rowingmom Posted October 3, 2013 Report Share Posted October 3, 2013 I have been aware of the progesterone/brain injury links mentioned in the first post for quite a while, although the mention of using synthetic progestins in place of the bioidentical hormone in the later posts makes me realize that few people understand there is a difference. Synthetic progestins can act quite differently from the bioidentical version. http://www.progesteronetherapy.com/traumatic-brain-injury.html#axzz2gfOA58A6 Medical references are posted on a link at the bottom of the page. The woman that writes this blog is very informed on the current research on bioidentical progesterone, and uses it to help alleviate her symptoms of chronic disease. She owns the company that sells her product (NatPro), but I really think she is in the game to help others, and not to just make money from sales. Her medical references for all of her comments on progesterone and vit D are extensive. The prices for this product are lower than for either Emerita or ProGest, and the concentrations of progesterone are higher. As I am approaching menopause, and DD is approaching puberty (both estrogen dominant periods in a woman's life), we are both using natural progesterone. We both find it to be calming. It hasn't really helped with the physical/pain problems of bartonella, but definately helps with anxiety and fight/flight feelings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EAMom Posted October 3, 2013 Report Share Posted October 3, 2013 Hi Rowing Mom, That is an interesting link. What dose of the cream are you using? The Nat Pro lady is recommending a higher dose vs the others. It's hard to know what to start with. I have many symptoms of estrogen dominance (I'm 48). I've also ordered some DIM, since it looks like many people are using the 2 together. http://www.amazon.com/Natures-Way-DIM-Plus-Capsules/dp/B00014IGXS/ref=sr_1_2?s=hpc&ie=UTF8&qid=1380815908&sr=1-2&keywords=Dim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicklemama Posted October 3, 2013 Report Share Posted October 3, 2013 Prometrium, which is what I take, is an FDA approved bio identical progesterone available by prescription. I've had zero problems with it and it has helped me be able to fall asleep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowingmom Posted October 3, 2013 Report Share Posted October 3, 2013 (edited) I tried DIM for a while before progesterone (because at one point California was forced to place the notification that progesterone is a known carcinogen on all packaging - once again the progestin/progesterone confusion, but I hadn't learned about that yet) but didn't really notice a difference. It was expensive at that time too (2005). None of my family seems to have a problem with sulpher or curciferous vegetables, so we eat lots of those. If I was you I would start with a small amount 2x daily (1/16 - 1/8 tsp) and do this for a while. If you start low, you will decrease the chance of an estrogen dominance reaction. If your hormone receptors are filled with estrogen and you start displacing it into circulation by the substitution of progesterone, your estrogen symptoms will increase. Like everything mentioned on this forum, start low and work up. As an alternative, Wray also suggests using really high doses to start, but being a chicken, I started low. In my case estrogen dominance included painful swelling of my varicose veins. I really thought I would have to discontinue because of this, even though it improved my mood, but after a while (a few days to a week) the pain and swelling subsided. I only get painful veins now just before my period starts, when estrogen is highest (even though I continue supplementing progesterone). At one point, when I was 48-49, I was taking 1/4 tsp NatPro (not sure of the dosage) 3x daily. It really helped with derealization, brain fog, palpitations, fatigue, morning-sickness-like nausea, anxiety/panic attacks, HEAVY periods and painful cramping. Since then I have always wondered if morning sickness is actually estrogen dominance caused by increased estrogen before the placenta starts producing higher amounts of progesterone. Now that I have started using Buhner to treat bartonella symptoms, I have been able to decrease my dosage to 1/8 tsp 3x daily. I haven't really tried huge doses of it, so I am not sure about progesterone dominance symptoms. Wray doesn't seem to think too much progesterone would even be a problem, but I am not so sure... I asked for an Rx for bioidentical progesterone from our doctor. He gave it to me saying "this stuff doesn't really work - it's only placebo effect". He needs to come back as a perimenopausal woman in his next life! It ended up costing me $78/ tube, and wasn't covered by our healthcare system because it didn't have the DIN number they need for reimbursement. So I found my own. Just like I found help for DD - all by myself (and with the help of you guys, of course!). Edited October 3, 2013 by rowingmom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EAMom Posted October 3, 2013 Report Share Posted October 3, 2013 (edited) Rowing Mom, Thanks for all the input. Yes...I wonder about the cost of the Rx. And even when covered, the copay might be more $ than just buying the OTC stuff (since a tube will last a couple of months). Since the DIM is already coming, I think I'll start with that in addition to the Pro-gest all at the (low) recommended dose. Then, I'll play it by ear. I guess I shouldn't be too worried about progesterone dominance. When I was pregnant (both times) it was awesome because for once I had NO migraines. Loved that! My main symptom (although I also get the menstrual migraines) that I am worried about now are the flooding periods. Eamom PS did you find the cream made you sleepy? Edited October 3, 2013 by EAMom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EAMom Posted October 3, 2013 Report Share Posted October 3, 2013 Prometrium, which is what I take, is an FDA approved bio identical progesterone available by prescription. I've had zero problems with it and it has helped me be able to fall asleep. Hmmm...might be good for those PANDAS kids that can't sleep?