So I just took a multivitamin and my tic went NUTS

[guy123]

So far the only thing I've really identified that seems to aggrivate my tic is fish.

 

Anyway, I haven't been feeling too good for the last month, and my diet has been quite lacking, so I decided to go get a multivitamin today since I was feeling rather malnourished. I got the multivitamin that I always used to take, GNC's Mega Men vitamin (basically large doses of all the B vitamins, normal doses of the fat soluble vitamins, and a bunch of other stuff). It could have been coincidence, but about an hour after I took it my blinking tic went BONKERS.

 

Here's an ingredient list. Anyone know which ones of these could have been reponsible?

 

Ingredient - Dosage - % RDA

 

(the listed dosages are per 2 pills, so divide these all in half because I only took one pill)

 

Vitamins

Vitamin A (50% as beta-Carotene 50% as Acetate) 5000.00 IU 100%

Vitamin C (as Ascorbic Acid & Calcium Ascorbate) 300.00 mg 500%

Vitamin D (as Cholecalciferol) 200.00 IU 50%

Vitamin E (as Natural d-alpha Tocopheryl Acetate) 100.00 IU 333%

Vitamin K (Phytonadione) 80.00 mcg 100%

Thiamin (Vitamin B-1)(as Thiamin Mononitrate) 50.00 mg 3333%

Riboflavin (Vitamin B-2) 50.00 mg 2941%

Niacin (as Niacin and Niacinamide) 50.00 mg 250%

Vitamin B-6 (as Pyridoxine Hydrochloride) 50.00 mg 2500%

Folic Acid 400.00 mcg 100%

Vitamin B12 (as Cyanocobalamin) 50.00 mcg 833%

Biotin 300.00 mcg 100%

Pantothenic Acid (as Calcium d-Pantothenate) 50.00 mg 500%

Calcium (as Calcium Carbonate and Calcium Citrate Malate) 200.00 mg 20%

Iodine (as Potassium Iodide) 150.00 mcg 100%

Magnesium (as Magnesium Oxide) 100.00 mg 25%

Zinc (as Zinc Oxide) 25.00 mg 167%

Selenium (as Hydrolyzed Protein Chelate) 200.00 mcg 286%

Copper (as Copper Gluconate) 2.00 mg 100%

Manganese (as Manganese Sulfate) 2.00 mg 100%

Chromium (as Hydrolyzed Protein Chelate) 120.00 mcg 100%

Molybdenum (as Sodium Molybdate) 75.00 mcg 100%

 

Proprietary Sports Blend 215.00 mg **

Ginkgo Biloba Leaf Extract **

Green Tea Leaves Extract (Camellia sinensis) **

L-Arginine **

L-Carnitine **

L-Glutamine **

L-Taurine Ethyl Ester HCL **

Branched Chain Amino Acid Blend 150.00 mg **

L-Isoleucine **

L-Leucine **

L-Valine **

alpha-Lipoic Acid 25.00 mg **

Choline (as Choline Bitartrate) 10.00 mg **

Inositol 10.00 mg **

Silica (as Silicon Dioxide) 4.00 mg **

Boron (as Hydrolyzed Protein Chelate) 2.00 mg **

Lutein (as lutein esters) 950.00 mcg **

Lycopene 950.00 mcg **

Astaxanthin 50.00 mcg **

Zeaxanthin 50.00 mcg **

Vanadium (as Sodium Metavanadate) 10.00 mcg **

 

Other Ingredients: Cellulose, Titanium Dioxide (Natural Mineral Whitener), Vegetable Acetoglycerides, Caramel Color, Ethyl Vanillin

 

No Artificial Color, No Artificial Flavors, No Wheat, No Gluten, No Dairy, Yeast Free

 

Contains: Fish and Soybeans

 

 

 

 

I see at the end it says "contains fish." Which one of those ingredients is fish? That could be what set off my tic, since I know fish is a known trigger for me. I thought it was interesting to see that this vitamin is completely free of artificial colors and flavors, wheat, gluten, dairy, and yeast.

 

 

Thanks.

[lynnie1264]

Hi Guy,

 

I don't know alot about this but I've heard Vanillin is something to stay away from, also in alot of my early research I found that caramel colouring and flavour was bad for TS.

 

But then I guess you've probably had that in other stuff, but I thought it was worth mentioning.

 

Also if you google up "maganese" there's quite a bit there that says it aggravates TS.

 

Hope this helps,

Lyn.

[Chemar]

my son cannot go near vanillin (artificial vanilla flavor) nor titanium dioxide(whitener).

 

it is also possible that the high amino acid mixture could have been a trigger. some amino acids stimulate dopamine which can lead to more tics in susceptible individuals (eg those with TS) I dont see tyrosine listed but it is likely in the "Branched Chain Amino Acid Blend"

 

the vitamin D may have come from fish??? many D's are derived from seafood

 

as it is a "mega men's" vitamin there may also be androgen boosters in there?? (I confess some of those ingredients are unknown to me) and again for those with TS, increased steroids=increased tics

 

also, some people have found soy allergy sets tics off

[faith]

I probably would vote for the soy if you are sensitive to it, you may not even be aware of it. But that would be something for my guy. Really, I wouldn't go for a multi with that much stuff in it, too much guessing with our type issues. I really don't think you need all those aminos, just stick to basic nutrition.

