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I need to learn more about OCD. I have ordered some books, but it will be awhile before they are here...

I have an adult daughter who has had trich since she was about 7 (now in 30's). Eyelashes. Badly.

I have always thought of OCD as the person who washes hands constantly- the house- whatever they choose, but to do it repeatedly. She has started lying, telling half truths, going into rages on the phone, blaming me for absolutely everything possible-and not even possible. She is very maniulative, 'smooth', and a wonderful person to outsiders. She was in a mental hospital when she was 16 because of the lying, half truth, not taking responsibility- everything that she is now doing. When I suggest that she might be falling back into her old ways there is rage again- it is me that is sick- not her, etc.

Does rage, denial, lying also follow in OCD? As I said, in my mind OCD was more a repetative pattern. I need to learn more, to learn how to deal with her. I am at my wits end. It is like (I think) living with an alcoholic who blames everybody else.

I realize you cannot diagnose here- I just need to learn more.

Thank you

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I need to learn more about OCD. I have ordered some books, but it will be awhile before they are here...

I have an adult daughter who has had trich since she was about 7 (now in 30's). Eyelashes. Badly.

I have always thought of OCD as the person who washes hands constantly- the house- whatever they choose, but to do it repeatedly. She has started lying, telling half truths, going into rages on the phone, blaming me for absolutely everything possible-and not even possible. She is very maniulative, 'smooth', and a wonderful person to outsiders. She was in a mental hospital when she was 16 because of the lying, half truth, not taking responsibility- everything that she is now doing. When I suggest that she might be falling back into her old ways there is rage again- it is me that is sick- not her, etc.

Does rage, denial, lying also follow in OCD? As I said, in my mind OCD was more a repetative pattern. I need to learn more, to learn how to deal with her. I am at my wits end. It is like (I think) living with an alcoholic who blames everybody else.

I realize you cannot diagnose here- I just need to learn more.

Thank you

 

My son was diagnosed with OCD at the age of 6, and he's now 12, so we've been hooked into "the OCD community" for many years now. I would urge you to look up the OCD Foundation on the web, as they have excellent materials, articles, etc. regarding OCD. You might even find there is a local "branch" of the Foundation with bodies manning the office who can answer some of your questions, direct you to professionals in your area, etc.

 

From my own experience and the experience of others with OCD whom I've known for years, I would have to say, no, lying -- especially lying manipulatively -- is NOT a behavior generally attributable to OCD.

 

OCD takes many forms, and performing behaviors repeatedly (rituals) or being fearful of contamination (hand-washing) are emblematic of the disorder, but by no means the only form the behaviors take. I have seen rage, but it is normally turned inward, rather than outward, because the person with OCD is distressed by the compulsions they have and frustrated by their inability to controll the compulsions, obsessions or both. I suppose there are some points of denial, as well, because they don't want the outside world to see all of their eccentricities, so they try to accommodate themselves and don't always appreciate being called out when a compulsive behavior is noticable or even intrusive when it comes to operating in the world.

 

But most people with clinically-diagnosed OCD like my son seem to be absolutely incapable of lying in order to manipulate people or a situation; the OCD itself prevents telling or perpetuating a falsehood. Many, in fact, are what we call "compulsively confessional," relaying slights or unkindnesses, real or imagined, and feeling tremendous guilt over them.

 

I'm sorry to say, your daughter's situation sounds as though it is born of something else. :blink:

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  • 3 months later...

It could be OCD but it seems like it something else that is causing this behavior or that has ingrained this behavior in her. I would suggest she visits a doctor or psychiatrist. The problem is that she is 30 and an adult and you can't force her to go to a doctor. You can talk with her and hopefully she will make the decision. But I think the best thing is for a professional to treat and diagnose her. It just seems like it something deeper and more rooted from her past and not OCD.

Edited by Vega
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Hi--I'm so sorry you and your family have been through so much with this situation. Regarding your daughter's hair pulling, please see research below on an amino acid supplement that helped 56% of the patients with trichotillomania.

 

You are dealing with a complex case, and the underlying causes, beyond emotional issues, can range from a combination of viral or bacterial infection, environmental factors (diet, allergy, chemical exposures, reactions to medications), nutritional deficiencies, or other issues affecting her brain balance and central nervous system functioning.

 

To attempt to unravel this--(and there are no guarantees on outcome) you would need a physician who is skilled in assesing biological causes, beyond typical psychiatric approaches. This is called a "biomedical" approach. If this is something you are in a position to explore and have an inclination toward, we can discuss this further. Believe it or not, some people have found their OCD linked to a single food item, such as dairy, and rages linked to a deficiency in something as basic as essential fatty acids. I'm not suggesting this is the case for your daughter, and often an answer is more complex, but without looking for possibilities one simply never knows.

