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Signs of OCD in a young child


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These are all really great examples. I will edit the original post by tonight. I was thinking that I'll change this to a format that lists common obsessions & common compulsions - and then lists our examples below each category. You can let me know if you think that an example is miscategorized. I'll also add the requirements for a "worry" to be OCD versus "normal childhood": Obsessions are: Intrusive (come into your mind without your wanting them), Irrational (concern things that make no sense or go beyond rational), Recurrent (keep replaying), Disturbing, and Anxieity Producing. I find sometimes that with young children, that because they do not always have "insight" that the thought or behaviour is not normal, sometimes they are not Disturbed or Anxious, so long as they can perform their compulsion. Adults know the compulsion (behavior) is odd, and that causes them additional anxiety. Sometimes kids only become anxious if the ritual is interrupted.

 

Categories for Obsessions are: Contamination, Harm to Self or Others, Symmetry Urges (or "Just Right" OCD), Doubting, Numbers, Scrupulosity, Magical thinking, Hoarding, and Sexual Themes. Categories for Compulsions are: Washing & Cleaning, Checking, Symmetry, Counting, Repeating/Redoing, Hoarding, Praying. The tricky thing ins that there are so many ways for the compulsion to manifest, and there is no logic to what compulsion gets attached to the obsession. Usually we see the compulsion in the child - and they may not be able to explain (or want to explain) the obsession behind that ritual. So I'll just put things where they seem to go so that other parents can see our examples.

 

Sometimes certain obsessions do tend to link up with specific rituals a lot of the time. OCDChicago does a good job of illustrating this - they start like this:

Fear of contamination or germs.. . leads to .....Washing/ cleaning

Fear of harm or danger.. . leads to ......Checking

Fear of losing somet hing valuable . . leads to ......Hoarding

Fear of violating religious rules . . . . . leads to .....Preoccupation with religious observances

Need for symmetry . . leads to .....“Evening up” or arranging

Need for perfection . . leads to ......Seeking reassurance or doing things “just right”

 

I do have a few questions on your examples, so I'll add those here:

 

SmartyJones - what do you mean by there is "only yes or no and neither will suffice". I am guessing that you mean that the world becomes very black & white (yes or no, never maybe). But because it is not really black & white, the child becomes incredibly frustrated by simple answers that either they need to give, or they need to get from you. Sometimes the frustration may be because they feel that they are lying and so cannot answer a simple question. Or they want an answer from you - and if you say yes, they can think of 100 reasons that you could be wrong & if you say no, they can also think why that would be wrong - so no matter what you answer, there are other possibilities, and they need 100% certainty. I usually think of this as falling under "doubting", need for perfection, or scrupulosity.

 

BriCanady - yours gave me shivers - brought back some bad memories. What do you mean by "can't cross over numbers when using calculator/computer"?

 

On all the food questions - I guess there is always a question with children that have PANDAS as to whether a symptom is sensory vs. OCD. And perhaps the sensory feeds the OCD in many cases - we often found that to be true. In our case, our daughter would say that she "just did not like" a food anymore - but as she has gotten better, she is able to tell us that the food actually was scaring her - she thought it would make her ill - either from a spot or too much sugar, or whatever. It has still made her nervous to try the food again - but she is very excited to add them back. During the episode, she just did not want to have to argue about it - but she always seemed so sad that she did not like her favorite things anymore. For us, it was OCD related to a fear of contamination or illness.

 

Bronxmom - can you elaborate? Do you mean that violent images come into his mind (intrusive thoughts) that he cannot get rid of? Thoughts of harm to self or to others?

 

..Can't cross over numbers when using calculator/computer...my son is in GT Albegra class and it took him six hours to complete a test because he can't "go across/over numbers"..he must move his hand around the calculator to the numbers on the outside first and if he touches another key he must start again...same thing with letters on the computer. Thank goodness the teacher is a friend and called me to let me know what was going on..she tired to break his "pattern" several times and kept incouraging him to move forward....his grade was a 97 !!!!

 

I do want to mention that he had an IVIG on November 13th and most of his "tics" have disappeared !!..still does "What if" mostly late at night, when he is tired....I was amazed to read that other children say the same things....the furball comment really hit home...wow!!!!

 

This thread is very helpful....great idea !!!

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I was wondering if anyone else has seen eating problems as a result of being unable to disengage from compulsive behaviors. My daughter is lining things up- I can spoon feed her during it, but she will not come away from it to eat or feed herself.

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I don't know how this would relate to OCD, but my gut tells me it does.

 

After my son got a strep test done, he'd be home and tell us he wanted us to break into the doctor's office at night and steal the swab with his spit on it. He didn't want them to have his spit. He needed to have it back.He was very serious and saw that as a reasonable demand. He would refer to us doing this for a week or more after the test was done.

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I don't know how this would relate to OCD, but my gut tells me it does.

 

After my son got a strep test done, he'd be home and tell us he wanted us to break into the doctor's office at night and steal the swab with his spit on it. He didn't want them to have his spit. He needed to have it back.He was very serious and saw that as a reasonable demand. He would refer to us doing this for a week or more after the test was done.

I have read about this a lot under hoarding OCD - needing to keep anything that comes from their bodies. In older kids there are a variety of obsessions behind this. Kids will not blow their nose, swallow spit, let nails be clipped, wash, etc. You can imagine the bathroom issues from this. I'm sure it could fall under other categories, depending on the obsession, but that is the main one that I have heard about.

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That makes sense. when I think hoarding, I think of keeping little pieces of paper that mean nothing. Collections for everything. Things like that. As the psychologist explained it, collections of special things is one thing, but keeping things that shouldn't really have any special meaning behind it is another.

