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Any one heard of Dr. Sims


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Hi Dalit.

 

We are also in LA, and my 8 yo son has been having a significant waxing for the last couple of weeks. Would you be able to share any contact info for this specialist who is coming to LA, and the osteopath that he is working with? I would like to learn more, especially if there is a short (and upcoming) window in October to possibly do something about this.

 

Thank you!

 

-- Liane

 

Sorry for not writing earlier. We had some turbulent days. We ended up not going to Maryland.

 

As I wrote in my last post, Dr. Stack referred us to Dr. Nordstrom, who is the ALF inventor (I added links to info about it in my last post).

It was very hard to get in touch with him, as he is so busy, and his office told me he has a huge waiting list. We scheduled a phone consult with him, and he was not able to call us as his office appointements continued longer than expected.

 

Since we wanted to take advantage of the vacation, we decided to go ahead and fly to DC, we had appoinments with both Sims and Stack, and had all hotels booked etc. Then, 3 days before we were scheduled to fly, Dr Nordstrom called us. He will be able to see us in October when he comes to LA, and he thinks he will be able to tell if the source of the problem is bone pressure on nerves. So we cancelled the trip (hopefully we'll get some money reimbursed) and went for a close by (less expensive) vacation as a compensation for our dissapointed children.

 

The ALF method balances and encourages correct bone and joint placement, and it does it gently and over time (they compare it to Homeopathy vs regular medicine - encouraging the body to heal itself, instead of pushing it). This means that results will not be as immediate as in Drs. Sims and Stack's method, but i have a feeling that perhaps for children this is a more appropriate approach, gentler and slower. In LA, Nordstrom also works with an Osteopath (anyone has experience with it?). he think that combining treatments works better, helps in diagnosis, and improves results. our appointment with the osteopath is in two weeks.

 

mylittleangel, I think taking your son's case to the convention is wonderful.

 

It seems to me that there is a simple inexpensive scientific experiment that can be conducted. I am trying to run it through people I know in the school for pediatric dentsitry, and maybe you can suggest the same to your contacts. What we really need to know is whether there is a larger precentage of TMJ problems in the tourrete and tic community than in the regular population. All that's needed for preliminary results are a few dozens ticcers who'll agree to take tmj x-rays, and the same for a control group.

 

Dalit

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Liane,

 

As I understand, Dr. Nordstrom travels all the time, working with different osteopaths and dentists around the country (mainly in the west coast, i think) in order to teach his method. I'm still not sure how he works with others, but in my case, I contacted him first by email, and after some back and forth correspondence, and a phone consult, his office instructed me to contact the osteopath in LA, and schedule with them. I am still not sure how adjustments will be handled, as he is in LA only once every 3 months. Maybe the osteopath handles them, but we are ready to travel to the bay area once a month, if necessary.

The links are: 1. a list of contact info to all ALF practitioners 2. Dr. Dolgin's website in Santa Monica 3. Dr. Hagopian's details (a second osteopath he is working with in Santa Monica). We will be seeing Dr. Dolgin on the 15th.

 

By the way, i undertand that Dr. Nordstrom doesn't have a lot of experiecnce with tics, since he was never approached by people to treat it in the past (he mentioned 3 patients to whom he's helped), but he is in touch with Dr Stack, and thinks he can help others. It is my understading that Dr Stack sometimes uses the ALF in his treatment.

 

http://www.alforthodontics.com/Practitione...amp;%20Labs.htm

http://www.osteohome.com/

http://www.vitals.com/doctors/Dr_Stefan_Hagopian.html

 

 

Dalit

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Liane,

 

As I understand, Dr. Nordstrom travels all the time, working with different osteopaths and dentists around the country (mainly in the west coast, i think) in order to teach his method. I'm still not sure how he works with others, but in my case, I contacted him first by email, and after some back and forth correspondence, and a phone consult, his office instructed me to contact the osteopath in LA, and schedule with them. I am still not sure how adjustments will be handled, as he is in LA only once every 3 months. Maybe the osteopath handles them, but we are ready to travel to the bay area once a month, if necessary.

The links are: 1. a list of contact info to all ALF practitioners 2. Dr. Dolgin's website in Santa Monica 3. Dr. Hagopian's details (a second osteopath he is working with in Santa Monica). We will be seeing Dr. Dolgin on the 15th.

