn/1308/monsa...mage-in-mammals

 

http://healthy-family.org/caryn/1260/are-y...mycotoxic-fungi

 

http://healthy-family.org/caryn/1186/dange...tose-corn-syrup

 

These are just a few of the things I have learned over the years about corn and its byproducts. My son is also dxd Celiac and avoids wheat. We also avoid yeast and of course corn too. (And peanuts).

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Valerie,

 

I can only speak from my personal experience. My son's onset of comorbid tics/ocd/adhd was at age 3 1/2. Through this website I discovered the importance of diet and supplements. My corn journey was a slow one. It was a 'radical' approach in the sense that it seemed like quackery from the perspective of, well, just about everybody in my circle of family and friends. I started out avoiding the obvious corn things. He got better but wasn't 'great'. So I started researching more and more until I got what others would consider 'fanatical' about removing corn. I got rid of laundry soaps, dish soaps, shampoos, spices, seasonings, vanilla extract, iodized table salt, began peeling the skin off of waxed fruit, got rid of anything preserved with citric acid, switched to grass fed unsalted butter, organic corn-free dairy products, grass fed organic meats. You cannot realize how deeply embedded corn byproducts are in our society until you try to cut them out.

 

After doing this for just a few months my son had really turned a corner. After a year he was 'better'. Two years later I termed it 'remission'. Now accidental corn does not cause neurological symptoms anymore.

 

He was pretty severe at onset. Had bladder control issues, rages, anxiety, sleeplessness, a whole host of issues-- bloated swollen tummy, undigested food in his feces, a long history of infections and treatments with antibiotics.

 

What I have learned in the three years is that it takes a build process before the body breaks down and develops an autoimmune disorder. It takes time for the system to get so unbalanced that neurological symptoms erupt. --My son was also dxd with Celiac which could have contributed to the neuro or it could have been a separate coincidental dx. Just don't know. But I do know that when his gut healed (I believe he had fungal issues and a leaky gut) his intolerance became less severe. It got to the point where instead of seeing him develop chronic multifocal ticcing and extreme moodiness he would develop red shiners under his eyes for a few days. The ticcing would last up to two weeks during his healing stage.

 

I will say that the more refined the corn byproduct the more he reacted. This is even true today. There are some nasty chemicals and fungi involved in making HFCS and other corn sweeteners. But I do not see the daily neuro symptoms. If he gets 'corned', especially from HFCS (which is very rare, but has happened at school twice) he will have problems attending to class and gets hyper for the remainder of the day. Has a major sloppy handwriting develop and will have trouble falling asleep that night.

 

I use supps that help the liver and kidneys detox and this helps with the corn exposures. I used to use Benadryl dye free (but it does have sorbitol, mind you). I don't need it now.

 

Caryn

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Hi Caryin,

 

your in box is full. so here goes

 

When you use Nac...is it all the time, or do you go off and on?

Is it just for ocd or does it help with tics too?

Does it help with allergies?

It helps with glutathione right?

And it helps detox right?

And/or what is your theory on NAC?

What about NAG as i've seen on the pandas board ..any knowledge on that>

 

 

i now i need to bumpp up vitamin C 3xs.....but just curious.......i think my boy has a saliclate problem...

Is there a test for that? on Metametrix testing my boy did not come up allerigice to anything?????

Others who had it drawn roughly the same time also and negateives results, as i eased dropped on ther conversatons while attending brain balance...but some did showed a couple of reactions.....could it be bad testing? they say they check the test at the same time as they are testing the blood for consistancy.

 

And what dosage do you give your boy and how much does he weigh?

my guy is 75lbs.

 

I’m sorry if all of this is elseware. …my brain is fried and it gets so hard to keep this straight, even though I try to save stuff.

 

thanks so much

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Hi Caryin,

 

your in box is full. so here goes

 

When you use Nac...is it all the time, or do you go off and on?

 

We don't use it all the time, just when I feel he needs a bump up. He was dxd with pyroluria too, and that can cause low glutathione. His diet is super clean and so I think that is partly why I don't need it all the time. When I was giving it every day I only gave him 25 mg, roughly a quarter of a 100 mg capsule that I would mix in something. My son seems to need it in the summer and fall then he is fine in the winter. I think this coincides with the corn growing season and there is a corn field less than 1/2 a mile from our house (In the city of Chicago, too- LOL).