 

I sure wish you all the best in finding the help you need. Sheila

 

Arch Gen Psychiatry. 2009 Jul;66(7):756-63. N-acetylcysteine, a glutamate modulator, in the treatment of trichotillomania: a double-blind, placebo-controlled study. CONTEXT: Trichotillomania is characterized by repetitive hair pulling that causes noticeable hair loss. Data on the pharmacologic treatment of trichotillomania are limited to conflicting studies of serotonergic medications. N-acetylcysteine, an amino acid, seems to restore the extracellular glutamate concentration in the nucleus accumbens and, therefore, offers promise in the reduction of compulsive behavior. OBJECTIVE: To determine the efficacy and tolerability of N-acetylcysteine in adults with trichotillomania. DESIGN: Twelve-week, double-blind, placebo-controlled trial. SETTING: Ambulatory care center. PATIENTS: Fifty individuals with trichotillomania (45 women and 5 men; mean [sD] age, 34.3 [12.1] years). INTERVENTIONS: N-acetylcysteine (dosing range, 1200-2400 mg/d) or placebo was administered for 12 weeks. MAIN OUTCOME MEASURES: Patients were assessed using the Massachusetts General Hospital Hair Pulling Scale, the Clinical Global Impression scale, the Psychiatric Institute Trichotillomania Scale, and measures of depression, anxiety, and psychosocial functioning. Outcomes were examined using analysis of variance modeling analyses and linear regression in an intention-to-treat population. RESULTS: Patients assigned to receive N-acetylcysteine had significantly greater reductions in hair-pulling symptoms as measured using the Massachusetts General Hospital Hair Pulling Scale (P < .001) and the Psychiatric Institute Trichotillomania Scale (P = .001). Fifty-six percent of patients "much or very much improved" with N-acetylcysteine use compared with 16% taking placebo (P = .003). Significant improvement was initially noted after 9 weeks of treatment. CONCLUSIONS: This study, the first to our knowledge that examines the efficacy of a glutamatergic agent in the treatment of trichotillomania, found that N-acetylcysteine demonstrated statistically significant reductions in trichotillomania symptoms. No adverse events occurred in the N-acetylcysteine group, and N-acetylcysteine was well tolerated. Pharmacologic modulation of the glutamate system may prove to be useful in the control of a range of compulsive behaviors.

 

LINK: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19581567

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  • 5 months later...

Your dd sounds like mine. She is bipolar and/or possibly borderline personality disorder. In my opinion, borderline fits her more, but time will tell. A good book to read is "Stop Walking On Eggshells" by Randi Kreger. I read that book, and it was like reading my own life. There is also a website you can go to called bpd central. They have a support group called Welcome To Oz (WTO). It's has been a haven for me. I don't visit regularly, but the people there are wonderful and have gone or are going through the same thing as I am with my daughter. My daughter BLAMES me for everything. She sees black and white only (in that she cannot see that a good person can make a mistake; she sees them as bad or good, no gray areas). Her perception of things is so distorted that she cannot really see how things really are. Bipolar and Borderline Personality Disorder symptoms kind of overlap. My daughter does not have trichotillomania; however, I do. Sometimes she will pass by me while I'm pulling my scalp hair and smack my hand and say "stop it." I tell her that I pull my hair out TO KEEP FROM PULLING HERS OUT!!" Good luck there. My advice is to make her be responsible and accountable for her own actions...something I've failed in doing unfortunately. But I'm excited because it seems that there is a link between bipolar and PANDAS. Good luck!

 

My

I need to learn more about OCD. I have ordered some books, but it will be awhile before they are here...

I have an adult daughter who has had trich since she was about 7 (now in 30's). Eyelashes. Badly.

I have always thought of OCD as the person who washes hands constantly- the house- whatever they choose, but to do it repeatedly. She has started lying, telling half truths, going into rages on the phone, blaming me for absolutely everything possible-and not even possible. She is very maniulative, 'smooth', and a wonderful person to outsiders. She was in a mental hospital when she was 16 because of the lying, half truth, not taking responsibility- everything that she is now doing. When I suggest that she might be falling back into her old ways there is rage again- it is me that is sick- not her, etc.

Does rage, denial, lying also follow in OCD? As I said, in my mind OCD was more a repetative pattern. I need to learn more, to learn how to deal with her. I am at my wits end. It is like (I think) living with an alcoholic who blames everybody else.

I realize you cannot diagnose here- I just need to learn more.

Thank you

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But I'm excited because it seems that there is a link between bipolar and PANDAS.

 

 

 

Honestly, I think you should be very very careful about making an assumption like that

 

where it is of course very possible that someone may be misdiagnosed with BiPolar when they in fact may have PANDAS,

to say there is a "link between bipolar and PANDAS" is honestly just not accurate! and we do need to be careful about making such extrapolations here.

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