Jump to content
ACN Latitudes Forums

PANDAS and floaters


Recommended Posts

Hi -

 

Pmoreno writes in one of the latest posts, that the daughter "is complaining of seeing floaters (little things floating around in her visual field). This is something that she had complained of last year when her PANDA symptoms were at their worst."

 

My 8years old PANDASson is complaining of seeing floaters as well when his PANDASsymptoms are at their worst.

 

Is any one else experienceing this ??

 

And : I have tried to find an explanation, but with no success. Have any of you come across such an explanation ??

 

Best regards - and all of the best wishes for you all and your children

PANDAS_Denmark

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Pandas_Denmark,

 

I posted a reply to Pmoreno separately, but yes, our dd did have odd visual distortions. She said hers were like rainbows you see on bubbles. That sort of odd irridesence. In checking with a number of doctors there were a lot of explanations. She could have been having ocular migraines because she wasn't eating. She could have had low-blood pressure because she was dehydrated. Both are certainly possible. Our dd described them as ghosts and became quite scared of them. Even saw them coming out of the tap water and had severe contamination fears.

 

This dissipated when she got on antibiotics. We ask her every so often whether she has a headache or has seen the spots. Nothing so far.

 

Regards,

 

Buster

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi -

 

Pmoreno writes in one of the latest posts, that the daughter "is complaining of seeing floaters (little things floating around in her visual field). This is something that she had complained of last year when her PANDA symptoms were at their worst."

 

My 8years old PANDASson is complaining of seeing floaters as well when his PANDASsymptoms are at their worst.

 

Is any one else experienceing this ??

 

And : I have tried to find an explanation, but with no success. Have any of you come across such an explanation ??

 

Best regards - and all of the best wishes for you all and your children

PANDAS_Denmark

 

How many PANDAS episodes has your son had and when did he start for the first time? How long do they last? Does anything help - like getting on antibiotics? I notice Buster mentioned that once on abx, floaters went away for his dd, Gaby had them with her first episode last year and now with this second episode (which started in August) she just now started having them again (in November). She's been on abx since early Oct. and so it obviously didn't help with this phenomena for her anyways. They make her really angry and she hits and grabs at them - does your son react the same way? Pat

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 5 months later...

Iritis & Uveitis/ PANDAS kids????? I recently realized this could have been behind my blurry vision with recent infection induced rash. The ocular migrains that Buster mentioned in connection to "rainbows" is talked about in some of these articles too.

 

Uveitis

 

http://www.eyecare-information-service.org...tis-iritis.html

 

Infection. Bacterial, viral and fungal strains can cause the inflammation of the eyes and cause uveitis. These would include infections like the herpes simplex eye infection, toxoplasmosis, herpes zoster, syphilis, cytomegalovirus, tuberculosis, gonorrhoea, and Lyme disease.

Autoimmune diseases. The makes antibodies to protect the body from invading foreign bodies like bacterial, viral and other germ strains which can cause serious infection. In autoimmune disease, the antibodies made by the immune system attack the healthy cells and tissues of the body. How this is triggered is not yet known but some people are higher at risk than some other. Autoimmune disorders like Reiter's and Behcets syndromecan cause uveitis. Behcets syndrome causes chronic mouth ulcers and other parts of the body like the lungs, heart, joints, gut and the nervous system.

 

http://www.perret-optic.ch/optometrie/symp...n_gb.htm#iritis

 

Iritis usually refers to a group of ocular inflammatory diseases affecting the iris, ciliary body, and choroid. This is the "uveal tract", and another term for iritis is "uveitis". In acute iritis, the structures near the front of the eye become inflammed. This inflammation is similar to arthritis, except that in arthritis a joint is inflammed. Inflammation affecting the iris and ciliary body usually lead to symptoms of eye pain, sensitivity to light, pain with focusing, blurred vision, eye redness, and sometimes floaters. These symptoms occur because the iris and ciliary body both contain muscles which act to control the pupil size and focusing. Anything causing these muscles to work will cause pain. One, or both eyes can be affected.

 

 

http://canadianuveitissociety.com/information.html

 

Some intermediate (middle compartment of the eye) and posterior (rear compartment of the eye) forms of uveitis may more typically be associated with floaters, flashing lights and blurred vision. Still other forms such as juvenile idiopathic arthritis may be silent despite ongoing active inflammation.

 

 

http://www.perret-optic.ch/optometrie/symp..._gb.htm#rainbow

 

Rainbow Vision

Seeing rainbows around lights, especially at night, usually indicates swelling of the cornea. This may occur from a variety of causes which are discussed under Corneal Edema. Cataract can sometimes cause this also.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 6 months later...