 

Is it just for ocd or does it help with tics too?
We didn't start using it until this summer, and by that time the OCD was not apparent anymore. So I can't say. I have seen studies that connected OCD to undiagnosed celiac so I put the 'cure' in that down to his being on a gluten and corn free diet for quite some time. Personally, I think it had to do with his leaky gut. Just my experience. Seemed like when that healed up it naturally improved over time. The supps that Cheri suggested really helped during the period that he was pretty bad. I also used Bon Tech and that helped, but again, those things did not cure him like the diet did. They did a tremendous job of helping him cope and manage while we were figuring it all out. At that time he was still waxing and waning a lot and we were playing daily detective games with him.

 

Does it help with allergies?

 

Hm. My hunch is 'yes' it helps but I think that when you are really reactive and the antibody levels are really high for a particular food/protein then giving NAC with the allergic food is not very helpful. Just my experience, again, as that is what I did the first 5 months on the 'diet', not because I didn't want to follow it 100%. It was purely ignorance on my part.

 

It helps with glutathione right?And it helps detox right?
Yes. NAC helps the body produce more glutathione.

Yes, the body needs glutathione to detox. It is an antioxidant and helps the liver and intestines function.

 

And/or what is your theory on NAC?
Read CarolineN.'s posts. She has done a lot of research on NAC and uses it with a regular diet. (I believe she avoids MSG like the plague). She has had a lot of success with NAC.

 

What about NAG as i've seen on the pandas board ..any knowledge on that>
No, I don't often read the Pandas board. It is a different treatment protocol than what we used. From my standpoint antibiotics are the catalyst for my son's condition and not the cure. It was frequent use of antibiotics that developed a fungal issue and eventually the neuro symptoms. I have had to put my son on antibiotics after his dx one time due to an ear infection. I was very careful to feed him a good 'after antibiotics' diet so that he didn't get a rebound fungal problem after working so hard to eliminate the first one. I understand that on the Pandas board that is the main treatment option for many, if not all, and for us it seems counter productive as it would cause more harm than good in the gut if we over prescribed abx. My son had many courses from age 1 to 3 1/2. Four times in one year before we realized he was Celiac. He had issues with C-diff too, and eventually had reoccurring episodes of undigested food in his stools, to the point where you knew exactly what he had eaten. Graphic and gross, but necessary detail for anyone reading this who might have a light bulb moment. Undigested food in the stool means no absorption of vital nutrients. Means the kid is eating but nutritionally STARVED.

 

 

i now i need to bumpp up vitamin C 3xs.....but just curious.......i think my boy has a saliclate problem...

Is there a test for that?

 

Does he have the 'north american red ear'?

 

I learned way back that high doses of B6 can cause a salicylate sensitivity. The Bontech actually caused my son to develop one. Now he is on a much lower dose of B6 for maintenance and he eats that stuff w/o problems. My little guy still gets the red ears. Almond milk is the worst for him.

 

 

on Metametrix testing my boy did not come up allerigice to anything?????

Others who had it drawn roughly the same time also and negateives results, as i eased dropped on ther conversatons while attending brain balance...but some did showed a couple of reactions.....could it be bad testing? they say they check the test at the same time as they are testing the blood for consistancy.

You know, I'm not familiar with metametrix, but I was privileged to talk with Doug Kaufmann of Know the Cause and he told me that he was one of the original designers of the IgG food allergy test. He claimed that those tests are flawed as the body is reacting to the mycotoxins in the food and not the food itself. So if the samples were not full of mycotoxins that might explain why all results done together were similar. That would also explain why the same person would get a totally different result six months later. All the foods my son tested positive for were fungal foods. He tested positive for 17. I shared this info with Doug and he and I agreed that my son was probably reacting to the mycotoxins and not the foods.

 

 

And what dosage do you give your boy and how much does he weigh?

my guy is 75lbs.

