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Nicholas' tests results in


abbe
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abe

I have fixed your post again to remove the wrong quotes as it is impossible to see what you have written and what you are quoting from others the way you are posting it.

 

maybe just use the "reply" instead of the "quote" button....reply will still give you the qyotes of the other party then just reply above or below (not insude the quote tag)

 

or if you dont want any quote, just hit the "add reply" botton at the very bottom of the thread

 

hope that helps :)

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Carolyn,

 

 

 

Just for curiosity I googled what increases Dopamine in the brain and it said lack of sleep in the night or poor sleep increases dopamine. so here we go around and around with me saying Nicholas' being a restless sleeper is the root of his problem?????

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

abbe

 

 

 

 

Hello,

 

I just wanted to let you know I looked up Daniel's Neuroscience results to give you an idea. His Dopamine was at 266. The optimal is between 110-175 for the day. The therapeutic range, from what I understand, is for when the doctor gives you a supplement to increase that particular neurotransmitter and you would want the neurotransmitter to be up that high while on the supplement for it. The therapeutic range was between 200 to 350. But in Daniel's case since he is not on a supplement to increase dopamine, his is naturally way too high.

 

Unless your son is on something to increase his dopamine, which I would doubt, his dopamine is running naturally high. From the very minimal knowledge that I have I think they add in supplements to increase dopamine I believe for Autistic children. So that would be one example of a child which you would then look at the therapeutic range since that is a supplement being added into the child's diet.

 

I believe on Neuroscience, after being on their program for 6 months or so, they ask you to take the test again. This way they can look at the therapeutic range and see how the supplements are working for the patient.

 

I also wanted to mention you may want to talk to your doctor about using N-Acetylcysteine (NAC) instead of the glutathine. They both have the same effect in helping the liver process through toxins and neurotransmitters but my doctor told me the NAC in the long run is more effective. From what I understand your body will take the NAC and turn into glutathione. I just seem to remember him telling me, and I may be wrong, that people's bodies just don't respond as well in just directly putting the glutathione in. I will tell you the NAC has been very effective for my son and several others on this forum. I am giving Daniel a fairly high amount. He is 8 years old and he is getting on average 600 mg's in the morning and 600 mg's at night. Run it by your doctor and see what he or she thinks.

 

I know it is so overwhelming but just know you are doing all the right things for your son. Don't get discouraged. I can tell you it took me about 1 1/2 years of reading (especially on this forum), doctors visits, journaling foods, buying and trying various supplements to come up with a plan that works for Daniel. If I stick to it, which is the hardest part (meaning avoiding all the foods he is sensitive too), he is tic free. I do not regret a second of all the time I put into it because I have seen great results. If you are interested here is a link to all the supplements I am currently giving him you can check it out here. The supplement information is a bit down in the first posting http://www.latitudes.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=4194 .

 

I read something a while back on tics that really helped put a lot in perspective for me. It may have even been in Shelia Rogers book "Tics and Tourettes". But the basic premise what to think of tics similar to migraines. People get migraines for many different reasons. It is not just one set reason that sets off migraines in people. So you have to find the root of it for that particular person. It is the same thing with tics. There are many different variables that can ultimately case tics and it is discovering for that particular person which one or more of the variables needs to be addressed to help alleviate what is going on. But ultimately the tics are a response to something not being right within the system of the body. They are not happening just because like some doctors would like to say.

 

God Bless and hang in there. Remember what an awesome mom you are for doing what you are doing for him. It is so easy to get down on ourselves when we don't have the complete picture yet.

 

I have been praying for you and I will continue to pray for answers for you and your son.

 

Carolyn

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Carolyn,

 

 

 

Just for curiosity I googled what increases Dopamine in the brain and it said lack of sleep in the night or poor sleep increases dopamine.

 

 

Is that why I feel good when I stay up late sometimes? No sleep = increased dopamine (reward)?

 

I've always been a night owl ever since I was a kid.

