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What is the general opinion on the theory of Dr's Stack and Sims and the idea of TS being caused by something similar to TMJ. I am the owner of a dental supply business and i have access to a lot of information about this. I have done a lot of research and found out that in the dental industry as a whole Dr. Stack is very highly respected. He is mentioned in some of the dentist's blogs as being one of the top 5 people in the U.S. in his field. (TMJ). I have passed his paper on to other dentists and ortho specialists and they all find his theory plausible. Also my 9yr old son, who is in the next room as i write this and is ticcing about 40 times a minute, has had jaw alignment issues from the start. I have noticed when he gets his braces tightened his tics often go away completely for a while and my own experience with having him use commercial mouthpieces has been mixed, but promising. I realize this subject has it's own thread but it's too long for me. I need some feedback from those who have tried this and some who have opinions about it. It makes sense to me. This thing is really starting to get me down.

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well as i stated on that other thread...it is possible that this is a factor for some people who tic but I do not feel it is "the" cause of Tourette Syndrome as, if it were, then why have people like my son (who has genetic TS) and others improved with other treatments and have no TMJ diagnosis or dental intervention

 

if you also visit our PANDAS forum you will find many parents whose children tic because of strep

 

we also have parents here whose children have stopped ticcing after dietary modifications, as it appears that certain food (and environmental) allergies can trigger tics.

Frequently it is multiple factors that may trigger tics

 

so again, and this is just my personal opinion, where it is possible that tics are triggered by TMJ for some people, I think it a stretch to suggest that this is the cause of tics for everyone, and most emphatically disagree that this is the "only" cause of tics for people with genetic Tourette Syndrome, as suggested in some of the research work I have read by Drs Sims and Stack, who, although they may be excellent and highly respected dentists, yet are extrapolating their theory into areas that IMHO they dont have all the answers for, or knowledge about, as evidenced by the many members here whose kids tic for many varied reasons and who have seen positive results from other treatment methods than dental

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I think its very plausibe...my ds who i am dealing with has the same crazy toes as his father who tics...so why couldn't their jaw/neck structure be the same?

And since my dh has 2 different parents, my son has some of me in him and puts the structure a little differnt from that causing different tics...or maybe that irrelevant and the one side is more prevelent and that is the issue.

 

I believe he also had pandas now pitands. Low Iga would explain over reaction to spring pollens when this episode set in....(the day before onset 4/5/09 no tics at all for 5 months, ds asked to see doc said ds had shiners ,glands swollen, throat raw, ears don't look great.) 4/6/09 jumping hundreds of times a day..Lord help me.(ps 4/5/009 highest pollen count 3800ish average count in 20's. also on 4/5 we were driving in car for 8 hrs...pinched neck?

I also believe he also had rheumatic fever at 5 from strep as he started the shoulder shrug we never saw before and when we took him to the hospital they said his joint pain was from the penicillen ...why didn't they say or it could be from the strep we are still fighting for a couple of week...(how can i find out if he is really allergic to penicilian,,,,its good to be able to keep things in your arsinal)(or was he grinding his teeth do to the infection which caused the tics....i am open, why stop at 1 possiblity

 

But he his first teeth were out at 2 months and i can remember hearing him grind his teeth in his crib at 1 year old....eye blink with allergies then strep started at 2.

what came first..the chicken or the egg

 

As per Dr stacks this morning whom i saw over thanksgiving my ds joint in ground down due to grinding teeth...he's a little concerned this could lead to authoriis in his jaw.....isn't arthistis an autoimmune disease...so if that joint is now more pouruous because its letting things in is that why he grinds his teeth.(and a ton of teeth issues still)

 

I've gotten the appliance from Dr Garcia about 4 wks ago and i think dr g is going slower like Dait's dr....anywahy dr g and dr stacks both say it can take more like 6 weeks to see results...the others were show offs.(i am so busy but there is alot to fill in)

both felt spasms in my kids neck and alot of other stuff. not one obvious item.(maybe i need to get orthotics to help him stand straight too, that's just me thinking)

Both are still teaching!

 

Here is the theory...i think we used to think that whales (or dolphins or was it elephants) couldn't talk...well we just couldn't hear them because the tone was so low we couldn't hear them with our ears.

so instead of pinch were there is pain and things are constrained....its more like its too open w/o pain and a flood where there is an overflow of information

 

And this is still more of an art form and the exact 1/2mm for someone might be 10 year from now as they are still learning and this was a stumble on as a correlation.

So only a handful of dr know or are doing anything with this. And my honest concern is we're trying to shoot a moving target, my kid has grown at least 2 inches in the last six months!

 

To me, my kid is obviouly prone to tic disorders,,maybe one causes the other, maybe they are seperate things i have to watch, but Doc/Nero's should consider the tmj and low immune system as the "genetic cause" they can't seem to find and look at other things outside their comfort box....if you told me drinking wine makes your fingers nails hurt, then so be it .....let's be carefull how we say things

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Thanks to both of you for your replies. I agree with both of you. I do think foods, or non-foods as it were, are involved and i see a clear connection with the TMJ. I could easily get the opinion that TMJ is at the root of all of it though. My son is better today, why i don;t know. He went to the acupuncturist and she has always had mixed results with him, but he is now ticcing twice an hour instead of 42 times a minute like last night. I could live with this all day. She thinks it was preservatives in the chicken he ate on Sunday but i have called corp HQ of the store i bought it and they say no MSG. Thanks again to both of you, i needed it.