 

Luckily, the spit with the strep test was the only bodily function he needed to keep to himself:)

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Hi - Usually the "need to say a bad word" is categorized under the "tic side of PANDAS" - often called Coprolalia. Do you think it is that or am I missing this example a little? I agree with need to repeat certain words or mantras - almost like a prayer? I'll add that one. And then let me know how to better understand the use of obscenities (maybe the same thing?) and I'll think about where to put this.

 

yes - that's what i thought too. i wanted to add about the repeating words or mantras and i was looking through my notes etc b/c i thought there was a name for that - something like preserverance or something? i couldn't find the term i was looking for. that's when i saw that on webpediatrics.com, it's listed under OCD rather than under physical symptoms where tics is listed, where they include vocal tics. it may be that is just their way of separating mental issues from strictly physical for ease of understanding for someone who is just discovering everything.

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I would add: It is often "normal" behavior carried to an extreme.

 

All of the OCD behaviors may often be considered "normal" . . . but it is the severity and frequency that sets it apart...

 

such a good, good point! when i tried to explain many things, it could easily sound like a normal, 4 year old boy being obnoxious and people couldn't understand unless that could see that severity and frequency!

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I was thinking that I'll change this to a format that lists common obsessions & common compulsions - and then lists our examples below each category.

 

Usually we see the compulsion in the child - and they may not be able to explain (or want to explain) the obsession behind that ritual.

 

Sometimes certain obsessions do tend to link up with specific rituals a lot of the time. OCDChicago does a good job of illustrating this - they start like this:

Fear of contamination or germs.. . leads to .....Washing/ cleaning

Fear of harm or danger.. . leads to ......Checking

Fear of losing somet hing valuable . . leads to ......Hoarding

Fear of violating religious rules . . . . . leads to .....Preoccupation with religious observances

Need for symmetry . . leads to ....."Evening up" or arranging

Need for perfection . . leads to ......Seeking reassurance or doing things "just right"

 

meg's mom - i will certainly always defer to your judgment b/c i think of you as the definitive expert in OCD and your posts are so level-headed and reasonable. what would you think of keeping the order as the examples of behavior and then a definition of the OCD thought?

 

as i'm reading this i'm thinking about that i used to work for an environmental organization in their legislative office on Capital Hill (can you tell i'm a bit of a hippie - environmentalism, homeopathy?). we had to always be cautious when working with members or other organizations elsewhere to not use our 'inside the beltway vernacular'. who is the audience you're seeking to write this for? is it 'innocent' parents who are trying to discover what's up with their child and all they know is that there's some whacky behaviors going on. i tend to think they could identify with the behaviors first and then move to the definition of what it means in OCD terms.

 

still now, we are not sure of the level of thought for my son -- we only see the behavior. lately, he's usually able to get out of the behavior fairly easily without much life disruption so our psych doesn't at this time believe we need to investigate the thoughts. i should add that i think that correlates with what i think is healing from a physical medical basis.

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I would add: It is often "normal" behavior carried to an extreme.

 

All of the OCD behaviors may often be considered "normal" . . . but it is the severity and frequency that sets it apart...

 

such a good, good point! when i tried to explain many things, it could easily sound like a normal, 4 year old boy being obnoxious and people couldn't understand unless that could see that severity and frequency!

 

Yes! Like acting like you are Dorothy from the Wizard of Oz with a basket and a stuffed Toto and blue dresses and braids every day for 6 months at age 4. So many of our issues seem normal if taken out of context of our daily life.

 

Susan

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SmartyJones - what do you mean by there is "only yes or no and neither will suffice". I am guessing that you mean that the world becomes very black & white (yes or no, never maybe). But because it is not really black & white, the child becomes incredibly frustrated by simple answers that either they need to give, or they need to get from you. Sometimes the frustration may be because they feel that they are lying and so cannot answer a simple question. Or they want an answer from you - and if you say yes, they can think of 100 reasons that you could be wrong & if you say no, they can also think why that would be wrong - so no matter what you answer, there are other possibilities, and they need 100% certainty. I usually think of this as falling under "doubting", need for perfection, or scrupulosity.

 

 

i read that quote in a book this past summer. unfortunately, i don't have the reference on my notes for what book is was. i am not sure if that is more a symptom of general and/or situational anxiety or OCD. yes, i mean that things become very black and white. for my son, i think it would be a need for perfection and or just rightness. again, in our situation, we have not been able to uncover the underlying thoughts, we only seen the behaviors.

 

maybe it's better said as decisions seeming monumental and difficult. that's OCD, correct? i think it's the same issue of need for correctness. if it's a choice of OJ or milk, if i pick OJ, what if that's not the right choice? i'm still not able to understand how you discover an underlying thought vs. just worried it's not the best/right choice. what is the difference between doubting and symmetry?

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For me, that is the comfort of this board.... having other parents that understand this is not normal. And it is not my child being a brat. And my child does not just need more discipline. And this is not the same as another child's everyday tantrum. Sometimes when I am talking to the very few people I have told anything, I see their faces and they compare it to another child. I just stop talking. It is hard to understand it until you experience it first hand.

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For me, that is the comfort of this board.... having other parents that understand this is not normal. And it is not my child being a brat. And my child does not just need more discipline. And this is not the same as another child's everyday tantrum. Sometimes when I am talking to the very few people I have told anything, I see their faces and they compare it to another child. I just stop talking. It is hard to understand it until you experience it first hand.

 

I still get this and with everything I've learned, it's still hard to deal with from other parents, friends, family, doctors. I find I do share a lot less than I used to.

 

Susan

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