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starting our candida/leaky gut fight

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Well, we got our OAT test results and just as I suspected, we are dealing with a candida, clostridia overgrowth and leaky gut. I am so upset. I don't know where to begin. Do I use Nystatin or ThreeLac? Do we do a strict diet? What can I expect to happen? Please help. Any advice would be appreciated. I am so scared.

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personally I dont like Nystatin simply because it is another chemical drug and I prefer the more natural ways


we had best results ever with Candida Clear by NOW and using the recipes/diet in The Yeast Syndrome book by Walker and Trowbridge


for probiotic we like kefir

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Well, we got our OAT test results and just as I suspected, we are dealing with a candida, clostridia overgrowth and leaky gut. I am so upset. I don't know where to begin. Do I use Nystatin or ThreeLac? Do we do a strict diet? What can I expect to happen? Please help. Any advice would be appreciated. I am so scared.

S-Boulardii is good for fighting clostridia. My daughter is on Nystatin for yeast and so far it has not been a problem for her.

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Do you have a doctor to advise you? My son also had candida, clostridia overgrowth and leaky gut back when he was younger. It took years of work for him to get better, but we did finally remove the overgrowth of candida and clostridia and heal his gut with the help of a good doctor (and then both his vocal and his motor tics also went away). The good thing is that we were able to check the progress of his treatment by repeating the OAT panels, and as his tics diminished, the results on the OAT panels kept improving too. We tried to use Nystatin, and went through several rounds of it, but it was completely ineffective for him. The doctor prescribed S-Boulardii as well, but I had to discontinue that as it really exacerbated his tics. Our doctor did not prescribe any special diet, though I did keep him dairy free for a while because we found that dairy made his tics more severe. (Now he is fine with dairy). Also both artificial food coloring and msg really made him react strongly with heavy tics and adhd symptoms. The things that I recall helped him most were some homeopathic drops (by Pleo/Sanum) which are intended to counter candida, probiotics, and oil of oregano (which is so strong I had to put in empty capsules for him). He also took Bonnie's supplements (mentioned a lot in this forum), but he no longer does that either. I was extremely surprised that the homeopathy worked so well, but it did.


We discovered the candida, clostridia and leaky gut when my son was finishing 3rd grade, and it wasn't until he was in the middle of 6th grade that his health improved, so you can see that we had a long time of searching and trying and retesting. Since then, he has not had this problem reoccur, nor has he had tics.


Good luck to you.

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I do have a doctor - a naturopath that we are seeing. I am not convinced that he entirely knows what he is doing. We got the OAT test results and we were supposed to start treatment but i have not heard back from our ND. I am going to try starting on my own tomorrow.


Phyl - You say you didn't have to go on any special diet while treating candida. My ND mentioned that we would have to eliminate certain foods as well as the many foods that my son tested positive for on his IGg test. He is only 5 and I am dreading the next many months. I am concerned that he is going to lose weight (he is already on the small side - 36 lbs.) and I am not sure what kinds of foods to feed him. I have heard that it takes one month for every year that you have had candida which would mean that for my son it will be at least 5 months. How often were you retesting him? Were his tics still waxing and waning while you were treating him with the pleo remedies? Did he have any really bad times? Die-off?


I just want to help my little boy. He is the sweetest, cutest, most loveable little guy on the planet and I hate to see him like this. I know that it all stems from the candida, clostridia, leaky gut. I just want to heal him soon so I can start enjoying him and his brother again.

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It seems that most people do use a special diet to get rid of candida, but my son's doctor did not suggest that. I believe that Chemar's son and several others here did use a no-yeast diet. My son's allergy test did not show him to be very allergic or sensitive to any particular foods, so that was not an issue for him. I know that there are now some good cookbooks available for children who are on special diets. Maybe you can find one that will be helpful so you'll be able to find foods that your son will enjoy while you are working on his health.


I don't know anything about a correlation between how long one has had candida and how long it takes to get rid of it. We retested my son's OAT panel many times over the course of months it took and I recall that we did it after he'd gone through as much of the whatever treatment it was that the doctor had prescribed for him, to see his status. Then, depending on results she would continue with the same thing or try something different. Yes, his ticcing did wax and wane while he was being treated. However, gradually, as the candida and clostridia diminished, I could really tell that his tics were reducing in frequency too. One thing that I think was unusual about his tics was that almost all of his motor tics were bilateral or symmetrical, that is that whatever he did on one side of his body was repeated on the other (maybe not all of them, but the majority). He did have some very difficult times, and this forum was, back then, a place that helped me a lot. (That's why I come back here, though not as frequently, these days). Since your son has similar issues, are his tics also symmetrical?


