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Hi!

 

I know we've talked about this previously, but I'm still not clear on what the symptoms might be of over-active yeast production in a pre-teen or teenage boy. Do any of you have experience, diagnosis and/or a list of symptoms you could share?

 

I recall there were some behavioral aspects ("silliness") and some other potential signs, as well, but since PANDAS symptoms themselves can be such a mixed bag, I'm having difficulty separating the wheat from the chaff, as it were.

 

Any help very much appreciated!

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Hi!

 

I know we've talked about this previously, but I'm still not clear on what the symptoms might be of over-active yeast production in a pre-teen or teenage boy. Do any of you have experience, diagnosis and/or a list of symptoms you could share?

 

I recall there were some behavioral aspects ("silliness") and some other potential signs, as well, but since PANDAS symptoms themselves can be such a mixed bag, I'm having difficulty separating the wheat from the chaff, as it were.

 

Any help very much appreciated!

 

Here are our big candida flags, all of which became evident when he was 12.

Acid reflux...worse than I could imagine a child having, complete with brown tongue upon waking some mornings.

Silliness...laughing more than normal about things...or about nothing at all.

Laughing in his sleep.

Difficulty controlling his body temp, he complained of being hot all the time but was never warm to the touch or running fever.

Craving carbs and sugar more than normal.

More tics or stimming.

 

Many of the symptoms our kids have would be defined by others as characteristic of candida overgrowth. Abx and steroid use would just foster more candida. However, you can't blame elevated titers on candida and if it were exclusively candida you wouldn't see improvement with abx and steroid therapies. I do think, though, that exception care of the gut must be taken with our kids when utilizing abx and steroids.

 

Interestingly, there is some research out there now that talks about adding, of all things, Advil behind Rx'd antifungal therapies as it, for some reason, increases the effectiveness of the antifungal. There are a few similarities in what this group has success with versus how my DAN! doc treated PANDAS in my son in the past. We are currently using azith but are still using fluconazole, too.

 

Gat's mom.

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Thanks, Gat's mom.

 

Can you tell me, are there any simple, standard tests that my son could be given to determine definitively is candida is an issue? Thus far, we're not working with a PANDAS or DAN specialist -- just his pediatrician of 10+ years -- and I'm not sure how familiar she would be with this issue. If we had something to suggest, however, I think she'd get on board. Though, I gotta admit, with all the meds and supplements he's already ingesting on a daily basis, I'm a little reluctant to throw yet another thing (antifungal) at him.

 

Thus far, out of your list, we've seen some reflux and body temp issues; he's periodically "silly" all on his own, so that type of behavior has not been substantially different of late where I would necessarily see a tie-in. And he's never been a big sugar guy, though carbs are a fav, again, though, not necessarily more now than before the abx.

 

In your experience (or anyone else's), can it regulate on its own, once this abx is cut back to a prophylactic dose or along with regular probiotics?

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This is really a tough one. Some sites list symptoms of candida that are so similar to the PANDAS symptoms. I am 42 and have PANDAS, and now that I am taking antifungals, before trying to treat with antibiotics, I am seeing how badly the candida has been affecting me all these years--perhaps since childhood. The GI doctor wants to feed me acid-blockers forever, but why is my body over-producing acid? Suddenly with treatment for yeast, the body stops over-producing acid, just like that, how about that? She even gave me endoscopy and colonoscopy, and I asked about candida, and she said I didn't have it, she would have seen it if I had it. The one thing I can say, don't trust a doctor to know. Really, sorry to say, but the easiest way to know, is to start taking antifungals. Nystatin has quite a reputation for being very safe, partly because it is not absorbed in the intestines. This strength means it also will only treat yeast in the digestive system. It might be a relatively safe first-step, particularly for someone with any kind of digestive issues--food sensitivities/allergies, stomach pain, indigestion, diarrhea, constipation, and so on. There are other antifungals that will get the whole thing. Sensitive to chemicals or smells. If you see genital itching, it's a clue also, but don't know if a child is going to have that. Books like "The Yeast Connection" have a full questionnaire and a long list of symptoms to look for.

 

I really do think the yeast issue is not considered enough, reading the posts here. Perhaps it is the reason for some children why things don't get better with the antibiotics, perhaps not, but I do wonder.