 

By the way, i undertand that Dr. Nordstrom doesn't have a lot of experiecnce with tics, since he was never approached by people to treat it in the past (he mentioned 3 patients to whom he's helped), but he is in touch with Dr Stack, and thinks he can help others. It is my understading that Dr Stack sometimes uses the ALF in his treatment.

 

http://www.alforthodontics.com/Practitione...amp;%20Labs.htm

http://www.osteohome.com/

http://www.vitals.com/doctors/Dr_Stefan_Hagopian.html

 

 

Dalit

Thanks you!

 

Have you seen anyone else in LA for this? I would love any recommendations you might have for any medical practitioner. I am also considering that he may be an atypical PANDAS case, and am following up on that this week. I have seen only one PANDAS doctor listed for LA, in Burbank, but maybe you know of others?

 

Thanks again.

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This is my first post, but I have been following this link with great interest. I did speak with Gail, whose son has experienced significant success with the bite splint made my Dr. Sims. I know that Michael from Tampa had an appointment last week with the doctor from Tampa. Have we heard any information from him? I am scheduled to take my son tomorrow to Tampa to meet with this doctor, whose name is Dr. Ralph Garcia. I originally was planning on flying up to see Dr. Sims, but decided to try and stay local, since we live in Orlando. My son is 15 and has tics involving the eyes, nose, facial grimace and throat clearing. The tics morph from one thing to another - all confined to the neck and above. Interestingly, when he was 3 years old, he had an acciident from jumping off of the couch (my dh was babysitting - lol) and banged his chin and bit his tongue. The bite was so deep, the tongue needed to be stitched (dreadful moment). Anyway, his first tic, which was eye blinking, surfaced when he was 4 years old. Who knows if this is related, but I have decided to bite the bullet and give this appliance a shot. My son also tested positive for Pandas, but this wasn't caught until he was 10 years old - and the antibiotics made no difference. I have tried vitamns, supplements, neurofeedback, accupuncture, etc. and figured we might as well add this to the list. Wish us luck!!

 

Sincerely,

Beth

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Beth,

 

I did have that appointment with Dr. Garcia. My intention was that he would adjust the appliance I got from Dr. Sims. That did not happen, and he was pushing that I used his appliances. He actually has one for sleeping and one for waketime. He thinks his are better. I can see some ways in which his might be better. He says all his clients eat with their appliances in. He thinks that to not do that is like having a knee brace for a problem knee and then not wear it when you go jogging or running. I'm not sure I buy that analogy (my teeth are closed plenty on each other even when I'm not eating), and isn't it that closure that is aggravating nerves, but it is an interesting point to consider. I haven't made any decisions yet, other than to go back and discuss with him, armed with a long list of questions, which I am still preparing here and there. For example, as I wake up unable to breathe sometimes and it is a real struggle to get that going each time (sleep apnea or something that kind of looks like it), I have to wonder if his nighttime appliance which may lock things into place a bit more, is going to make it harder to survive when this happens. Also, my biggest Tourette's related issue is fluorescent light sensitivity, and I want to have some reason to think his new appliances are going to fix that, rather than just get another appliance that isn't dealing with an issue that is critical for me. As background, the appliance I got from Dr. Sims really helped my emotional stability, which is great, but had no improvement on the more physical symptoms (light sensitivity and spasms/tics). It doesn't seem that the knowledge base is that great to say that these symptoms are fixed by adjusting this dislocation here, and these other symptoms relate to this other dislocation there, and so on.

 

Good luck with your appointment! I'll be interested to hear how it goes. By the way, Dr. Garcia is very highstrung, so you might want to be prepared for that.

 

Michael

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Thanks so much for your post, Michael. We had our visit with Dr. Garcia on Thursday. I don't know exactly what I was expecting, but it was very surprising. The physical exam of my son involved the manipulation of various pressure points located on his face and neck. Dr. Garcia was engaging and playful with my son. He told my son to let him how the pressure points felt - on a scale of 1-4 - with 4 being "Dr. Garcie, please stop, I don't like that!" To my surprise, most of the pressure points were 3s and 4s. Dr. Garcia commented that my son had extensive spasming going on in his neck. I almost felt like crying never having realized the amount of tension and spasms my son had been experiencing. In addition, there were many tests involving wires affixed to his head and neck - and then biting and releasing. The computer was able to gauge the muscles being used. The tests were Electromyography (muscle test), EGM - which checks the range of motion of the jaw, the JVA - checking joint vibrations. At one point, a small magnet wrapped in gauze as put inside his lower lip. My son was given a piece of gum and asked to chew on the right side, left side, etc. I am curious if Dr. Sims performs these tests or similar ones. In addition, there were x-rays done also.

