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Hi everyone, update and question

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Hi everyone,

I haven't been on here for such a long time. My daughter (age 6 and 3/4 now) has been doing quite well on the tics front. For many, many months they were absolutely minimal... maybe a few sniffs at bedtime. She got sick a few weeks ago and tics increased a bit--a little eye winking here and there, plus more sniffing. Also ran out of taurine just after that. She's back on taurine now after about a 2 week break from it, and tics are reducing again (it verifies for me just how important that particular supp is to my daughter's regimen.)




Hope you and all your children are doing as well as possible.


My question: I've noticed a dramatic increase in her stubborness over the past months. I will say "go sit down and eat" and she will plant her feet and give me the stare. If I say it louder or fiercer, it doesn't change a thing. I sometimes have to pick her up. Later she will hug me and snuggle and sometimes say sorry, so it seems almost like she doesn't WANT to behave this way, she just does. She also doesn't seem as happy-go-lucky as before.


She was never like this before. Do you think it's an age thing, or a tics/tourettes thing? Is there a particular supplement I might add that would help?


I should add that she used to sleep very well with the magnesium (kids calm) at bedtime, but it doesn't seem to be working anymore!


Thank you!


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Thanks for your reply, lurker.


No, she is in grade 2 now. She is a December baby and the youngest in her class. Other than being tired, she did not have trouble adjusting to a longer day and higher work expectations. She did extremely well in grade one, receiving mostly A's as her grades, and does not have any sign of ADD. She is enjoying grade 2 as well.


Also, the dig-in-the-heels things has been going on for a few months at least.

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not an expert but i would go with the age thing... My daughter, with no signs of tics... can get the same way sometimes... stumping off when told something. We went away for the weekend with some friends of ours and her daughter ,3 rd grade, is just like that so stubborn... Will not say sorry when asked to, but later will be all lovey and happy... hoping that is all it is and once she realizes it gets her no where she will go back to her old self



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Maybe try giving her a choice and also give her ample transition time before she has to switch to a new activity. I am assuming she may be a bit advanced for her age, judging by her age compared to classmates and her grades.....

It is possible that she has a hard time transitioning away from something she is really into to do something she has to do. Our ds does well when I offer him time frames and give him options. If he is busy building Anakin Walker's space ship and dinner is ready soon I will remind him that he has to finish in 20 minutes so that he can help me get the table set. If he isn't quite done after 15 minutes I will go and help him finish before time is up and we usually have a nice chat while we build.... It works better than telling him to stop what he is doing right now and come to the table to eat. I would always get opposition because he would feel like I don't "get him". I used to set the kitchen timer when he was too young to understand the concept, but now he can tell time and he gets it. She may just want a bit more independence and more time to do things that she is really into without interference. My ds needs time alone when he gets home from school and I have to keep the small brothers away for the first 15 to 20 minutes while he has his 'down' time. If I don't do that all they do is fight until dinner because he is frustrated and needing space and they don't understand that or give it.

Just a thought. It may or may not apply in your case.

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Those are some good thoughts. I know that in response to her extreme stubborness, I have dug in my own heels: "I'm the mom, I said come, you had better do it now..." But that is obviously not good for the situation. I will try to back down and help the situation along.


But, take this morning for example, she wouldn't get out of bed until I lifted her out of it (yes, she is tired... magnesium doesn't seem to be doing it's magic lately) and that was 20 minutes of asking, begging, pleading to get up. So then we're in a tremendous hurry. She knows this. She saunters down the stairs and stops halfway. I tell her to start eating breakfast. She stands there. And on it goes.


So this is happening even when a transition is not taking place. If we're late and I ask her to hurry from the house to the car, she will go at a snail's pace. On purpose. It's like she wants to infuriate me.


But I do agree that being aware of my own responses to her and helping her with time management will be useful. I need to stop being resentful of this behavioural change. I am mad and I feel betrayed by her (I know that sounds weird, but I'm trying to be honest) because she used to be a good listener who wanted to please me most of the time. Who is this child???

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hello... -_-


I'm glad your daughter is doing so well.


I would put the stubborness down to the age thing. There is that saying "wait til they start grade 2!" lol


I've usually noticed a stubborn streak in all my kids at that stage. Something to do with not being the babies at school anymore etc, "attitude" time kicks in.


I had to laugh when you said at times you have to pick her up and move her... I had that same problem with my very stubborn Miss 13 yr old last week. :lol: ha. She's NOT the one in the family with tics either.


All the best,


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My dd became very defiant during her PANDAS episode...the psychiatrist said the defiance could be part of the OCD from the PANDAS. So if your dd has tourettes it's possible she's getting some OCD/defiance with it?


Also, a throat culture (do 48 hour if rapid is neg) wouldn't hurt anything just to make sure she's not having a "PANDAS-like" reaction to a strep infection. She could be carrying strep in her throat with no symptoms other than a behavior change.

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Thanks so much for your responses.


That is funny about picking up your 13 year old. I hope I won't still be doing it! But I will if I have to!


I will think about the throat culture... might be a good idea.


If mood can be affected by supplements, do you think a calming supplement would rub off and tone down the stubborness? Which ones might be worth a try?



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We definately see the defiance at home also. If it is time for soccer he doesn't want to go, if it is time to get in the car he says no and won't put on his seatbelt. Other times he is fine and sweet and easy to get along with. However the meltdowns in public places when he doesn't get his way are manipulative behavior and we are working to stop it by refusing to give in to the badgering. It can be hard because these kids can be difficult and stuborn. My son wants control. Possibly at school they feel overwhelmed by their lack of control. So they come home and try to dig in their heals over things. It can wreck havoic on your home life. What gets me is he is perfect at school.



Are you still giving prednisone? How much and how long do they want her on it? I have often wondered about its use for the PANDAS episodes. I know it can make you moody too though. I know I have taken it for autoimmune flair ups. It does settle things down.


Yes, I completely agree that defiance is a huge part of PANDAS symptoms for us....it comes with raging, hyperactivity, tics...and when the anti's or prednisone is working she is soooo compliant, we are amazed.
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Hi Indigo,

wow, it's great your dd is better on pred! What antibiotic are you on? Are you going through with the IVIG? Watch out for the pred side effects...my husband was on pred a few years ago for lung inflamation and it made him very cranky/angry.

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Hi Calicat,


Pudgeo had posted about the Amen clinic. When I went to their site, I found this statement.


7. In dealing with kids, employees, even spouses – NO YELLING! Many people with ADD are conflict or excitement seeking, as a means of stimulation. They can be masters at making other people mad or angry. Do not lose your tempers with them. If they get you to explode their unconscious, low energy prefrontal cortex lights up and likes it. Never let you anger be their medication. They can get addicted to it.


That rang a bell with me too! As others have pointed out, this may just be a normal stage of development, but I do have to wonder if our kids get a little "extra rush," at times from it :wub: We don't have ADD here, or I didn't think so, anyway!

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