 

I have heard there are now blood tests for yeast infections. Perhaps they work well, but I would also consider if you trust the results will be looked at well. I remember wanting chelation, getting a test for the metals, and the doctor thinks I don't need it, the levels aren't too high. Then I take an acid-blocker with aluminum in it (omeprazole, generic of prilosec), and start getting spasms all throughout my body. Yeah, I'm sure nothing to do with having too much aluminum. Maybe he was reading it right for most people, but not for sensitive me. So I'd have the same concern regarding a yeast test for someone with PANDAS/TS symptoms.

 

Michael

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This is really a tough one. Some sites list symptoms of candida that are so similar to the PANDAS symptoms. I am 42 and have PANDAS, and now that I am taking antifungals, before trying to treat with antibiotics, I am seeing how badly the candida has been affecting me all these years--perhaps since childhood. The GI doctor wants to feed me acid-blockers forever, but why is my body over-producing acid? Suddenly with treatment for yeast, the body stops over-producing acid, just like that, how about that? She even gave me endoscopy and colonoscopy, and I asked about candida, and she said I didn't have it, she would have seen it if I had it. The one thing I can say, don't trust a doctor to know. Really, sorry to say, but the easiest way to know, is to start taking antifungals. Nystatin has quite a reputation for being very safe, partly because it is not absorbed in the intestines. This strength means it also will only treat yeast in the digestive system. It might be a relatively safe first-step, particularly for someone with any kind of digestive issues--food sensitivities/allergies, stomach pain, indigestion, diarrhea, constipation, and so on. There are other antifungals that will get the whole thing. Sensitive to chemicals or smells. If you see genital itching, it's a clue also, but don't know if a child is going to have that. Books like "The Yeast Connection" have a full questionnaire and a long list of symptoms to look for.

 

I really do think the yeast issue is not considered enough, reading the posts here. Perhaps it is the reason for some children why things don't get better with the antibiotics, perhaps not, but I do wonder.

 

I have heard there are now blood tests for yeast infections. Perhaps they work well, but I would also consider if you trust the results will be looked at well. I remember wanting chelation, getting a test for the metals, and the doctor thinks I don't need it, the levels aren't too high. Then I take an acid-blocker with aluminum in it (omeprazole, generic of prilosec), and start getting spasms all throughout my body. Yeah, I'm sure nothing to do with having too much aluminum. Maybe he was reading it right for most people, but not for sensitive me. So I'd have the same concern regarding a yeast test for someone with PANDAS/TS symptoms.

 

Michael

 

Thanks, Michael. Having read some of your previous posts, I know that you are really knowledgable and experienced in this area. I take it Nystatin is a prescription antifungal? Are there any "over the counter" types that we might try at home as a first "litmus test" to see if there's a response? Having had to pitch really hard regarding the PANDAS and needing long-term abx from our pediatrician, I can just see her face if/when I approach her about yet another "unprovable" issue I want to try and treat through prescription drugs! She's gonna call Child Protective Services on me! Aarrgghh! :angry:

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This is really a tough one. Some sites list symptoms of candida that are so similar to the PANDAS symptoms. I am 42 and have PANDAS, and now that I am taking antifungals, before trying to treat with antibiotics, I am seeing how badly the candida has been affecting me all these years--perhaps since childhood. The GI doctor wants to feed me acid-blockers forever, but why is my body over-producing acid? Suddenly with treatment for yeast, the body stops over-producing acid, just like that, how about that? She even gave me endoscopy and colonoscopy, and I asked about candida, and she said I didn't have it, she would have seen it if I had it. The one thing I can say, don't trust a doctor to know. Really, sorry to say, but the easiest way to know, is to start taking antifungals. Nystatin has quite a reputation for being very safe, partly because it is not absorbed in the intestines. This strength means it also will only treat yeast in the digestive system. It might be a relatively safe first-step, particularly for someone with any kind of digestive issues--food sensitivities/allergies, stomach pain, indigestion, diarrhea, constipation, and so on. There are other antifungals that will get the whole thing. Sensitive to chemicals or smells. If you see genital itching, it's a clue also, but don't know if a child is going to have that. Books like "The Yeast Connection" have a full questionnaire and a long list of symptoms to look for.