Your son sounds wonderful. I hope that you can enjoy him no matter what.



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Thanks Phyl.


His tics are not symetrical. What concerns me is the number of different tics that he has had. He never just has one. Right now he is grunting, smelling his fingers, shrugging his shoulders, pulling at his shirt, scrunching his nose, opening his mouth, wiping across his face with his arm. It's difficult to watch. How long did it take your son from beginning of treatment to having little or no tics? Does he now eat anything or does he still have to have a restricitve diet?

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His tics are not symetrical. What concerns me is the number of different tics that he has had. He never just has one. Right now he is grunting, smelling his fingers, shrugging his shoulders, pulling at his shirt, scrunching his nose, opening his mouth, wiping across his face with his arm. It's difficult to watch. How long did it take your son from beginning of treatment to having little or no tics? Does he now eat anything or does he still have to have a restricitve diet?


In our case the bad multifocal tics lasted daily for seven months. They waned when we added all the supps and started a candida cleanse regime. They stopped completely when we did an IgG test and adhered to that diet as well (17 intolerances) along with Feingold (no artificial anything). We did that for six months and then started rotating in some of the 17 intolerances. After 9 months he was great and has remained stable since. Wheat, gluten, corn all still make him tic if he gets them. We now eat a pretty varied diet that includes sweets but we only use natural sweeteners (evaporated cane juice, honey, maple syrup).


If he gets a tic now it is one tic and it is not constant. I can almost always pinpoint corn when it happens. He has a very severe corn allergy. The wrong kind of jam on his bread will make him grind his teeth, for example, for hours afterwards. Benadryl helps us when this type of thing happens. It is rare now, as we have come to learn our brands and have a pretty good routine going.


For us the diet is key to success. I know if we went off of the plantation he would go right back to chronic multifocal ticcing. Everyone at school knows about it and folks are great when he goes to parties, etc.... It is totally not an issue for him now. It just is what it is and he is just fine with that. he doesn't miss 'normal' food. Of course, he started at age 4 and is only 6. Time will tell.....

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I was wondering what the best way is to start to figure out if my children have yeast overgrowth and/or leaky gut. My daughter has been on and off antibiotics for the 12 years of her life, as well as my 3 younger children. I research like crazy about strep, PANDAS, etc.. BUT I have completely fallen short of the yeast issue and it must be there based on the years of antibiotics. Is there any test I can do at home? I just don't know where to start in figuring this out. Any help would be so appreciated!

Thanks! Colleen

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The Microbial Organic Acid Test by Great Plains Laboratory is the one that we used also. It is a urine test and so is pretty easy to do. Some insurance companies accept billing for this test (at least Blue Cross Blue Shield used to do so) from this lab which is a big help. As far as I know, though, this test needs to be done through a doctor - you cannot simply ask for it yourself. Colleen, I believe that my son picked up the parasites also through years of antibiotic use for ear infections before he had tubes put in. I wish I had known then...


mylittleangel, my son also used to go through a wide number of different tics, often one right after another, though some stayed for a long time. He grunted, went t-t-t-t, blinked, looked over each shoulder, opened his mouth wide, touched his thumbs with the other fingers, lifted his hands in the air, and had a painful stomach tic among other things. One thing that I did that was very helpful was to keep a diary of what we did each day (which supplements he took, what he ate, any treatments or anything unusual that we did and how he reacted, what his tics were and their severity). This was helpful to try to track down what was beneficial, because after a while, everything was a blur as I was also very emotional about it all. After a while, when I looked back at the diary, I could see definite changes that I might not have observed had I not been writing things down. After a while, it was clear that the tics were fewer and fewer. You asked how long it took from the beginning of treatment to having no tics, and I think the answer was about 3 years. I switched his doctor after we started, because I found one whose outlook I preferred, but it was very slow going. My son is now 16 years old and he does not restrict his diet at all, though at home I don't buy any thing with artificial or processed ingredients. However, I know that he sometimes gets junk with artificial coloring and flavoring, and eats foods with nitrates, but he claims that it doesn't bother him at all now.

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3 years sounds like a long time. Did the tics wax and wane during that time or were they slowly getting less frequent? I feel like I want to hide him from the world until his tics are less noticeable. I know I can't do that. My son's issues are also a result of chronic ear infections resulting in a ridiculous amount of antibiotic use. I wish I knew then what I know now. I guess that is where all the guilt comes in.