 

The woman performing many of the computer tests told me an interesting story. Her son, 8 years prior, had tics. He was 4 years old at this time. She noticed when he ate that his tics worsened. Since she was already working with Dr. Garcia, she asked him to look at her son and that perhaps the tics were being exacerbated by the chewing motion. Dr. Garcia agreed with her, and he created the bite splint for her son. Sure enough, once the splint was in place, the tics stopped. She actually videotaped her son - and I was able to see the DVD. In addition, her now 11 year old son came to the office while we were there (school had just let out and the bus drops him there). He came into the room to meet us - and he was completely tic free. Dr. Garcia actually credits her for the theory about the splint reducing the tics caused from tension and muscles spasming of the jaws. I have a copy of the DVD - it isn't professional at all, but I think I should upload it so you can see the results.

 

Bottom line - we are returning next Thursday for the splints. Total cost is around $3200. There will be 2 of them. One is worn during the day at all times. You are able to eat with it in your mouth and you do not take it out until bedtime. The second is bigger, but it allows complete muscle relaxation of the jaws and keeps the jaws from being able to clench. Dr. Garcia showed me a paper that he presented in March 2002 at the International Association for Dental Research regarding this special night appliance and its superior ability to reduce night clenching versus a normal orthodpedic repositioning applicance.

 

I am hopeful but cautious - and I certainly will let everyone know our results. Wish us luck!

Sincerely,

Beth

PS - If you have any questions, I am happy to answer them.

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Beth,

No, Dr. Sims did not perform anything like you describe when we were there. What exactly was he looking for? evidence of TMJ disorder? Does he agree with the trigeminal nerve being compromised or a problem? What exactly will this splint do for your son? I still don't really understand what a splint accomplishes. I understand about the teeth clenching and chewing motion, however, what about the times that is not happening, like my son is downstairs right now and not eating, but he is ticcing away with his vocal, so I don't necressarily see a diminishing, or an increase while eating. so I don't know,.... Was he able to simulate what this splint will do? or are you just going to try it and see if it helps? Does he agree with what Dr. Sims proposes and is doing with his patients for tics?

 

Thanks

Faith

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Beth,

No, Dr. Sims did not perform anything like you describe when we were there. What exactly was he looking for? evidence of TMJ disorder? Does he agree with the trigeminal nerve being compromised or a problem? What exactly will this splint do for your son? I still don't really understand what a splint accomplishes. I understand about the teeth clenching and chewing motion, however, what about the times that is not happening, like my son is downstairs right now and not eating, but he is ticcing away with his vocal, so I don't necressarily see a diminishing, or an increase while eating. so I don't know,.... Was he able to simulate what this splint will do? or are you just going to try it and see if it helps? Does he agree with what Dr. Sims proposes and is doing with his patients for tics?

 

Thanks

Faith

 

 

Hi Faith,

You are asking excellent questions - wish you had been with me for this appointment! When Dr. Garcia first began the exam, he asked what type of tics my son experiences. His tics are primarily facial (bunny rabbit nose, eye blink, sniff) sometimes involving the shoulder. At times there is also throat clearing. The tics kind of morph from one thing into another. Dr. Garcia definitely believes the trigeminal nerve is compromised as well as the temporal (upper jaw) and mandible (lower jaw) muscles. One of the electrical tests measured the pressure of his upper and lower jaw muscles when my son clenched his teeth. The graph resulted in uneven pressure and whichever muscle was stronger (I don't remember) it should have been reversed. Meaning, if the mandible graph showed greater strength in the graph, it should have been the temporal. When the nurse place cotton pieces in my sons mouth and asked him to clench again - the ratio of the pressure changed dramatically. This change in pressure is what the splint will accomplish also ( I guess....). Dr. Sims did take a class from Dr. Garcia and I know Dr. Garcia is still actively teaching.