I think I posted something regarding the use of Benfotiamine for uveitis on another thread. I wanted to follow up on why this supplement might help with blurring vision (for my own files of supplements to use or have on hand). I ended up looking at wiki for general info on thiamine. I wanted to leave some of what I found here. Seems I remember some discussion of what could be "thiamine related deficiency," included in some of the eye/vision problem threads. This starts with the study that I found regarding Benfotiamine use for uveitis and has a site which sells it (Source Naturals) near the end. These are just excerpts that I saved in my "notes." Interesting about it's use for regulating blood sugar levels too, since some have found quite elevated levels during flares.

 

http://www.iovs.org/cgi/content/abstract/iovs.08-2816v1

 

Lipophilic Vitamin-B1 Analogue Benfotiamine Prevents Endotoxin-Induced Uveitis in Rats

 

Conclusion: These results suggest that benfotiamine suppresses oxidative stress-induced NF-B dependent inflammatory signaling leading to uveitis and therefore it could be used as a novel therapeutic agent for the treatment of ocular inflammation, especially uveitis.

 

Thiamine

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thiamine

 

Thiamine or thiamin,[1] sometimes called aneurin, is a water-soluble vitamin of the B complex (vitamin B1), whose phosphate derivatives are involved in many cellular processes. The best characterized form is thiamine diphosphate (ThDP), a coenzyme in the catabolism of sugars and amino acids. In yeast, ThDP is also required in the first step of alcoholic fermentation.

 

Thiamine is synthesized in bacteria, fungi and plants. Animals must cover all their needs from their food and insufficient intake results in a disease called beriberi affecting the peripheral nervous system (polyneuritis) and/or the cardiovascular system, with fatal outcome if not cured by thiamine administration.[2] In less severe deficiency, nonspecific signs include malaise, weight loss, irritability and confusion.[3] Today, there is still a lot of work devoted to elucidating the exact mechanisms by which thiamine deficiency leads to the specific symptoms observed (see below). Finally, new thiamine phosphate derivatives have recently been discovered,[4] emphasizing the complexity of thiamine metabolism and the need for more research in the field

 

 

 

Beriberi

 

https://health.google.com/health/ref/Beriberi

 

Overview

Beriberi is a disease in which the body does not have enough thiamine (vitamin B1).

 

Symptoms

Symptoms of dry beriberi include:

 

Difficulty walking

Loss of feeling (sensation) in hands and feet

Loss of muscle function or paralysis of the lower legs

Mental confusion/speech difficulties

Pain

Strange eye movements (nystagmus)

Tingling

Vomiting

Symptoms of wet beriberi include:

 

Awakening at night short of breath

Increased heart rate

Shortness of breath with activity

Swelling of the lower legs

 

Treatment

The goal of treatment is to replace the thiamine your body is lacking. This is done with thiamine supplements. Thiamine supplements are given through a shot (injection) or taken by mouth.

 

Other types of vitamins may also be recommended.

 

Blood tests may be done after you are given thiamine supplements to see how well you are responding to the medicine.

 

Causes

There are two major types of beriberi:

 

Wet beriberi affects the cardiovascular system.

Dry beriberi and Wernicke-Korsakoff syndrome affect the nervous system.

Beriberi is rare in the United States because most foods are now vitamin-enriched. If you eat a normal, healthy diet you should get enough thiamine. Today, beriberi occurs mostly in patients who abuse alcohol. Drinking heavily can lead to poor nutrition, and excess alcohol makes it harder for the body to absorb and store thiamine.

 

A rare condition known as genetic beriberi is inherited (passed down through families). People with genetic beriberi lose the ability to absorb thiamine from foods. This can happen slowly over time and symptoms occur when the person is an adult. However, because doctors may not consider beriberi in non-alcoholics, this diagnosis is often missed.

 

Beriberi can occur in breast-fed infants when the mother's body is lacking in thiamine. The condition can also affect infants who are fed unusual formulas that don't have enough thiamine.

 

Getting dialysis and taking high doses of diuretics raise your risk of beriberi.

 

 

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/000771.htm

 

Wernicke-Korsakoff syndrome

 

Inability to form new memories

Loss of memory, can be severe

Loss of muscle coordination (ataxia)

Unsteady, uncoordinated walking

Making up stories (confabulation)

Seeing or hearing things that aren't really there (hallucinations)

Vision changes

Abnormal eye movements

Double vision

Eyelid drooping

 

 

 

Decreased or abnormal reflexes

Problems with walk (gait) and coordination

Muscle weakness and atrophy (loss of tissue mass)

Abnormal eye movement

Low blood pressure

Low body temperature

Fast pulse (heart rate)

 

 

http://www.benfotiamine.org/

 

This site was established to provide visitors with comprehensive information about benfotiamine, a synthetic derivative of thiamine (vitamin B-1) which shows promise in treating a number of neurological and vascular conditions. Benfotiamine also appears to have beneficial anti-aging qualities, protecting human cells from harmful metabolic end products.