Anyway, I think I am going to start from scratch and take your suggestion and keep a diary. We started on culturelle for the clostridia yesterday and today we will start on Kyolic Garlic alternating with Grapefruit Seed Extract for the yeast (along with a very restrictive diet). I am not going to give him all his supps as I don't even think they are doing anything anymore.

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Just got sent a great link about leaky gut from another list I belong to.

I thought I would pass it on:


I will paste part of the article below, there is much more at the site.




What can be done to heal the body and strengthen the immune system? Here is what I have learned so far:


1) To restore normal intestinal bacteria:


a) Take a good probiotic (usually the best are in powder form and refrigerated). A good probiotic contains resident strains of intestinal bacteria such as Lactobacillus acidophilus, Bifidobacerium bifidum, and Bifidobacterium longum (infants need Bifodobacterium infantis). Probiotics should be taken for 4 months after any antibiotic use. In my practice, I recommend PB 8 for older children and adults. Children take 1 capsule at bedtime while adults take 2 capsules at bedtime for four months. The capsules can be placed in applesauce so they are easier to swallow. For infants, I recommend Life Start by Natrens.


:blink: Consume fermented foods and drinks containing good intestinal bacteria (e.g. fermented cabbage and lactic acid-fermented beverages). Look in the book Nourishing Traditions written by Sally Fallon, for recipes. When looking for fermented vegetables at health food stores, check to see that vinegar is not listed among the ingredients.


c) Make your own yogurt. I make yogurt by adding 1/2 cup of yogurt starter or 1/2 cup of Strauss organic whole milk yogurt to 16 oz raw organic whole milk from a certified dairy. Place the milk and yogurt mixture in a stainless steel pan and heat to room temperature. Now pour the mixture into a pint-sized jar and cover with a paper towel or cheese cloth. Place jar(s) of yogurt mixture into a cooler that contains another jar full of boiling hot water, which serves as the heat source. Close the cooler and recheck after 6 to 8 hours. You now have yogurt.


d) Eat plenty of organic raw nuts, seeds, fruits, and vegetables. They serve as a source of fiber for the good intestinal bacteria which can't survive without them. Fiber also bulks up the stool and stimulates the bowel to contract which ensures regularity. Flax seeds are a great source of fiber, both soluble and insoluble. It is recommended that 14 grams of fiber (an apple contains about 4 grams of fiber) be consumed for every 1000 calories of food eaten each day.


e) Drastically reduce sugar in your diet and avoid fruit juices, white bread, candy, and sodas. Sodas, besides containing lots of sugar, contain phosphoric acid which leaches calcium from the bones and contributes to the development of osteoporosis and loss of cartilage.


f) Increase alkaline-forming foods such as organic fruits, vegetables, herbs, and almonds. Make these foods 80% of your daily diet.


g) Drink an herbal tea which is highly alkaline or tea made from fresh lemon juice. These teas help to discourage yeast growth . In my practice I also recommend drinking Liver Tea from Uriel Pharmacy and/or taking Amara Drops from Weleda Pharmacy which both contain bitter herbs like dandelion and yarrow. Both support digestion and liver function. Chinese medicine also recommends teas made from bitter tasting herbs. Bitter herbs, in general, also stimulate bile secretion which helps with fat absorption in the small intestine and serves as a way for the liver to excrete toxins from the body.


h) Consume plenty of fresh garlic (see my detox mineral soup recipe) since garlic discourages growth of yeast. There also are anti-yeast formulations of herbs that come in capsules. These capsules often contain grapefruit seed extract, garlic, uva ursi, neem leaf, olive leaf, oregano leaf, berberine, and calcium undecylenate from the castor bean. These capsules are often taken orally before breakfast and before bedtime for a period of 15 to 30 days. Another approach is to take natural plant enzymes for three weeks at bedtime, on an empty stomach. These enzymes will help the body break down the cell wall of yeast and destroy parasites in the intestine.


2) To reduce casein and gluten protein sensitivies:


a) First, stop all milk products for two weeks then add back milk products on day 15 and see if congestion increases, eczema worsens, or snoring increases. Naturopathic physicians have taught me that it takes at least two months to clear the casein protein from the bloodstream and the lymphatics, but symptoms will worsen when milk products are re-introduced on day 15. Repeat this same process with all products that contain gluten (e.g., wheat, oats, barley, and rye). Children and adults may need to stay off casein and gluten products for the next four to six months while the intestinal wall heals and the beneficial intestinal bacteria are restored. A great website to help with the casein/gluten-free diet is www.Tacanow.org. When reintroducing milk products, homemade yogurt made from raw organic milk is the easiest to digest.