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Abbe,

 

I have to tell you the Benadryl reduction in tics is a HUGE clue for you. I and others on this forum have noticed reduction in tics in using Benadryl. I will try to explain to you what I understand as to why the reduction. The Benadryl is lowering histamine as your probably already know. But histamine is a neurotransmitter in and of itself. So when the body is overwhelmed with histamine, because of an allergic response to something, then the other neurotransmitters are ultimately elevated in ways you do not want (including dopamine)! So what you need to do is get to the source of the allergy or allergies. You may have already posted that you know he has certain allergies and I have just forgotten. But I am telling you that is good news for you.

 

Some people get the opposite reaction from Benadryl and get an increase in tics. My naturopathic doctor told me this is called, if I remember correctly, a Paradoxl reaction. Meaning when you try to lower the histamine using anti-histamine drugs some people bodies will respond by sending a massive amount of histamine forward to counteract the drug. Fortunately your son is not doing this and the bendadryl is helping.

 

One thing you can do to help lower histamine naturally is high levels of vitamin C. I have Daniel on 1000 mg's a day. Using the NAC you want him on a high level of vitamin C anyhow. Also Apple Cider Vinegar helps lower histamine levels and so does the Postassium Bicarbonate. Your Naturopathic Doctor can get potassium bicarbonate for you. The postassium bicarbonate lowers the PH level of the body which ultimatley lowers histamine.

 

I have to leave now to go get my children from school. But if I think of some other things I will post.

 

Carolyn

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Carolyn,

 

I really appreciate your help as always. I actually made another apt. with Nicks natural doctor for tommorow morning at 9am,. I have so many different questions and I think I may benefit by questioning him to death. I had already considered your theiry regarding benedryl and histamine levels but I am not sure if it is that or that the benedryl "knocks" him out at night he sleeps better, his nervous system replenishes he gets tick free. Because Nick does not seem like a very allergic child I feel it is the later. I will try and write back to you again tonight. I REALLY appreciate your help.

 

 

abbe

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Hi everyone.

 

I've been reading this thread and find it helpful. :)

My son has a DR appt tomorrow, and I was going to see about getting more tests done.

 

If I ask to get his dopamaine levels checked, that would be worthwhile? I didn't know you could have that done. Does that result show if it's likely that that is what's causing his tics?

 

I guess that would give a clearer path on which way to go. His original DR only did the rast test, and wasn't too interested in anything else. I know there must be alot more we can do to give us a clue. I'm pretty much going along blindly at this time.

 

His new DR has had TS patients, so does have a clue.

 

Lyn.

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Lyn,

 

The only test I know for test for dopamine Levels is the Neuroscience Test. From the reading I have done over the past few years, it should be no surprise to any doctor to see elevated dopamine Levels when tics are involved. I think this is the general theory as to what is helping ultimately to drive the tics. So I don't know if it would be a necesssity to have dopamine levels tested when it is pretty much a given. The Neuroscience test was developed to test for many different levels of neurotransmitters. I believe the main function of Neuroscience Test was for ADHD and how to treat it for a patient.

 

The Neuroscience test does nothing in determining the root cause of the increased dopamine levels. For example, lack of magnesium, lack of B vitamins, reaction to artificial foods, reaction to milk, etc. There are so many things that a persons body can individually be reacting to and there are other tests involved to figure out the allergy root. That is where I would focus. In otherwords focusing on getting the right supplements and avoiding those things that are offending that person.

 

What I am starting to understand is there are many types of enzymes our body needs to process all kinds of foods. If our body is lacking in one of these enzymes then an allergy can develop because the body cannot process the food correctly or chemcial correctly (in the case of artificial foods). I am 100% positive my son is lacking the enzymes needed to process MSG and other chemical foods. I also think the liver not functioning properly with the sulfiate ions are not doing there part. I am sure it is much more complicated then this, because our bodies are so amazing, but this is part of what I think is going on.