 

Benfotiamine is not just for diabetics. Any population suffering from conditions brought about by unknown or inadvertent thiamine deficiencies should respond well to benfotiamine. Benfotiamine is emerging as the most effective of the thiamine compounds.

 

With benfotiamine, the sustained increase of Thiamine Pyrophosphate (TPP) and the resulting activation of the enzyme transketolase in the system can produce beneficial effects on general nerve health, sciatica, neuropathy, retinopathy, nephropathy, polyneuropathy, peripheral neuropathy (PN), shingles, herpes zoster, fibromyalgia, general ageing, other nerve conditions, vascular health, blood pressure and coronary health for diabetics and non-diabetics alike.

 

 

http://www.luckyvitamin.com/item/itemKey/6...ite=google_base

 

Source Naturals Benfotiamine

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't know if my son had floaters or not. I know one time he freaked out becasue he said there were bugs on him. I don't know ifhe was hallucunating or if they were blurs of vision.

 

Could the swelling of the basal ganglia affect the optic nerve? I really don't know where the basal ganglia is located. Even with living for this for over a year, I never looked at a diagram of the brain.

 

If your child's eyes remain fully dilated during an exacerbation, I wonder if that would cause a strain on the eyes with the amount of light coming through and cause floaters too.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Vicky,

 

Could the swelling of the basal ganglia affect the optic nerve?

 

I was trying to figure out the hows and whys last night. I got as far as NK -B and IL8. I think the blurry vision is a inflammation problem within the eye, not coming from the brain. The benfotiamine study said "The increased phosphorylation of PKC and activation of NF-B in the ciliary body as well as in the retinal wall of EIU- rat eyes was suppressed by benfotiamine. Conclusion: These results suggest that benfotiamine suppresses oxidative stress-induced NF-B dependent inflammatory signaling leading to uveitis,

 

 

http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=17902942

 

To study epithelial inflammatory responses initiated by Streptococcus pyogenes infection, we investigated chemotaxis ability in the supernatant of infected human respiratory epithelial HEp-2 cells. Our results showed that these supematants showed significantly increased ability to attract monocytes, implying the release of inflammatory chemoattractants into the medium. Expression of interleukin (IL)-8 and IL-6 in HEp-2 cells was significantly increased at both the mRNA and protein levels after infection with S. pyogenes. Electrophoretic mobility shift and reporter-gene assays demonstrated that the transcription factors NF-KB and AP-1, regulated by mitogen-activated protein (MAP) kinase, were activated after streptococcal infection. The increases in mRNAs for IL-8 and IL-6 were abrogated by addition of NF-KB and MAP kinase inhibitors, suggesting that the upregulation of IL-8 and IL-6 is mediated through NF-KB and MAP kinase signaling pathways. Taken together, our results indicate that S. pyogenes infection of epithelial cells induces the secretion of pro-inflammatory chemokines/ cytokines through activation of NF-KB and MAP kinase signaling pathways

 

 

http://nejm.highwire.org/cgi/content/extract/336/15/1066

Nuclear Factor-B — A Pivotal Transcription Factor in Chronic Inflammatory Diseases

 

In chronic inflammatory diseases, such as asthma, rheumatoid arthritis, inflammatory bowel disease, and psoriasis, several cytokines recruit activated immune and inflammatory cells to the site of lesions, thereby amplifying and perpetuating the inflammatory state.1 These activated cells produce many other mediators of inflammation.

 

What causes these diseases is still a mystery, but the disease process results from an interplay of genetic and environmental factors. Genes, such as those for atopy in asthma and for HLA antigens in rheumatoid arthritis and inflammatory bowel disease, may determine a patient's susceptibility to the disease and the disease's severity, but environmental factors, often unknown

 

NF-B

 

The Role of NF-B in Inflammatory Diseases

 

Effects of Glucocorticoids on NF-B

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Before we started antibiotics and my dd8 had undiagnosed strep, she had colorful polka dots in her field of vision and also flashes of light. She said it was bad enough that she could not see well. Since she has started on antibotics, although she is still not well, she has not complained of the visual stuff.

 

Susan

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I myself on and off have floaters. I also have migraine headaches with aura - zig zag lines/sun spots/other neurologic distrubances.

 

I recently perused a book in the library called "The Migraine Brain". It looked interesting but I haven't had a migraine in 6 months and it was right next to Against Medical Advice so I had to go with pandas obsession and choose AMA. (Side note - I definitely think that kid had undiagnosed pandas.) It discussed how the migraine brain is different than the normal brain (whatever that is) in a neurological sense. Perhaps there is a subset "PANDAS brain" - ? Or the pandas brain is similar to the migraine brain. We are not Dr. L patients but hasn't her primary focus been headaches? Maybe that's why she gets pandas when others don't?

