Aspergers and tourettes

[michele]

I have been reading some and wondered about a possible diagnosis of aspergers for my son. He has always had the relationship of strep with tics and OCD, ADD and emotional behaviors. However he does have all these quirks and fixed interests he dwells on. He dwells on things and can't let things go . He is so emotional and has lots of temper issues and anger. I am starting to see a pattern of learning issues although his memory is good from the past he is not picking up on new concepts such as phoneme awareness and adding up numbers. He has handwriting issues and can't cross mid lines. We have done OT for a year and found lots of sensory issues and he is afraid of getting hurt and won't take risks. He talks alot though and is very outgoing. He has always had these tics that come and go and that is why he was diagnosed with tourettes because he had them for a year. He stomps, gets up on his tip toes, cracks his knuckles and squeals and says potty words "hate, kill, weiner, butt, stupid etc. " How important is it to get a diagnosis of aspergers? Will it make a difference to his treatment or long term care? Is it common to have aspergers and tourettes and pandas? I am wondering how to deal with all of this? The school has been difficult for the past year and doesn't want to give him much help because he appears "normal" to them. We have started seeing a psychologist for the behavior issues and I am wondering if he will be able to help us through this and diagnose and help treat him. I pray he can take some of the stress off of me because it just seems like a lot to handle on my own. Thanks for listening.I am not sure how to discipline a kid with these issues either? How much do you overlook as the disorder? What can they control and when are they manipulating?

 

Michele

[P_Mom]

Michele,

Dr.K believes that a lot of kids with Aspergers develop PANDAS...not all of course, but, he believes there is a connection. I'd really think about going to see him...I think he could really help you guys.

 

Kelly

[EAMom]

Hi Michele,

 

Re aspergers...how is your son socially with other kids? Does he have empathy for others and non-verbal communication skills? If so, he's probably not aspergers.

 

Other things to check out...

In "The Mislabeled Child" (book by Brock and Fernette Eide), they discuss how gifted (and introverted)children are often "mislabeled" has having autism/asperger's. http://mislabeledchild.com/

 

If you are interested in reading more... check out this website/books http://www.templegrandin.com/templehome.html Temple Grandin has asperger's. She has writen several interesting books.

 

(No I don't work for amazon.com! )

[michele]

I would say he is more interested in himself then having empathy for others. If a sibling says Andrew stepped on my foot, he gets mad at the kid he stepped on and starts screaming at them. He doesn't take well to doing things he doesn't want to do. He is combative when given instructions. Always wants to dictate what we are doing. He refuses to do things he doesn't want to do saying they are stupid, dumb and he is not going etc. Gets very mad and slams doors and refuses to do things like buckle his seat belt when he doesn't want to go or climb in the trunk when he doesn't want to get out. He is high on verbal expression, talks endlessly about things he likes. I am not sure on the nonverbal communication. He is loud when he talks. He misinterprets things alot and takes them wrong. However he can look at your face when you talk to him and he does play with friends although they have to play what he likes to do or he will leave them and go off and play alone. He plays the same things always music, movie stores, webkinz. Loves to swing and will swing for hours on end. Memorizes dates and ratings on movies and looks up there reviews and release dates online. However because he is social and does have people he plays with maybe it is not AS because he is social.

 

Michele

Hi Michele,

 

Re aspergers...how is your son socially with other kids? Does he have empathy for others and non-verbal communication skills? If so, he's probably not aspergers.

 

Other things to check out...

In "The Mislabeled Child" (book by Brock and Fernette Eide), they discuss how gifted (and introverted)children are often "mislabeled" has having autism/asperger's. http://mislabeledchild.com/

 

If you are interested in reading more... check out this website/books http://www.templegrandin.com/templehome.html Temple Grandin has asperger's. She has writen several interesting books.

 

(No I don't work for amazon.com! )

[EAMom]

Hi Michele,

 

Hmmm...check out this website http://school.familyeducation.com/learning...html?detoured=1

They also have several printable checklists on asperger's.

 

Asperger's kids can appear to be social (play) if the activity is something they are interested in. They are not so interested in the other kids themselves.