 

There is a book called "Enzymes for Autism and Other Neurological Disorders" by Karen DeFlice. I highly recommend it. I would say the only problem with the enzymes, is keeping consistent. They can get expensive and I know when my son is doing well it is real tempting to not do them. Which is not to his benefit I am certain.

 

One other quick note there is no enzyme developed to help process MSG unfortunately. But the vitamin B6 does help process MSG out of the body in higher amounts. My doctor told me if my son came in contact with MSG to give him 100 mg of B6 for the day. So I have to calculate in what he already had in his multi and make it work out to 100 mg's.

 

 

Carolyn

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Thanks Carolyn,

 

Is there any tests that would be helpful then?

 

I want to know where to even start instead of guessing. I do think stress is bad for him {as it is for anyone} but like others, I want to know I'm at least going in the right direction. I wish I had your knowledge.

 

Lyn.

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Abbe,

 

Hello again. Regarding what you read with increased Dopamine and lack of sleep I am sure that is one factor. I know when my son has tics going his tics are always more when he first wakes up and when he starts getting tired.

 

However, with that said he can have the best nights sleep and if he has come in contact with artificial foods (yellow dye's #5 and 6, red dye 40, MSG, vanillin, caramel color, high fructose corn syrup, blue dye) he will get tics if it is in a high enough amount. I am finding as he approaches the peak age of tics 9 to 11 age it is taking less and less to set him off. I have him on a lot of supplements to help counteract the tics. But I 100% can tell you the lack of sleep for Daniel is only a very small reason for the tics. It is primarily diet and lack of the right supplements in his body that increase tics in him.

 

With all that said that does not mean your son is not being affected by the lack of sleep. I am certain if he is that tired he will get more tics. But again from what I have come to understand it seems for the vast majority of people that the tics are generally driven by some sort of reaction to foods, chemicals, or environmental factors. Whether this is because of lack of enzymes in the body, lack of sulfate ions, or many other factors the fact is the body is not keeping up on processing out what it needs to keep it balanced correctly from what is affecting it.

 

Tics are such a multi layer/multi sytem issue. For example, as I stated earlier they can be caused from reacting to an allergen. When you have an allergy the body needs magnesium to fight off the allergen. The body also needs magnesium to calm the nervous system. Magnesium is needed for so many functions of the body. If the body is being drained of magnesium then the person becomes magnesium deficient. Again magnesium calms the nervous system. Also stress and lack of sleep can drain the body of magnesium.

 

So with the multi use of magnesium in the body it is real key in helping battle the tics. I have found magnesium taurate to be the most effective for Daniel. I buy mine through the Vitamin Shoppe and it is also in his Bonnie Grimaldi's TS-Plus supplements. This is also why you will see many people on this forum have used magnesium. But magnesium alone may or may not do the trick. It really depends on the persons body in what they need and what has been drained out of the body.

 

Another example of what can cause tics to increase is the the liver not functioning properly and not processing out the histamine, toxins, and other neurotransmitters. What I have found is it is lack of sulfate ions in the liver.

 

Regarding my reference to "toxins" one of the toxins the liver may not be keeping up on is the toxins from candida. You will see many on this forum dealing with candida which is an overgrowth of yeast. This is one reason concentrating on getting the intestional system in order is real important in both fighting allergies but also making sure the liver is not having to deal with the toxins from candida. The toxins from the candida literally affect the brain and ultimately neurotransmitters including dopamine. You may not have candida as an issue, I don't think I have had that with Daniel, but it is something to keep in mind.

 

Tics can also be partly an amino acid issue. Where the body is lacking certain amino acids. I guess my point is there are so many variables that can ultimately cause the tics, again ultimately to the dopamine levels being raised. But the good thing is by reading this forum you will see what people have done to tackle the most common causes like giving magnesium, giving B vitamins, getting rid of candida, adding in some amino acids, adding enzymes. This is the reason I am spending $150 or more a month on vitamins for Daniel because so many layers of the body are involved in his situation.