 

Also, and I could be reaching here, but the vitamin K and the "phytonadione" that it is derived from looks suspicious to me in that there may be interactions with the medication you are taking (is it the clonodine?). Do some searching there, but if you recall there was a post from "myrose" whose child starting taking some vitamin regimen while on the topomax and I believe it may have been determined that something in those vits were causing the topomax to not work as well, and her child resulted in more tics, while before she had none. maybe go back over that thread. I'll link one that I found, but again, don't know if your particular drug is affected, but its worth looking into.

 

http://www.aolhealth.com/drugs/phytonadion...ct-phytonadione

 

The Vitamin A could be derived from fish liver oil.

 

Could I ask tho, when you say your tic went nuts--are you saying the "urge" to tic was much more prominent and you could feel the difference? how long later?

 

 

Faith

[guy123]

Could I ask tho, when you say your tic went nuts--are you saying the "urge" to tic was much more prominent and you could feel the difference? how long later?

 

Yes, the sensation in my eyes was unbearable.

 

Ok let me try to describe my tic for you:

 

I get a sensation in my eyes that is only relieved by a hard blink. I would say the sensation in 70% physical (an actual feeling in my eyes) and 30% mental (cognitive). The sensation is usually present for 80-90% of the day, every day, only going away for a few minutes at a time throughout the day (oddly enough, it goes away almost completely when I am going to the bathroom or taking a shower). When I do a hard blink, the sensation goes away, but usually comes back a few seconds later.

 

After starting Clonidine, when I'm having a "good day," the intensity of the sensation is reduced. I can still feel it usually, but it's not so annoying that I have to be constantly blinking, and it is tolerable.

 

Last night, an hour or two after I took the multivitamin, the sensation to blink was greatly increased in intensity, and I was blinking every few seconds for 5-6 hours until it started to wear off a little bit.

 

Hope that helps.

[guy123]

my son cannot go near vanillin (artificial vanilla flavor) nor titanium dioxide(whitener).

 

Interesting. I didn't see vanillin listed the first time I went through the list.

 

it is also possible that the high amino acid mixture could have been a trigger. some amino acids stimulate dopamine which can lead to more tics in susceptible individuals (eg those with TS) I dont see tyrosine listed but it is likely in the "Branched Chain Amino Acid Blend"

I believe the amino acid profile in this vitamin is ridiculously low (not saying that that wouldn't still trigger tics, however).

 

the vitamin D may have come from fish??? many D's are derived from seafood

 

I did not know that!

 

as it is a "mega men's" vitamin there may also be androgen boosters in there?? (I confess some of those ingredients are unknown to me) and again for those with TS, increased steroids=increased tics

 

What if someone had TS and Crohn's. Would treating a Crohn's flareup with prednisone (a steroid) cause an increase in tics, or is it only anabolic/androgenic steroids that cause increases in tics?

 

Oh, I believe the "men's" part in the name comes from the fact that there is no iron in this vitamin. They sell a similar women's formula that does include iron. I'm not sure how the rest of the ingredients differ.

[guy123]

I probably would vote for the soy if you are sensitive to it, you may not even be aware of it. But that would be something for my guy. Really, I wouldn't go for a multi with that much stuff in it, too much guessing with our type issues. I really don't think you need all those aminos, just stick to basic nutrition.

 

Also, and I could be reaching here, but the vitamin K and the "phytonadione" that it is derived from looks suspicious to me in that there may be interactions with the medication you are taking (is it the clonodine?). Do some searching there, but if you recall there was a post from "myrose" whose child starting taking some vitamin regimen while on the topomax and I believe it may have been determined that something in those vits were causing the topomax to not work as well, and her child resulted in more tics, while before she had none. maybe go back over that thread. I'll link one that I found, but again, don't know if your particular drug is affected, but its worth looking into.

 

I have heard that you shouldn't take large doses of vitamin K if you're on blood thinners. I will research it with clonidine.

[Chemar]

What if someone had TS and Crohn's. Would treating a Crohn's flareup with prednisone (a steroid) cause an increase in tics, or is it only anabolic/androgenic steroids that cause increases in tics?

 

my son has both TS and Crohn's and could not have any steroid treatment for the Crohn's for that reason

Thankfully he developed a natural diet/supp plan that has helped it go into remission without drugs

 

my husband has TS and did have a prednisone burst for pain after a back injury and it had horrible effects on his tics triggering levels he has not seen since early childhood (he is in his 60s now)

the tics are still elevated even tho the steroid burst was many months ago

[guy123]

What if someone had TS and Crohn's. Would treating a Crohn's flareup with prednisone (a steroid) cause an increase in tics, or is it only anabolic/androgenic steroids that cause increases in tics?

 

my son has both TS and Crohn's and could not have any steroid treatment for the Crohn's for that reason

Thankfully he developed a natural diet/supp plan that has helped it go into remission without drugs

 

my husband has TS and did have a prednisone burst for pain after a back injury and it had horrible effects on his tics triggering levels he has not seen since early childhood (he is in his 60s now)

the tics are still elevated even tho the steroid burst was many months ago

 

 

Wow. I thought it was just AAS (anabolic androgenic steroids) that increased tics, but apparently it's corticosteroids, too

 

Isn't a "steroid burst" one of the ways they test for PANDAS? Like if that improves symptoms, then IVIG treatment is likely to work?

 

Do you think there is a link between TS and Crohn's? I've heard it's generally believed that Crohn's is autoimmune, and I've heard theories suggesting that TS is autoimmune (specifically anti-basal ganglia), too.