 

I really do think the yeast issue is not considered enough, reading the posts here. Perhaps it is the reason for some children why things don't get better with the antibiotics, perhaps not, but I do wonder.

 

I have heard there are now blood tests for yeast infections. Perhaps they work well, but I would also consider if you trust the results will be looked at well. I remember wanting chelation, getting a test for the metals, and the doctor thinks I don't need it, the levels aren't too high. Then I take an acid-blocker with aluminum in it (omeprazole, generic of prilosec), and start getting spasms all throughout my body. Yeah, I'm sure nothing to do with having too much aluminum. Maybe he was reading it right for most people, but not for sensitive me. So I'd have the same concern regarding a yeast test for someone with PANDAS/TS symptoms.

 

Michael

 

I agree with Michael. Though its so frustrating in our case to know my son should have been treated during the last episode (as I pleaded) for high test abx from our DAN!, it is clear I still learned a lot from my time with him. There are a couple tests for yeast but I know many would say they are unreliable with a large portion of false negatives. Our doc used to go by the symptoms Gat was presenting with and I do believe he was right on the money. We use Diflucan instead of Nystatin and it's worked well for us, historically, though I know many who have great success with Nystatin. There is also a wide array of naturals if you want to adopt the low and slow method of introducing antifungals. (oil of oregano, goldenseal, caprylic acid to name a few). During our good times, we use a few rotating naturals throughout the week. It kept things good for about a year and a half before it all broke loose again. Now with all of his PANDAS symtpoms back (separation anxiety & ocd), I'm seeing the tell tale yeast behaviors as well. It may all be PANDAS, it may all be candida but I'm sure not sitting around waiting to see what develops. Our DAN still insists on maintaining Gat's dose of Diflucan at the same strength he did 3 years ago when he was an emaciated 7th grader. I've asked him to increase his dose which I know from my pharmacist is possible at Gat's weight but he doesn't want to go that high. He's uncomfortable with abx altogether...which brings me here. We have very good gut support in place for 3 years here and he's at a normal weight with good eating and bowel habits so I really believe we've got more than yeast. Titers last time were through the roof and candida can't do that. What I really believe is that we have is a biofilm encasing strep and candida but we'll have to blast some high dose abx to get things stable before we can address that. The protocol for it is pretty easy to follow and from a bacterial/fungal survival of the fittest standpoint, the theory makes a lot of sense. In the meantime, good gut health can't be overstated.

Gat's mom.

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There are some health-food-store items you can try. I'll just say, I struggled for easily 6 months or more with an incredibly strict anti-candida diet and many helper over-the-counter items, and had extremely slow improvement which eventually topped off. And then, antifungals for a couple weeks, and it's night and day. So, for some, like me, the improvement would be so minimal it's just not going to be much of an indicator. And then, for others, I hear these things work great. I know for me, some of the problem is I was being exposed to wireless and fluorescent lights at work, and these things just got the candida going, and so that made lasting progress impossible. I think with over-the-counter stuff, you'll need a very strict anti-candida diet, which I imagine can be difficult for the children. But, some here have made these modifications, maybe you have or can, I don't know. It is hard, even for adults. Can anyone say, are these modifications needed with the prescription antifungals like nystatin and fluconazole? I don't know, I have just maintained my strict diet because I am desperate and used to it by now.

 

I hear the oregano oil is great stuff if your body can handle it. Mine can't. But, it won't be an indicator of yeast if things go well, because it is anti-everything, not just anti-fungal. NOW Candida Clear has caprylic acid and a few other items, and has helped me and Cheri's child as well. My experience is that Candex, by Pure Essence Labs is very good--just digestive enzymes, but ones meant to digest the yeast. Saccharomyces boulardi is a yeast meant to fight other yeast--I use Xymogen brand, but from what I hear Florastor is much more popular. Psyllium husk powder is great to help body remove dead yeast, but I don't expect it will kill them, so it's an adjunct. I weigh 130 pounds and take 1 teaspoon in the morning stirred into water. It is tasteless. There really is a lot out there. For some, strict diet and a few of these things really will work without antifungals. Not sure if that some is 10% or 90%, but I do know it wasn't enough for me.

 

Michael

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