 

I give 25 mg of NAC and he weighs about 45 lbs.

 

I’m sorry if all of this is elseware. …my brain is fried and it gets so hard to keep this straight, even though I try to save stuff.

 

thanks so much

No prob. I need to pay it forward. So many people have helped me along the way. I am eternally grateful to all of them.

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i now i need to bumpp up vitamin C 3xs.....but just curious.......i think my boy has a saliclate problem...

Is there a test for that?

Does he have the 'north american red ear'?

 

I learned way back that high doses of B6 can cause a salicylate sensitivity. The Bontech actually caused my son to develop one. Now he is on a much lower dose of B6 for maintenance and he eats that stuff w/o problems. My little guy still gets the red ears. Almond milk is the worst for him.

 

 

on Metametrix testing my boy did not come up allerigice to anything?????

Others who had it drawn roughly the same time also and negateives results, as i eased dropped on ther conversatons while attending brain balance...but some did showed a couple of reactions.....could it be bad testing? they say they check the test at the same time as they are testing the blood for consistancy.

You know, I'm not familiar with metametrix, but I was privileged to talk with Doug Kaufmann of Know the Cause and he told me that he was one of the original designers of the IgG food allergy test. He claimed that those tests are flawed as the body is reacting to the mycotoxins in the food and not the food itself. So if the samples were not full of mycotoxins that might explain why all results done together were similar. That would also explain why the same person would get a totally different result six months later. All the foods my son tested positive for were fungal foods. He tested positive for 17. I shared this info with Doug and he and I agreed that my son was probably reacting to the mycotoxins and not the foods.

 

 

And what dosage do you give your boy and how much does he weigh?

my guy is 75lbs.

I give 25 mg of NAC and he weighs about 45 lbs.

 

I’m sorry if all of this is elseware. …my brain is fried and it gets so hard to keep this straight, even though I try to save stuff.

 

thanks so much

No prob. I need to pay it forward. So many people have helped me along the way. I am eternally grateful to all of them.

 

DS came home from school and his ears were like fire engines......so you might be thinking too much B6

 

So i again to look at his panel from Metametrix.....His Leucine levels are marked"H....X" high in danger zone i guess.

So i went to the web to see results for high Leucine and 2 of the sites on the first page refer to Pellegra

Pellegra as you mentioned has to do with corn in the diet an mal-absorbtion.....

This paper says to counter act Pellegra you need more B6.....shoot me....

Or just add Niacin(B3)

http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/reprint/31/5/819.pdf

and its all about the liver and kidneys which keeps coming up Bun/creo way off when tested at 5 and his last test at 9 ??? Do you think Dr K would catch something like that?

 

No matter what i look into it seems as though the counter action is something that we should probably be avoiding

And part of me is annoyed because if it is all about corn, i wish i did that sooner.and it is probably going to be harder than the GF/CF

But how lovely it would be to say I have the answer....i guess that is why i hesitate...because to do this is gonna sksd!!

 

He also has a low Vanilmandelate, Homovanillate..which indicates a need for Tyrosine....but i'm scared to try this per the many conversatoins on this board..

 

ANY thoughts Caryn, Chemar, anyone

 

I would also like to know how many people know or are guessing Corn is the issue besides Caryn, Chemar, Laurena82

And if its not the answer i will probably be more depressed, if that is possible.

 

I know except for a few, none of us are doctors, but i have no one here and i need to find someone who knows what they are doing and isn't just out to make money

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Fixit,

What's his daily diet like? Give me brand names and everything. I need to know his favorites, and what he hates with a passion.

I will try to see if anything jumps out at me as hidden corn, etc... and see if there is anything that he could substitute.

 

Where do you shop? What are the vitamin brands you use? Many, especially the C vitamins are corn derived. We personally can't do 99% of vitamin Cs. I found one brand that is a green powder that he was okay with.

 

You know Pellegra is an 'old' disease that is supposedly no longer an 'issue' in modern society-- but if the diet is a high corn diet and there is little else, I don't know. I wouldn't worry that he has pellegra but definitely that there might be a connection to corn as an underlying aggravation.