 

About 6 months prior to pandas behaviors, for about a week my son would complain of intermittent eye pain that would come on suddenly. The dr didn't find anything wrong and suggested to investigate occular migraines if it continued. A few days after that dr visit, he didn't complain anymore. I find this interesting b/c I believe I have a nephew who has undiagnosed pandas in addition to my 5 yo pandas son. I believe it's all got to be related.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hello

 

I've always had a few floaters.. for me I mean (from Mayo clinic site)

 

"Eye floaters may look like dark specks or knobby, transparent strings of material floating within your field of vision. These specks and strings move when you move your eyes, so when you try to look at them, they appear to dart away. In most cases, the floaters eventually settle down to the bottom of the vitreous cavity out of the line of vision. In rare instances, eye floaters can become so numerous that they significantly interfere with your vision.

 

Eye floaters most commonly occur as a result of age-related changes in the vitreous, the jelly-like substance that fills your eyeballs and helps them maintain their round shape. Millions of fine fibers are intertwined within the vitreous. These fibers are attached to the retina, the light-sensitive tissue that lines the back of your eyes.

 

Over time, the vitreous changes in consistency and partially liquefies — a process that causes it to shrink and pull away from the interior surface of the eyeball. Most people over the age of 40 experience this phenomenon to some extent. As the vitreous shrinks and sags, it clumps up and gets stringy. Bits of this debris block some of the light passing through the eye, casting tiny shadows on your retina."

 

Mine got much worse after a c section. I always wondered if they were hanging around but increased fluid levels 'cos of IV fluids dislodged them.

 

The flashy light thig can also be due to floaters. I sometimes get this at the edge of my vision but not often... (again from the may site)

 

Usually, these changes in the vitreous occur gradually. But in some cases, a section of the vitreous will pull away from the retina suddenly — causing many new floaters to appear all at once. You might also see flashes of light when the fine fibers in the vitreous tug on your retina.

 

Sometimes, these fine fibers pull so hard that they cause your retina to tear and pull away from the back of your eye. While a vitreous detachment by itself doesn't threaten your sight, it can cause a retinal tear or a retinal detachment — a medical emergency that requires urgent treatment. A retinal detachment can lead to permanent vision loss.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 year later...

We were at the Opthomologist yesterday w/ appts for my 2 w/ PANDAS and me. The Dr. explained that she can see toxins floating in the interstatial fluid around the eye, the Dr. also said I had more toxins than my son (oh, great.)

She said that I should focus on Detox, whatever method suggested by my practitioner (Pure Body Clear) and she suggested taking Vit. A, C and E.

 

I explained to her that it started to become obvious that my son had a vision problem as his PANDAS improved and many of the PANDAS symptoms and viral symptoms started to fall away. My kids were both diagnosed with near sighted, far sighted and convergence problems. Previously my daughter had a mild nearsightedness. My son's eyes were just fine according to the other Eye Drs we've seen. This Dr. said in passing that that shes seeing far sightedness caused by PANDAS. Anyone else with similar problems?

Thanks,

Erin

 

 

Hi -

 

Pmoreno writes in one of the latest posts, that the daughter "is complaining of seeing floaters (little things floating around in her visual field). This is something that she had complained of last year when her PANDA symptoms were at their worst."

 

My 8years old PANDASson is complaining of seeing floaters as well when his PANDASsymptoms are at their worst.

 

Is any one else experienceing this ??

 

And : I have tried to find an explanation, but with no success. Have any of you come across such an explanation ??

 

Best regards - and all of the best wishes for you all and your children

PANDAS_Denmark

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have had floaters for as long as I can remember. I can see 2 right now, that I wasn't even noticing until I read this post. In highschool I had flashing lights, like far away lightning. In my early 20s I had sparkling zigzag rainbows that were really scary. They were really bad when I was pregnant with PANDAS DS. My doctor said I had migraines without pain. Huh? In December I tested CDC positive for lyme disease. It might be something to consider ruling out.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I had never really thought too much about it, but for a year or so before our 1st PANDAS episode for my DD6 she complained of "things in her eyes" that made it harder for her to see. They seemed to bother her, but never got too bad. She now is PANDAS and Lyme.

They are not consistent, but seem to come and go for a few days at at time. The eye doctor was not able to see anything.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Please do not take floaters lightly. They can be a sign of Bartonella. Bartonella is known to cause retina problems. I had two detached retinas, many tears, and lots of thinning of the retinas several years ago. I lost a lot of peripheral vision. I found out last year that I have Lyme and am now being treated for Bartonella as well. DD also has Lyme and Bartonella and since being treated, PANDAS has been in remission. I suggest having your opthomologist check your retinas and also getting tested for Lyme and co-infections through IGeneX. I wish I knew back then what I know now.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...