 

There was no simulation as to what the splint will do - I am just trying this out to see if it will help. Because my son had a facial trauma when he was 3 years old, the theory makes sense to me. We just finished braces about 8 months ago, and since the dog just chewed his retainer (seriously), I decided I might as well seize the moment and spend the money on this before replacing the retainer. My son also was scheduled to get his wisdom teeth out in December - Dr. Garcia said absolutely not. He said it was not necessary and we needed to wait until this treatment was complete because he didn't think my son was going to need them removed. Who knows!!! Confusion before enlightenment, right?....lol

 

Here are some links that explain somewhat about the technology he uses...

 

http://www.biojva.net/applications/speaker_garcia.php

http://www.usdinstitute.com/instructors/dr-ralph-garcia.php

 

Take care,

Beth

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I am not sure, but I have a vague memory that Dr. Sims did a little testing of touching here and there and asking if it hurt. Not as extensive as what Dr. Garcia did. Dr. Sims did nothing like the gum chewing and cotton balls and electrical measurements. Actually, Dr. Garcia did not do that yet with me, but I was told that would be part of my next appointment (if I choose to pursue).

 

Faith--FYI, the thing that Dr. Garcia calls a splint for the daytime use is fairly similar to the device that I got from Dr. Sims, who calls it a transcranial vertical distractor. What a yukky name that is! The nighttime one is definitely larger, it may cover top and bottom teeth but I don't remember, and looks like it has a metal bar that I wonder if it is to lock in place while wearing it. Dr. Garcia did have samples you can look at. Dr. Sims did not, and maybe that's the difference with Dr. Garcia, this is all he does, with Dr. Sims it is more of a new thing he is doing here and there as TS patients walk in. For me, the Dr. Sims device repositions the jaw when closed in all 3 dimensions--lower, to the left, and more forward. This is personalized to my situation and the adjustment Dr. Sims thought I needed. Grooves are made on the top of the device (the top of the fake bottom teeth, if you will) so your top teeth fit right in. The grooves are literally made by your top teeth when the plastic is still soft. This part makes the adjustment in the left/right and forward/backward direction work correctly. But, when I sleep, my mouth opens and my jaw falls backward and probably to the right as well. Seeing the device Dr. Garcia has, which is a little narrower and different looking on the top, I'm not sure how his device would accomplish this. The advantage I see with Dr. Garcia's device is that the top of the fake bottom teeth are narrower than real teeth (thinking molars here which are wide), and it is smoother plastic, so trying to eat could be less trouble. When I ate with Dr. Sims device one day, it created lots of sores from that device attacking my inside cheek flesh, and also the tip of my tounge was damaged and in pain from rubbing against the molded plastic on top which was rough, not smooth. You have to rub your tongue on your teeth to move the food around and off your teeth--try eating without doing that!

 

Beth--On the cost of $3200, I am wondering what that covers. I already had the appointment with X-rays, but not the electrical/gum/cotton stuff, and I thought those devices were in the range of $900 for one and $1400 for the other (vague memory from what the assistant said during my appointment, and was not clear if that was device only or what). Just trying to figure out what costs are left for me if I go forward. Curious what you know, but don't work too hard on it, I know I can just call and ask, I will eventually, I am still just compiling my questions for him--and waiting for those sores to heal from eating with Dr. Sims device--the one was very bad!

 

Michael

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Hi Michael,

 

I just spoke with Dr. Garcia. He told me the same things that he told you.

 

Dr. Garcia had a dental assistant with a child with TS. She commented that his symptoms were worse when chewing. An examination revealed that his jaw was not aligned properly. The appliance relieved the TS symptoms. So it was rather by accident that this was discovered.

 

He said a lot of TS patients have a deep bite and/or a deviated mandible. Better position of the mandible (meaning where one is tic free) is held by an appliance. A daytime appliance is worn that one can chew with. The appliance covers the anterior teeth so there is no possibility that anterior teeth will super erupt unlike Dr. Sims' appliance, although Dr. Sims told me that that was never a problem. The nighttime appliance does not allow one to clench at all. By doing this, there is complete rest of the trigeminal system at night. The day time appliance is worn for a limited time (he did not say). The nighttime appliance would be worn for the rest of one's life. (This is not a big deal since I, myself, wear a night splint for nighttime teeth clenching.)