 

Yes, asperger's kids can have OCD, coordination issues, OT issues etc...the whole PANDAS thing kind of confuses everything doesn't it? IMO, I would try to get him evaluated. I think the swinging (or spinning) is an autistic thing too? The fact that he misinterprets things a lot and takes them wrong might be b/c of a problem with non-verbal communication (and taking things too litteraly.)

[faith]

hi michele,

I just have a minute to post, but wanted to just add that the "social" aspect of asbergers does not necessarily mean they are NOT social in the sense of not being friendly, having friends, or socializing, but also could be the opposite. I learned this as my next door neighbor's boy was like this, he was what they called "overly social", for instance, would talk to anyone even the telephone worker in the street like he was his good friend. In other words, it was a social impairment where they could be overly friendly to strangers, whereas they should be guarded with strangers, maybe getting too close too someone when talking to them or inappropriate touching while talking to someone.

 

Does that fit him? Well, aside from that, I am thinking perhaps you are looking to give too much of an exact diagnosis for the school. I don't think they need to know every little aspect, just the tics or ocd alone should be enough. The PANDAS thing is probably way over their heads, so I think maybe if you just simplify it, it should be enough. I don't think the services he gets will change all that much for each diagnosis. Could you just have a diagnisis from your neurologist that he has tics/ocd/anxiety? That is all we needed and it was enough. Maybe the simpler you make it, the simpler they will make it. Just a thought. gotta go, hubby tellin me to go get read to go out, lol!!!

 

regards

faith

[EAMom]

Hi again Michele,

 

it occured to me that you should also have your son's hearing checked...beyond the little test they do at the dr.'s office. (This was recently also recommended, in addition to the neuropsychological tests we are going to do for my dd as she has speech and dyslexia issues...she may not be hearing all the sounds correclty.)

 

The hearing problems can be peripheral (a problem with the ears, for example from fluid behind the eardrums) or central (CAP system=central auditory processing, CAPD=central autidory processing deficits) which means the brain isn't processing the sounds correctly. Chapter 5 of "The Mislabeled Child" (ha! now you know I really do work for Amazon! ) talks about "Auditory Problems in Children" ...discusses how children with auditory problems can be mislabeled with ADHD or even autism.

 

http://www.amazon.com/Mislabeled-Child-Sol...0513&sr=8-1

 

It sounds like the CAPAD testing needs to be done by an experienced audiologst...

 

"The Mislabeld Child" discusses how auditory processing disorders and cause a child to speak too loudly, appear to ignore people, have difficulty "catching the point" of a joke, have trouble with social communication...which all can be mislabeled as aspergers/autism. These kids can end up anxious, depressed, socially withdrawn.

 

Worth checking into?

[michele]

Thank you for the responses. I don't know what I'd do without those of you who take the time to answer questions. I checked out those links. We did do auitory processing he averaged out okay for his age but was low in the area of same sound discrimination. I do think he has some auditory issues with hearing directions out loud. Definite sensory issues and fears.

Those aspergers checklists were good. Yes. I am afraid he does have alot of social issues and following nonverbal cues issues. The way he talks endlessly about his marked likes is another red flag. When friends are over he will leave them and run off to his room to get the toy he wants to do. Another one you answered was the social friend thing. I was wondering because he talks alot and people find him entertaining that he could not have aspergers. Now I see that people may like this person and they may be social even if the conversations are one sided. This is alot to shoulder. I have been told by others before he had aspergers behaviors. With the tourettes and now this possible diagnosis I am going to have to find a way to let out my anxiety over him. If I don't I am worried I will end up with a nervous breakdown. I will talk to our family psychologist who also suspected aspergers just from my description, and our neurologist and see what they suggest about a diagnosis. As for the school I am interested to see what accommodations they suggest based on his tests and what they have seen from him thus far at school. We do have tourettes, add, and PANDAS on his records. To add to my stress, my nineteen month old is still not talking more then a word here or there and seems to turn her feet in from possibly poor muscle tone in her hips/legs. I am so scared of it be something neurological. I don't even want to think the "A" word with her too. I have put her in OT too. To make matters worse, my husband is very odd socially, has no friends, talks little and takes things the wrong way and gets rage behaviors. I have a feeling he has passed on some AS genes that I never knew what he had. I always thought it was depression.