 

I use Country Life Basic B caps. It has 25mg B3 (niacin) and 25mg B6 and 50 mcg of B12 and 25 mg B1 and 25 mg B2 among other amounts. This one has worked the best for us.

 

I use NutriBiotic Meta C buffered vitamin C with Metabolites in food matrix form. It is a green powder (phytoplankton). Says no corn on the label. Other 'no corn' C tablets caused a reaction. I put it down to citric acid, but that was just a guess, was always the same ingredient in all the other Cs.

 

DS came home from school and his ears were like fire engines......so you might be thinking too much B6
Maybe, maybe not. Hard to know without knowing the full extent of what he's eating and the supps he's on and the onset and duration of the 'red ear syndrome'. It is something that over time you will begin to figure out as you experiment more with what makes him tic. Sulfites are known to do this. Some people get them after a glass of wine. Sodium Benzoate can do it. MSG can do it. In our case our son was on a VERY high dose of B6. He was under 40 lbs at the time and was taking 8-10 Bontech supps a day. They worked with his many symptoms and helped minimize the rages and tics but it was a lot for such a little guy and he developed a sensitivity to sals.

 

You know, I don't know too much about Dr. K. (although he is in my backyard practically). I never consulted him for treatment. I went to the Pfeiffer Center in Warrenville. I think it is hard to find a doc that is familiar with nutrition, and it is hard to find a nutritionist that is familiar with leaky gut issues. We got lucky with the Dan Doc because he has a son with autism so he 'gets it' beyond a clinical perspective. I read Jenny McCarthy's book and really connected with what she had to say. If you feel like you are walking in a dark room with a hundred door knobs and no light you are not alone. I think we all feel that way. You are your child's best advocate and the best lab tech/scientist he has. Start a food journal and see if there isn't a pattern emerging somewhere.

 

No matter what i look into it seems as though the counter action is something that we should probably be avoiding

And part of me is annoyed because if it is all about corn, i wish i did that sooner.and it is probably going to be harder than the GF/CF

But how lovely it would be to say I have the answer....i guess that is why i hesitate...because to do this is gonna sksd!!

 

I laughed when I read the last bit. But you are so right. I felt the exact same way. I sooo did not want to do the diet but I was desperate after a trip to the in laws resulted in a lot of long walks with our tantruming and ticcing boy. Now when I look back I can see that what he was eating was causing his distress. Back then not so much. Back then I liked my McDonalds and my Wilton cake decorating. I liked making 12 kinds of cookies at Christmas. I liked buying the Gerber snacks and making farina at breakfast time. Everything I owned condiment wise had HFCS in it. I used to make popcorn weekly as a snack. I didn't even know how to cook, either. I did Tortino's pizza rolls, ordered pizza, bought the green giant veggies with the frozen sauce.

 

Now I make my own homemade sausages without nitrates. We peel carrots and potatoes every day. (I make the boys do it). We make our own salad dressing (simple, really, and so cheap). Yeah, the transition period really sucks. It does get better. Once you learn your brands and you figure out what is good and everything life gets more normal.

 

He also has a low Vanilmandelate, Homovanillate..which indicates a need for Tyrosine....but i'm scared to try this per the many conversatoins on this board..
Yeah, I don't rely on amino acids anymore but I did try different ones when he was more reactive. It is so hard to know what works and what doesn't when there are so many factors involved. He was prescribed inositol and taurine. We never did tyrosine.

 

I would also like to know how many people know or are guessing Corn is the issue besides Caryn, Chemar, Laurena82

And if its not the answer i will probably be more depressed, if that is possible.

 

I know except for a few, none of us are doctors, but i have no one here and i need to find someone who knows what they are doing and isn't just out to make money

 

Keep your chin up. You are smart enough, strong enough, and have enough love to do what you need to do for your child. If you believe in God then use that power to guide you. You'll get there as long as you seek the truth. No doctor knows your child like you do. And many are experts in a field but lack knowledge in other more crucial areas that may or may not matter in your son's case so connecting the dots and various metabolic tests might be a job that only you can initiate and that is not the fault of any one doctor. I think they are in medicine to help people and there is a lot science doesn't yet know about this condition. I spent a long time feeling guilty and responsible. But I finally gave it over to my creator and it wasn't until then that I finally got peace about everything. There is always darkness before we come into the light. That dark room only has so many knobs. Eventually you will open the right door and know that everything is finally coming into view.