 

He did not say aything about braces except that if my son's jaw is misaligned, then the teeth might have to be moved to support the jaw.

I asked about the possibility of the daytime appliance making one talk funny or drooling since I am dealing with a sometimes difficult teenager. He said it takes a few days to get used to talking with it, but he has made literally thousands of these for regular TMJ patients and no one has problems with them. The salivary glands may overproduce until they get used to the splint being in the mouth but it is only temporary.

 

Do you mind me asking why you initially went to Dr. Sims instead of Dr. Garcia? Who do you recommend now that you've seen both? I am leaning toward Dr. Garcia because he has the two appliances and they won't affect the anterior teeth.

 

I have an appointment on Thursday with a local TMJ dentist to evaluate my son for TMJ problems. Will let everyone know what he says.

 

Thanks,

 

love_nfp

 

I am not sure, but I have a vague memory that Dr. Sims did a little testing of touching here and there and asking if it hurt. Not as extensive as what Dr. Garcia did. Dr. Sims did nothing like the gum chewing and cotton balls and electrical measurements. Actually, Dr. Garcia did not do that yet with me, but I was told that would be part of my next appointment (if I choose to pursue).

 

Faith--FYI, the thing that Dr. Garcia calls a splint for the daytime use is fairly similar to the device that I got from Dr. Sims, who calls it a transcranial vertical distractor. What a yukky name that is! The nighttime one is definitely larger, it may cover top and bottom teeth but I don't remember, and looks like it has a metal bar that I wonder if it is to lock in place while wearing it. Dr. Garcia did have samples you can look at. Dr. Sims did not, and maybe that's the difference with Dr. Garcia, this is all he does, with Dr. Sims it is more of a new thing he is doing here and there as TS patients walk in. For me, the Dr. Sims device repositions the jaw when closed in all 3 dimensions--lower, to the left, and more forward. This is personalized to my situation and the adjustment Dr. Sims thought I needed. Grooves are made on the top of the device (the top of the fake bottom teeth, if you will) so your top teeth fit right in. The grooves are literally made by your top teeth when the plastic is still soft. This part makes the adjustment in the left/right and forward/backward direction work correctly. But, when I sleep, my mouth opens and my jaw falls backward and probably to the right as well. Seeing the device Dr. Garcia has, which is a little narrower and different looking on the top, I'm not sure how his device would accomplish this. The advantage I see with Dr. Garcia's device is that the top of the fake bottom teeth are narrower than real teeth (thinking molars here which are wide), and it is smoother plastic, so trying to eat could be less trouble. When I ate with Dr. Sims device one day, it created lots of sores from that device attacking my inside cheek flesh, and also the tip of my tounge was damaged and in pain from rubbing against the molded plastic on top which was rough, not smooth. You have to rub your tongue on your teeth to move the food around and off your teeth--try eating without doing that!

 

Beth--On the cost of $3200, I am wondering what that covers. I already had the appointment with X-rays, but not the electrical/gum/cotton stuff, and I thought those devices were in the range of $900 for one and $1400 for the other (vague memory from what the assistant said during my appointment, and was not clear if that was device only or what). Just trying to figure out what costs are left for me if I go forward. Curious what you know, but don't work too hard on it, I know I can just call and ask, I will eventually, I am still just compiling my questions for him--and waiting for those sores to heal from eating with Dr. Sims device--the one was very bad!

 

Michael

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love_nfp,

 

I went to Dr. Sims from reading the message board here, and thinking of Dr. Sims as a guy doing a new treatment to treat Tourette's. I live in Tampa (where Dr. Garcia is) and so that was quite a drive up to Maryland, but I really didn't see any option. If I had thought at the time that there was somebody local that could do the same thing, I certainly would have just done that.

 

Now I am looking at things as if Tourette's, at least for me and probably many others, is really just a form of TMJ, where the cause of the problem--misalignment and whatnot in that jaw area--is the same, and some of the symptoms are the same, but some symptoms are different too, possibly because the misalignment is getting different nerves in different ways, or something like that. At first, I wanted to look at TS as a "worse" form of TMJ, where things get pinched so much that you get TS. But then I remembered how terribly painful "regular" TMJ can be (from what I've heard), so I'm not sure "worse" is the right word, and I'm picking "different".