 

Hi again Michele,

 

it occured to me that you should also have your son's hearing checked...beyond the little test they do at the dr.'s office. (This was recently also recommended, in addition to the neuropsychological tests we are going to do for my dd as she has speech and dyslexia issues...she may not be hearing all the sounds correclty.)

 

The hearing problems can be peripheral (a problem with the ears, for example from fluid behind the eardrums) or central (CAP system=central auditory processing, CAPD=central autidory processing deficits) which means the brain isn't processing the sounds correctly. Chapter 5 of "The Mislabeled Child" (ha! now you know I really do work for Amazon! ) talks about "Auditory Problems in Children" ...discusses how children with auditory problems can be mislabeled with ADHD or even autism.

 

http://www.amazon.com/Mislabeled-Child-Sol...0513&sr=8-1

 

It sounds like the CAPAD testing needs to be done by an experienced audiologst...

 

"The Mislabeld Child" discusses how auditory processing disorders and cause a child to speak too loudly, appear to ignore people, have difficulty "catching the point" of a joke, have trouble with social communication...which all can be mislabeled as aspergers/autism. These kids can end up anxious, depressed, socially withdrawn.

 

Worth checking into?

[EAMom]

The good thing is that people with aspergers can have wonderful fulfilling lives...you might want to read Temple Grandin's book Thinking in Pictures. There are also ways to help improve asperger social impairments etc. The Mislabeled Child is a great book b/c it helps you diagnose the problem but also gives you ways to help your child.

 

This is a book I've been wanting to read... http://www.amazon.com/Look-Me-Eye-Life-Asp...9899&sr=8-7 . The author (who has asperger's) also has a blog on Amazon which is great (he is a wonderful photographer!).

 

I understand feeling discouraged...I'm going through the same thing with dd's dyslexia (in addition to PANDAS),but I also realize the diagnosis explains a lot and now we can figure the best way to help her...rather than just thinking "she's not trying" and letting her get so discouraged she ends up hating school and dropping out. We just have to stay positive and do the best with the cards we are dealt. (I know things can be so much worse!)

 

Also, if you know for a fact he has asperger's maybe that would lead you to more effective ways of dealing with his discipline/behavior problems?

 

Keep your chin up Michele!

[michele]

The good thing is that people with aspergers can have wonderful fulfilling lives...you might want to read Temple Grandin's book

 

p;hynbjeZZZZZZZZZZZXi]Thinking in Pictures[/i]. There are also ways to help improve asperger social impairments etc. The Mislabeled Child is a great book b/c it helps you diagnose the problem but also gives you ways to help your child.

 

This is a book I've been wanting to read... http://www.amazon.com/Look-Me-Eye-Life-Asp...9899&sr=8-7 . The author (who has asperger's) also has a blog on Amazon which is great (he is a wonderful photographer!).

 

I understand feeling discouraged...I'm going through the same thing with dd's dyslexia (in addition to PANDAS),but I also realize the diagnosis explains a lot and now we can figure the best way to help her...rather than just thinking "she's not trying" and letting her get so discouraged she ends up hating school and dropping out. We just have to stay positive and do the best with the cards we are dealt. (I know things can be so much worse!)

 

Also, if you know for a fact he has asperger's maybe that would lead you to more effective ways of dealing with his discipline/behavior problems?

 

Keep your chin up Michele!

[michele]

Tonight he hugged my daughter's friend when he saw her. Also wanted to go to a friend's for the osu game. He said her firend is nice. Then he cried so hard when a helmet was stuck on his head. Maybe he is not aspergers. Would he have friends? My neighbor said she thinks he is gifted because of his interests which are older.

The good thing is that people with aspergers can have wonderful fulfilling lives...you might want to read Temple Grandin's book

 

p;hynbjeZZZZZZZZZZZXi]Thinking in Pictures[/i]. There are also ways to help improve asperger social impairments etc. The Mislabeled Child is a great book b/c it helps you diagnose the problem but also gives you ways to help your child.