 

I really can't say whether I think that corn is a problem for every one, or even most. But in our world it was the mountain we had to climb to get to the other side.

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Caryn--I have recently realized that yeast issues have been very serious for me, and getting to do what I can about it with antifungals and more serious dietary changes. I have seen the recommendations of Doug Kaufmann, and here you mentioning wheat and corn are 2 of the top 3 in terms of mycotoxin load (is that the same as yeast/fungus load?). Given I have to eat something, what I think would be useful is a list for the various foods, what is the mycotoxin load or yeast/fungus load, so I can better switch from the bad ones to the good ones, kind of know the choices and know the effect of the choices. I imagine the numbers vary from sample to sample, but still hoping there is something somewhere that would give numbers that would be a little more specific guidance. Do you know of anything?

 

Fixit--Your comment (from Doug Kaufmann and your conversation) about the IgG blood tests perhaps being more about the yeast/fungus/mycotoxins than the food itself speaks to me, because I have two of the IgG tests done by the same company, 2 years apart, after various allergy treatments, and what I noticed was how the results from the two different tests seemed almost completely random. Dairy showed up strong on both, something I haven't eaten in years and years, but, other than that, just random numbers. They had nothing to do with what I was treated for, nothing to do with foods that I felt my body reacted to poorly (in terms of how I felt and diarrhea and so on), nothing to do with foods I ate a lot of recently or had urges to eat (which I hear are often good markers). It's like it just meant nothing. At the same time, I'm having trouble exactly understanding what you/Doug are suggesting. Is the testing company using different food samples over time, rather than the same thing, and it is really measuring how much yeast/fungus/mycotoxins their food source has? Or something else? Just not understanding exactly.

 

Michael

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Caryn,

Hi, very interesting about Doug Kaufmann and the flawed IGG testing. You said your son reacted to the fungal foods on the IGG testing. My son reacted to Milk and really high with eggs. Could you tell me possibly what mycotoxins those foods are? Could you please explain a little more about this? Thanks again for your helpful advise, Char..

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Michael and Char,

 

I will answer briefly because the school gets out soon and I will have to go--

 

If you read Doug's many books and watch his show you will learn that there are mycotoxins in everything we eat. Heating food does not completely destroy them, either, as proven in a 1990 study by E.H. Marth.

 

There are mycotoxins in dairy and also in eggs.

 

I think the thing about the tests has to do with exactly Michael's assumption-- various test samples use foods that may be affected with varying levels of mycotoxins depending on the harvest they acquired at the time of testing. They get peanuts from a particular peanut farm infested with mycotoxins based on storage practices, etc.... Versus another farmer with different soil composition and different storage time/process for the next test batch.

 

The point he makes is that we have to eat fungal fighting foods-- certain vegetables and kinds of meats that actually fight fungus and keep the fungal levels in our bodies down to manageable levels. We all have fungus and bacteria in our bodies. When be become unhealthy it is because the symbiosis is challenged by over population of either fungus or harmful bacteria. Our bodies are just giant petrie dishes.

 

Our modern food system creates an abundance of processed, genetically modified, and antibiotic riddled food that tends to promote fungal overgrowth. Add to that steroid use and frequent antibiotics and you develop mycotoxic overload. That is his show's premise and the theory behind his work. We do not follow a diet as strict as the one he has but our diet is somewhat similar.

 

I know this didn't really answer your question, Char. I apologize. We used to avoid eggs and milk. We eat them now. So in my opinion I believe that my son's overuse of antibiotics was the catalyst for his condition. The strict diet brought him back into balance and now we maintain it with organic, grass fed, low grain, etc..... But now we can eat things that once we couldn't because he doesn't have mycotoxic overload anymore. Doug talks more broadly than candida albicans. According to him there are hundreds of fungi and that is just one that the medical field is familiar with. Aflatoxin is another big one. Gotta run. Sorry---

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