 

Think of it this way. Picture a house. When you start building your house you have to have a firm foundation. If you do not have a firm foundation the rest of the house will be unstable. Now picture the human body if you have smaller systems of the body not working properly, the foundation, then the rest of the body is affected. In our children's cases it leads to the ultimate increase in dopamine. But to get to the increase in dopamine levels many different parts of the body have been involved to get to that increase. It is not just a matter of the dopamine being the only thing that has been affected. It is truly a complicated process.

 

I hope this helps and does not confuse you more. Let me know if you want some clarification.

 

 

 

Carolyn

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One other thing... over here in Aust Benadryl is a cough medicine, what does it contain over there?

 

Lyn.

Lyn,

There are many versions of benadryl in the states. We buy the dye free gel caps, as my son has a corn allergy and can't handle the liquid version (loaded with glycerin). The only ingredient besides the histamine is sorbitol (a corn derived sweetener) but it is in such a low amount that it doesn't bother him. Most antihistamines over the counter have artificial colors, etc.... It is very hard to get one that fits the bill. Methionine (amino acid) is also supposed to help lower histamine. We use that in the morning and benadryl at night when my son's allergies are flaring up.

 

--Thanks Carolyn N for the wonderful explanations.

Caryn

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I am not sure if it is that or that the benedryl "knocks" him out at night he sleeps better, his nervous system replenishes he gets tick free.
abbe,

 

thought this was an interesting study

 

http://physiolgenomics.physiology.org/cgi/...t/full/31/3/441

 

 

In both the cerebral cortex and hypothalamus, during sleep there was upregulation of multiple genes encoding various enzymes involved in cholesterol synthesis, as well as proteins for lipid transport. There was also upregulation during sleep of genes involved in synthesis of proteins, heme, and maintenance of vesicle pools, as well as antioxidant enzymes and genes encoding proteins of energy-regulating pathways. We postulate that during sleep there is a rebuilding of multiple key cellular components in preparation for subsequent wakefulness.
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Carolyn.N

Hi, you said if some one's liver is not functioning properly then it can cause tics. On my sons OAT test it said his liver was sluggish.I am just wondering if your son has ever had any liver issues? If so, what did you do? Do you give any supplements to your son for Neurotransmitters (Brain chemistry) because it also stated on my sons OAT test that his Brain Chemistry needed supplements. Did your son ever have eye rolling? My son has it all the time and it's hard for him to focus, Any suggestions? Thanks Char...

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Hi everyone,

 

 

I just wanted to give an update on Nicholas. I chose to speak to his doctor again to question him about the Neuro science supplements and other questions. I feel that he was helpful. I sort of confronted him today in regards to his experience with ts/tics. He told me he has alot of experience and is quoted throughout sheila Rodgers book.. So just an update here Nicholas is not doing the following tics that he was doing eye roll, neck tic, crooked neck, eye roll into neck tic, throat clearing tic he does however exhibit a stomach type roll tic. For some reason this doesn't bother me or him as much I guess because it is hidden. He is getting over a cold that settled in his chest right away. His brother just came down with it today (Oh lucky me) Nick was on Benedryl 1 teaspoon before bed for one week. During that time his tics stoped. (except for the stomach tic. By the way he also I think has a breathing type tic where he kind of sucks air in at times like he is short on breath. It is not noticeable to anyone but me. Anyway, tonight I took him off the benedryl because he has allergy testing next wed. and he needs to be off of all antihistamines prior to. He is still congested and I would have probably kept him on for a few more days tops.

 

I did give him .5 melatonin tonight to assist him in sleeping (Nick is an awful, awful sleeper). I have ordered a natural herb called tart cherries. It produces melatonin naturally which I prefer. Even before all of this happened with Nick I was a holistic mom who used herbs etc.

 

I will keep everyone updated on his progression. I know I caused a stir in regards to the benedryl but I felt it was only fair to share what had happened to me with Nick. It really has been a tough couple of months and I feel that I am so absorbed in healing Nick I miss my other two sons and my husband.

 

 

abbe

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