B) Take supplemental plant enzymes, preferably from organically grown plants, at the beginning of each meal to help with digestion (especially when not eating any raw vegetables during the meal). In my practice, I recommend Metazyme by Nutranomics. Adults take 2 capsules with each meal while children 3 to 10 years of age take 1 capsule with meals.


c) Make homemade almond milk by soaking almonds overnight in water containing unrefined Celtic sea salt (I use 1 tsp of salt per cup of almonds). The next morning briefly blanch the almonds in hot water so the skins can be more easily removed. Using a blender, mix the peeled almonds with water or organic rice milk. Crispy nuts can be made by slowly roasting the almonds in an oven on the lowest setting (Temp < 110 F) for 24 to 36 hours after soaking them overnight in salty water. Almonds are a great source of protein and fat as well as calcium, magnesium, and other trace minerals. Good fats like almonds, avocados, and eggs slow the emptying time of the stomach and thereby lower the concentration of sugar that triggers insulin release. Proteins and fats, by themselves, do not stimulate insulin release, and eating complex carbohydrates which are high in fiber also reduces the amount of insulin that the pancreas needs to secrete.


d) Avoid soy milk or any other unfermented soy product. Miso soup is okay because it is fermented. Unfermented soy products block thyroid hormone function, protein and calcium absorption, and have strong estrogen effects. Organic rice milk is okay but it mostly consists of carbohydrates. Homemade almond milk is healthier. With regard to cow's milk, I learned during my training at the Lukas Clinic in Arlesheim, Switzerland that the healthiest milk to drink is raw organic whole milk. Ultra-pasteurized, homogenized non-organic milk is seen as the least healthy milk to drink because all the natural enzymes and vitamins are destroyed by processing, and the fat is disrupted by homogenization. The book Nourishing Traditions also discusses the advantages of raw milk as does the journal Wise Traditions published by the Weston A. Price Foundation.



3) To strengthen immune system so it is not so reactive:


a) Keep hands, feet, and kidneys as warm as the skin over the heart.


B) Consume omega 3-fatty acids from a molecularly-distilled, pharmaceutical-grade cod liver oil. If the oil has been carefully processed, it will not smell fishy. In my practice, I use Nordic Natural Artic Cod Liver Oil, but there also are other goods brands. I recommend taking 1 tsp/day for children 6 years and older and 1/2 tsp/day for children 3 to 5 years of age. For toddlers, I recommend Barleans flax seed oil mixed with butter and used as a spread on toast. Look at the skin and hair for signs of omega 3 fatty acid deficiency. Hair will be coarse and dull while skin may develop sandpaper-like bumps all over the upper arms, back, and abdomen. Sometimes the child needs to be taking a plant-based enzyme with lipase to improve fat absorption.


c) AVOID partially hydrogenated oils and trans-fats. Do not cook in corn oil or canola oil since these oils are heat sensitive and quickly convert to trans-fatty acids. Cook only in coconut oil (high temp), olive oil, or butter (low-med temp). Use ghee if one is sensitive to milk products. Ghee does not contain casein.


d) Eat at least a handful of soaked and slow-roasted almonds every day. Almonds are a great source of calcium and magnesium. Hemp organic protein powder by Nutiva is reportedly a good source of magnesium, protein, and fiber and is recommended in Ayurvedic medicine.


e) Prepare "Detox soup" for vitamins and minerals (see my recipe on website, www.youandyourchildshealth.org).


f) Consider taking a liquid mineral supplement for a few months since an over-growth of yeast in the small intestine may have blocked the absorption of many minerals and vitamins. The supplement should be derived from organic plants and should not contain preservatives, sweeteners, or flavorings. In my practice, I recommend 1 capful per day of Fulvic Mineral Complex by Vital-Earth that is added to a glass of water.


g) Do a cycle (14 sessions) of Therapeutic Eurythmy movement therapy with a trained Therapeutic Eurythmist. Trained Eurythmy Therapists are affiliated with Waldorf Schools, and a physician's evaluation is needed. Any harmonious, non-competitive, rhythmic movements, like walking and hiking, stimulate lymphatic flow and are very beneficial.


h) See an Osteopathic physician for Biodynamic Cranial Osteopathy or a very experienced practitioner in Upledger Cranial-Sacral Therapy.