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowingmom Posted October 4, 2013 Report Share Posted October 4, 2013 (edited) I guess I shouldn't be too worried about progesterone dominance. When I was pregnant (both times) it was awesome because for once I had NO migraines. Loved that! My main symptom (although I also get the menstrual migraines) that I am worried about now are the flooding periods. Eamom PS did you find the cream made you sleepy? After the first month my heavy periods slowed to a trickle , and cramping became non-existant. I used to have to pop tylenol and lie in bed with a hotwater bottle, but no more. I hope it works for your migraines, they have never been a problem for me. And no, progesterone didn't make me sleepy at all, just more relaxed. Sleep definately comes easier at night though. Pay attention to your bothersome symptoms. If they aren't resolving after a couple months with the suggested amount of ProGest, I would try upping the dose a bit. I started out with ProGest, but found I was needing a more concentrated cream, or I would be slathering myself all day long. Edited October 4, 2013 by rowingmom EAMom 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EAMom Posted October 5, 2013 Report Share Posted October 5, 2013 (edited) Here's an interesting summary, "progesterone and the nervous system ". Use in men and boys is also mentioned. ADHD is also mentioned. http://www.healthwatchersnews.com/2010/09/progesterone-and-the-nervous-system/ Edited October 5, 2013 by EAMom EAMom 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4Nikki Posted October 5, 2013 Report Share Posted October 5, 2013 (edited) Please let me know what the neurologists says in regards to the Advil decongestant. That sounds interesting. Wonder if it effects any fungal issues which hide in sinuses or just calms inflammation. Did any of you read "Brain on Fire"? They discuss autoimmune encephalitis caused by cysts on the ovaries. Wonder if that connects with progesterone. Progesterone is suppose to be a calming hormone. Has anyone done hormonal panels on their PANDAS kids?Saw DD's Dr. Today, brought the Advil Decogestant. I was quit surprised when he said it was sufed which is a stimulant, as he commented and said it was a stimulant raising his eyebrows. And then to top it off, DDs mom couldnt find it on the iale so she asked the pharmacist and they had it behind the counter. I had not noticed it was actually a different product. The one i got. It was Advil decongestant and nasal relief, which had 30mg rather than 10mg. Dr. said it was being broken down and used as speed and might not be available for long. Very scary giving a stimulant to a raging person that can tear a door off its hinges. Dr. Gave a 30mg perscription that we will try as am experiment. He said it lasts for 12 or 13 hours and the dose is the lower dose which can go upto 70mg. Its kinda freaking me out because i hadnt noticed the dosage difference of the Advil till after i gave it to DD, which was 20mg less and this evening she had an emotional swing. She had not had any epsodes since we started her on the advil decongestant and nasal relief. So im a bit conflicted and not sure if i will get peace of mind. Especially having Dr.'s words stuck in my brain that his not sure if any Dr. would prescrib a stimulant. I've heard of the book but not read it. I'm thinking might though. So now im wondering if my afternoon sleepness going away maybe the result of a stimulant rather than a better nights rest. Edited October 5, 2013 by 4Nikki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowingmom Posted October 5, 2013 Report Share Posted October 5, 2013 EAMom. Thanks for the link. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EAMom Posted October 12, 2013 Report Share Posted October 12, 2013 Here's a good review article on bio identical hormones: http://jeffreydach.com/files/80618-70584/Review_Safety_Efficacy_Bioidentical_Hormones_Management_Menopause_Deborah_Moskowitz.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicklemama Posted October 12, 2013 Report Share Posted October 12, 2013 That was a great review article. Thanks! EAMom 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowingmom Posted October 13, 2013 Report Share Posted October 13, 2013 Thank you. It's been a while since I've been on the progesterone research path. Great refresher. EAMom 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qannie47 Posted October 14, 2013 Report Share Posted October 14, 2013 My opinion is that the reason some people feel better during pregnancy, especially after week 8-12 is because it is at that time that progesterone really kicks in to sustain placenta. I remember never feeling better, emotionally speaking at that time, and I wondered if there was a correlation between mood disorders and progesterone after having that experience. So I find this thread interesting. I can't see why birth control would work, because it mainly works on estrogen levels. I know wild sweet potato's are supposed to have natural progesterone in them..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EAMom Posted October 29, 2013 Report Share Posted October 29, 2013 Here's a life extension article on Progesterone. http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2006/apr2006_report_progesterone_01.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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