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What is the general opinion on the theory of Dr's Stack and Sims and the idea of TS being caused by something similar to TMJ. I am the owner of a dental supply business and i have access to a lot of information about this. I have done a lot of research and found out that in the dental industry as a whole Dr. Stack is very highly respected. He is mentioned in some of the dentist's blogs as being one of the top 5 people in the U.S. in his field. (TMJ). I have passed his paper on to other dentists and ortho specialists and they all find his theory plausible. Also my 9yr old son, who is in the next room as i write this and is ticcing about 40 times a minute, has had jaw alignment issues from the start. I have noticed when he gets his braces tightened his tics often go away completely for a while and my own experience with having him use commercial mouthpieces has been mixed, but promising. I realize this subject has it's own thread but it's too long for me. I need some feedback from those who have tried this and some who have opinions about it. It makes sense to me. This thing is really starting to get me down.

 

Hi, my daughter has been with the ALF appliance for almost a month, and we cannot answer your question yet. The dentist who made the appliance for her said her TMJ is so compressed, he would have had to make her appliance so tall, that she wouldnt be able to eat. So he's going slowly, providing some vertical support, and hoping that as the upper arch widens with the treatment, pressure on the joint will ease. So far tics have been changing from day to day. Some days are exceptionally good, but others are as ususal.

However, from all I've read in this forum, it seems to me that everyone who went to be checked, even if the appliance did not help, is indeed suffering from some kind of missalignment, or compressed TMJ.

 

So I'm sending the question back to you, as you are in the dental business and have many connections:

Do we know what precentage of the population is suffering from similar missalignments, and is it different from the percentage in the TS population?

It seems to me that a simple inexpensive experiment can answer the question: x-raying a group of TS and a control group of non-TS, and seeing if a considerable difference in results emerges.

 

Dalit

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What is the general opinion on the theory of Dr's Stack and Sims and the idea of TS being caused by something similar to TMJ. I am the owner of a dental supply business and i have access to a lot of information about this. I have done a lot of research and found out that in the dental industry as a whole Dr. Stack is very highly respected. He is mentioned in some of the dentist's blogs as being one of the top 5 people in the U.S. in his field. (TMJ). I have passed his paper on to other dentists and ortho specialists and they all find his theory plausible. Also my 9yr old son, who is in the next room as i write this and is ticcing about 40 times a minute, has had jaw alignment issues from the start. I have noticed when he gets his braces tightened his tics often go away completely for a while and my own experience with having him use commercial mouthpieces has been mixed, but promising. I realize this subject has it's own thread but it's too long for me. I need some feedback from those who have tried this and some who have opinions about it. It makes sense to me. This thing is really starting to get me down.

 

Hi, my daughter has been with the ALF appliance for almost a month, and we cannot answer your question yet. The dentist who made the appliance for her said her TMJ is so compressed, he would have had to make her appliance so tall, that she wouldnt be able to eat. So he's going slowly, providing some vertical support, and hoping that as the upper arch widens with the treatment, pressure on the joint will ease. So far tics have been changing from day to day. Some days are exceptionally good, but others are as ususal.

However, from all I've read in this forum, it seems to me that everyone who went to be checked, even if the appliance did not help, is indeed suffering from some kind of missalignment, or compressed TMJ.

 

So I'm sending the question back to you, as you are in the dental business and have many connections:

Do we know what precentage of the population is suffering from similar missalignments, and is it different from the percentage in the TS population?

It seems to me that a simple inexpensive experiment can answer the question: x-raying a group of TS and a control group of non-TS, and seeing if a considerable difference in results emerges.

 

Dalit

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I am a chiropractor and I have never heard of a TMJ connection with tics or TS before I saw it on the forum here, but I find it very interesting. I have been out of school for 10 years so I may have missed some research as well. I know from adjusting my 6 year old on Sunday that he had some massive spasm at the top of his neck on the right that may be affecting or being affected by his TMJ. I will start assessing and treating his TMJ and let you guys know how it goes. As well I have another patient who I believe is around 11 and has all of my son Zack's symptoms exactly (amazing how you see it in other kids once you see it in your own) including the ADD and anxiety -- I will assess his TMJ as well. I would not underestimate the potential of TMJ involvement here as I have seen very profound headaches and impairment due to TMJ and upper neck involvement in adults over the years.

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I am a chiropractor and I have never heard of a TMJ connection with tics or TS before I saw it on the forum here, but I find it very interesting. I have been out of school for 10 years so I may have missed some research as well. I know from adjusting my 6 year old on Sunday that he had some massive spasm at the top of his neck on the right that may be affecting or being affected by his TMJ. I will start assessing and treating his TMJ and let you guys know how it goes. As well I have another patient who I believe is around 11 and has all of my son Zack's symptoms exactly (amazing how you see it in other kids once you see it in your own) including the ADD and anxiety -- I will assess his TMJ as well. I would not underestimate the potential of TMJ involvement here as I have seen very profound headaches and impairment due to TMJ and upper neck involvement in adults over the years.
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Many of the TMJ "experts" i have spoken with describe the TMJ symptoms and reactions as being very similar to Tourettes. I am going to keep following this lead to the end. I am taking my son to see Dr. Stack. I am also scheduled to hear him speak at a dental conference. I don't believe he has all the answers but i do think he's on to something.

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Hi

 

I wanted to report back as well that as my son is having a wisdom tooth extracted, we had an evaluation done and it does not seem that he has any TMJ problems

 

we have a history of TS dating back 3 generations on my husband's side, and also possible TS in cousins on my own father's side

 

again, where I can absolutely see that tics (and other neuro disorders) may be caused by TMJ for some people, and may even intensify tic issues for people with TS, yet I think my son is now clear evidence of someone who has inherited TS with no TMJ

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