i) Consider visiting a N.A.E.T practitioner. N.A.E.T. is an energetic technique that reportedly decreases the immune system's reactivity to specific proteins like dairy, wheat, and soy. In my experience, a child's allergy symptoms to a particular protein can be immediately reduced, but the child still needs to follow the guidelines for healing the leaky gut. Otherwise children will just develop sensitivities to other proteins they eat or breathe in from their environment.


j) Be aware of the immune-suppressive effects of electromagnetic fields (EMF). Avoid using electric blankets and be aware of other EMF sources from household appliances, computers, and cell phones. Make sure your home and office are up to code with respect to electrical wiring. Electric companies will screen your home and office with an EMF meter at no charge. Microwave radiation from cell phone towers may also affect the immune system and overall health.


4) Symptomatic relief for allergies, sinusitis, and congestion:


a) Try Homeopathic/Anthroposophic remedies such as Myristica Sebiferra, Berberis Quartz, and Lemon Quince pillules, all from Uriel Pharmacy in Wisconsin. Additional remedies include Sinus Comp and Boswellia capsules from True Botanica. Standard Process also has good herbal supplements.


B) Take a good sublingual (under the tongue) supplement containing B12, B6, and Folate, as well as a whole food complex type of vitamin C (antioxidant). A pharmaceutical-grade, molecularly- distilled cod liver oil such as Nordic Natural also has anti-inflammatory effects.


c) Keep well hydrated by drinking plenty of good quality, non-chlorinated water and decaffeinated herbal teas. As a guideline, it is recommended to drink half of one's weight in ounces of water that is sipped throughout the day. Do not drink too much water during meals, since water dilutes the acid concentration in the stomach and makes it harder for the stomach to break down proteins.


5) May need a dental consult:


a) When children develop chronic allergies as a result of the leaky gut syndrome, the adenoids and tonsils enlarge, obstructing the nasal passages. This causes children to breathe more through their mouths than their noses. Mouth breathing causes the upper palatal arch to increase (high arch) which causes crowding of the upper teeth. Dentists are now trained to use small wire retainers which gently re-expand the upper jaw, reducing over-crowding, tooth extraction, and the need to remove the tonsils and adenoids.

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mylittleangel, I think that you will have success more quickly than we did, because you are starting with the right things more quickly. I said 3 years, because that's from the start of when we learned the results of the first microbial OAT panel to when he no longer had those issues. Our first doctor wasn't really trying to rid of him of the yeast and clostridia, but rather wanted him on omega 3's, lots of magnesium, zinc and other supplements. We were trying to figure out where the issues were and what was important to work on. My son used culturelle for a long time too(about 2 years), but it didn't seem to make his clostridia overgrowth go down. I also recall that the doctor who helped us most (the 2nd one) wanted to get rid of the clostridia first, before working on the yeast - something about it would not be possible to do them at the same time, but I don't remember why. (My son also had another parasite, Dientamoeba Fragilis, which the doctor eradicated before anything else). To answer your question about the reduction in his tics, I would definitely say that when we finally were on the right track, reducing the overgrowth of clostridia and yeast, his tics dwindled with a very apparent correlation. I was very skeptical that anything could be working, after such a long time, but it gradually became more and more obvious. This probably took about a year.


One thing that may be helpful to you was a "conversation" I had way back on March 10 - 13, 2003 with Dr. McCandless on this forum, entry "Stubborn Clostridia". I hope this link works: http://www.latitudes.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=187 In this Dr. McCandless recommended Flagyl to get rid of the clostridia. In truth, I can't remember whether we used that, but think that we must have, though I can't find a notation in my diary that says we did. I did find a letter that I'd written to our doctor where I noted what Dr. McCandless had recommended and it was after that when we finally started to see results.

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  • 2 months later...



I hate that feeling too - the feeling of not knowing where to begin. The good thing is Latitudes does show us the way and the posts are always encouraging :wacko:


I'm afraid that I have no answers for you because I'm just like you, mylittleangel. I am searching too and I just want to do everything I can to help my little one.


In my case, my kid eats quite a bit but she just doesn't seem to be putting on any weight. In fact, she is losing weight. We have limited her food - she does not do gluten, dairy, soy, eggs, chicken, citrus ... The IgG Allergy Test shows that she is allergic to these. Just a question - if we don't do the OAT test, is there any way to tell if our kids have a leaky gut or yeast overgrowth? Are there any obvious signs?




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