 

I see a few things to consider for anyone about to go this route, and wondering where to go:

 

1. You ARE going to need somebody local or you are going to do a LOT of traveling over time. You might decide to get a device initially from somebody not local, but in the end, you are going to need maintenance of the device, probably adjustments, eventually move to braces or other adjustments of teeth or other bones, and you are going to want that to be handled by the very same person, or someone who is really bought in to the device you get. [You will see the problem I have now, where, sure, Dr. Sims sent me to someone who can deal with jaw adjustments, but he wants to give me his own device, and thinks this is more important and this is less important, and so on. I have not asked him straight-up, can he deal with adjusting and maintaining and handling me if I want the device I already have, but there is a good chance he would say no. He may not even have the equipment to adjust this, as it is made of different material.]

 

2. It really seems like a great thing to be able to see some tangible benefit to the device, and/or that the adjustment is a good one for you before spending all the money. I was just desperate and could manage the money and was willing to just risk it, but I am sure others will not feel that way. I really don't know if Dr. Garcia can give you that, I haven't asked. Dr. Sims can potentially do that, as he puts the sticks in your mouth and you can see what happens. I have minimal visible tics, but he did muscle-test to show vast strengthening, and that gave me some hope. Dr. Stack (in Virginia) has probably less TS experience, but let one patient on his youtube video try out different adjustments with sticks in his hotel room before selecting the next day. That's nice. How important this is kind of depends on if you're happy just adjusting the jaw properly, if that is money well spent anyway, then who cares.

 

3. What about the skill of the person deciding on the adjustments? I was roughly the 25th person Dr. Sims had done for TS, back in July. You have to try to compare that to the world of experience Dr. Garcia has with TMJ, but probably less with TS-style TMJ. Dr. Garcia does not seem to recognize the emotional symptoms--OCD and wild moodswings--that can come with TS, and that concerns me going to him. Maybe he would luck in to fixing that, as Dr. Garcia has fixed that with his adjustment, because in the end, they are just aligning everything perfectly. Maybe Dr. Garcia's electric gadgets allow him to determine the adjustments. In the end, aligning things perfectly and hoping the body works correctly at that point does seem like an excellent place to start, and there is a good argument to be made to finding the most conveniently located person you can find who you have confidence in their skill to do that.

 

Also consider, there are other people besides these people mentioned. You might ask yourself if you really think Dr. Garcia has any special skills or methods that you cannot get from your local TMJ person. I have not heard that Dr. Garcia is a world-renowned TMJ specialist. (Maybe he is, but I have not heard that.)

 

In the end, if I knew what I know now, and was starting fresh, I would probably be going to Dr. Garcia. He is local for me, and he has a device which does have a better chance of being worn during sleep. I am thinking toward the end game, where you adjust your other bones to make the change permanent. I don't want to go through that without knowing I am happy enough with the results, and his sleeping device (which does not permit clenching or whatnot) and daytime device which he claims allows eating (I know mine does not for me) are really a much better option than what I have from Dr. Sims.

 

But, what concerns me about Dr. Garcia, even starting fresh, is you just said the sleeptime device is permanent, and that just raises more questions for me. If we're adjusting the bones, how is the sleeptime device even going to fit? Is its size adjusted as the bones move? And why is it ultimately needed after the bones are realigned? It makes me question if his endgame is really the same as Dr. Sims (and perhaps others).

 

I will just share with you that I still experience drooling. My mouth is just in a different position and I have not adjusted that. It took me 2 months to start talking as I used to--I improved slowly over time. I was much thirstier for over a month, and that finally abated, and I really think it may have been caused by wearing the plastic off and needing water to clean the body out of the plastic, and now, it is worn so much, to the bottom of the one different material, so it may not be wearing nearly as much plastic off, and then I may no longer be needing the extra water because of that.

 

Good luck, and of course am curious to hear what the local TMJ guy says, and any more information you get from Dr. Garcia.

 

Michael

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FYI, I should mention, the drooling, while it continues, at least, has never been very frequent, maybe a couple times a day of wishing that hadn't happened. Of course, it can be at inconvenient times, like, looking down into the pot on the stove, thinking of what to do next for the meal, and then having some drop from my mouth! (Yes, yes, it missed, but it was close...)

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