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Talk of self harm


dut

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Hello

 

I'm asking this question for a friend -

 

Have any parents had talk of killing oneself and self harm, such as cutting, in their kids as part of other PANDAS symptoms or even as stand alone symptoms?

 

Thanks for any input.

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talk of killing oneself and self harm, such as cutting, in their kids as part of other PANDAS symptoms

If your friend is scared, get help! Seriously, while vocalization is different from action you have to take every threat seriously.

 

When someone is vocalizing self harm it is a declaration of the degree of suffering they are going through, the height of the emotional hurt. It absolutely must be acknowleged and addressed.

 

Here's one site to look through that has some help http://www.brandonrha.mb.ca/en/Mental_Heal...and_Others.html

 

But please, please refer your friend to a psychiatrist or pschologist -- suicidal vocalizations must be addressed.

 

Our dd9 was literally in the middle of the pediatrician's office screaming at the top of her lungs "I need to die" "I need to be killed" -- the doctor came in and said "we have other patients, you will need to come back"... I've never been so mad in my life -- I'm like "here's your patient -- this is not normal!!!" Gratefully it wasn't more than that, but we were scared. Bottom line -- seek help.

 

Buster

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Ditto what Buster said.

 

When our son had his major overnight PANDAS explosion in Aug 2008, he started saying over and over "please, kill me. I just want to die." And other horrifying things along the same line. When a local psychiatrist loaded him up on zyprexa and ativan, that part got much worse. At one point - while we were momentarily distracted by our youngest (3) - our PANDAS son (12 at the time) grabbed a table knife and dragged it across one wrist. Luckily, it was a dull knife and barely left a mark... but it utterly TERRIFIED us!

 

We explained very clearly and carefully to him that, if he ever did anything remotely like that again, we would have to take him to the hospital for his own protection. Thank goodness, he never did. And once we tapered off the damned psych meds (per Dr. K's advice), this aspect of his PANDAS behavior virtually disappeared.

 

As Buster said, these poor PANDAS kids have their brains literally set on fire in a day or overnight. They are flooded with overwhelming, baffling, alien, and irrational thoughts unlike anything they've ever known. For our son - who prided himself on logic and rationality - this onslaught of mental chaos drove him to seek relief at any cost.

 

I'd say that, especially in conjunction with psych meds (many of which are "disinhibitory" for children or adolescents), this is a danger that cannot be ignored.

 

I pray your friend's child finds relief!

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I'm sorry to say that we too have been down that road!! Actually, threats of suicide during rage was my son's FIRST symptom of PANDAS this go around. Yes it's serious, Yes you cannot take your eye off of them. We actually did the opposite of worried dad as the Risperidal is what helped my son (for the moment) so everyone's different. But I did not take my eye off of him for 2 1/2 months!!! Literally he slept on the couch I sat in a recliner next to him setting my phone alarm for EVERY hour to evaluate him and make sure he was in a deep sleep. He was never out of my sight. He played outside I played out side, he went to the bathroom I stood outside the door. Every knife is hidden, every scissor, every upstairs room locked with a hidden key, he is NOT allowed up there alone, we have no guns ever, no chemicals in the house NOT EVEN WINDEX OR ANYTHING (they're hidden in the back of my van in a trash bag I get them - use them- put them back. No belts laying around to hang himself. No fireplace tools. NOTHING!!! Also school is aware of this in case he threatens at school.

But for my son it came only in episodes. Fits of rage, so he wasn't constantly trying to. One fit, right in the beginning when I didn't know how bad it was I had to literally smack him to make a bottle of DrainO fall out of his hand. It touched his lips but I got it in time. I had to call the police that time.

But if he goes on psych meds and you believe its worsening symptoms then GET HIM OFF OF THEM.

Hello

 

I'm asking this question for a friend -

 

Have any parents had talk of killing oneself and self harm, such as cutting, in their kids as part of other PANDAS symptoms or even as stand alone symptoms?

 

Thanks for any input.

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How old is the child? With cutting, I would think the child is experiencing a lot of anxiety and the cutting is the way to release it. The person also think they are getting control back by mutilating their body. I agree with all others, that it needs to be professionally addressed. Even it ended up being PANDAS related, you don't want the child to have permanent physical scars of the ordeal/disorder.

 

Actually, I wonder if cutting is an OCD spectrum disorder?

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Hello

 

I'm asking this question for a friend -

 

Have any parents had talk of killing oneself and self harm, such as cutting, in their kids as part of other PANDAS symptoms or even as stand alone symptoms?

 

Thanks for any input.

I was just reading a book about OCD in this kind of thoughts are very common in children with OCD, and they good news if it's part of OCD, those thoughts are never acted on. Of course, it sounds very scary, and better safe than sorry. Does her child have OCD, especially intrusive thoughts? She might want to seek profesional help, but then again she needs to be careful who she sees... I've just heard too many cases where the psychologist/social worker takes off on a tangent and the child ends up being removed/medicated/hospitalized unnecessarily.

 

Quoting from "What to do when your child has OCD" by Aureen Pinto Wagner, PhD., pp. 285-286

 

"....Sometimes she had the urge to poke her eyes out with a fork or stick her finger in a plug, to stab her mother with a knife or to kill her dog..."

The book goes on to explain we all have unwanted thoughts, which we dismiss, but "OCD sufferers experience them as a constant assault of horrific and loathsome thoughts; they can neither be dismissed nor controlled. Sufferers need to learn that thought is not equivalent to action...People with true OCD don't actually carry out their malicious thoughts, even though that is their worst fear."

 

Hope this helps!

 

Isabel

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My daughter is now 13 1/2, but when she was 11 (to be exact, 3 days before she turned 11 and I will never forget the date or the day) she had her first intrusive thoughts and they went on for days. At that time she cried and cried and said "I would rather be dead b/c I can't take it anymore". Turns out she had strep (we were not doing prophylactic antibiotics at the time) and when we started treating the strep the intrusive thoughts began to go away. She never attempted to hurt herself, but hearing those words from your beloved daughter causes you absolute panic and fear.

 

I definitely agree with previous posts about taking any threat seriously just be be on the safe side. A good psychiatric clinician can help figure this out.

 

Colleen

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Quoting from "What to do when your child has OCD" by Aureen Pinto Wagner, PhD., pp. 285-286

 

"....Sometimes she had the urge to poke her eyes out with a fork or stick her finger in a plug, to stab her mother with a knife or to kill her dog..."

The book goes on to explain we all have unwanted thoughts, which we dismiss, but "OCD sufferers experience them as a constant assault of horrific and loathsome thoughts; they can neither be dismissed nor controlled. Sufferers need to learn that thought is not equivalent to action...People with true OCD don't actually carry out their malicious thoughts, even though that is their worst fear."

 

Please. Have the child checked for strep or anything else related to a possible pandas issue. Get it documented in any way possible. My dd... shockingly announced things like this and I am not kidding.....just as often as the sneezing girl sneezes. And I am not kidding, when I watch Lauren on video it brings back painful memories of how often I heard this from a beautiful formally gifted kindergartner...and my own child. There is relief from pandas.... it is called IVIg and full-high strength antibiotics. It may not be a cure all....but it will bring hope. Good luck to that family.

 

regards,

amy s

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I don't want to scare the mom, but even if it is OCD related, it may be acted upon. look at hair pulling, picking, BDD to the extent of dramatic cosmetic surgery, etc. Those are OCD spectrum disorders and they are acted upon.

 

I agree, do tell the mom to take her for a strep test. There's nothing to lose by doing it, but a lot to gain if it comes back +.

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