 

This is a book I've been wanting to read... http://www.amazon.com/Look-Me-Eye-Life-Asp...9899&sr=8-7 . The author (who has asperger's) also has a blog on Amazon which is great (he is a wonderful photographer!).

 

I understand feeling discouraged...I'm going through the same thing with dd's dyslexia (in addition to PANDAS),but I also realize the diagnosis explains a lot and now we can figure the best way to help her...rather than just thinking "she's not trying" and letting her get so discouraged she ends up hating school and dropping out. We just have to stay positive and do the best with the cards we are dealt. (I know things can be so much worse!)

 

Also, if you know for a fact he has asperger's maybe that would lead you to more effective ways of dealing with his discipline/behavior problems?

 

Keep your chin up Michele!

[airbucket]

hi michele,

 

im writing because im in the same boat! i am trying to figure this all out. feel free to PM if youd like to exchange info.

 

your descriptions are so accurate to me, my son is the same way and he has been Dx 3 different times with ausitm, aspergers OCD, Tourettes, and PDD NOS respectively, and also we need to remember that aspergers is one point on the spectrum which i think is more complicated and broad than its described by some doctors. So what matters more could be, do you see social impairments in your son that you dont see in the majority of typical kids?

 

my son is also defiant, argumentative, cranky, curses at times, spits, is mostly interested in just one play theme. BUT he is also completely coginitvely functioning, he understand subtle cues and body language and understands when he is upset after its over, and can be very happy and self controlled. but he is a rollercoaster, sometimes behaving so typical you wouldnt know he had the Dx's and other times so the opposite that life is exhausting and he is miserable. I find a lot of good scheduling and planning ahead at home, free time to do anything, posted expectations and rules, and discussion of feelings and how to handle them are some good tools. Role playing and talking about how our behavior makes others feel etc.

 

There are intersting things out there on these subjects. I am trying to compile everything ive found together. good luck.

 

I would say he is more interested in himself then having empathy for others. If a sibling says Andrew stepped on my foot, he gets mad at the kid he stepped on and starts screaming at them. He doesn't take well to doing things he doesn't want to do. He is combative when given instructions. Always wants to dictate what we are doing. He refuses to do things he doesn't want to do saying they are stupid, dumb and he is not going etc. Gets very mad and slams doors and refuses to do things like buckle his seat belt when he doesn't want to go or climb in the trunk when he doesn't want to get out. He is high on verbal expression, talks endlessly about things he likes. I am not sure on the nonverbal communication. He is loud when he talks. He misinterprets things alot and takes them wrong. However he can look at your face when you talk to him and he does play with friends although they have to play what he likes to do or he will leave them and go off and play alone. He plays the same things always music, movie stores, webkinz. Loves to swing and will swing for hours on end. Memorizes dates and ratings on movies and looks up there reviews and release dates online. However because he is social and does have people he plays with maybe it is not AS because he is social.

 

Michele

[Lindam]

hi michele,

 

im writing because im in the same boat! i am trying to figure this all out. feel free to PM if youd like to exchange info.

 

your descriptions are so accurate to me, my son is the same way and he has been Dx 3 different times with ausitm, aspergers OCD, Tourettes, and PDD NOS respectively, and also we need to remember that aspergers is one point on the spectrum which i think is more complicated and broad than its described by some doctors. So what matters more could be, do you see social impairments in your son that you dont see in the majority of typical kids?

 

my son is also defiant, argumentative, cranky, curses at times, spits, is mostly interested in just one play theme. BUT he is also completely coginitvely functioning, he understand subtle cues and body language and understands when he is upset after its over, and can be very happy and self controlled. but he is a rollercoaster, sometimes behaving so typical you wouldnt know he had the Dx's and other times so the opposite that life is exhausting and he is miserable. I find a lot of good scheduling and planning ahead at home, free time to do anything, posted expectations and rules, and discussion of feelings and how to handle them are some good tools. Role playing and talking about how our behavior makes others feel etc.

 

There are intersting things out there on these subjects. I am trying to compile everything ive found together. good luck.

 

I would say he is more interested in himself then having empathy for others. If a sibling says Andrew stepped on my foot, he gets mad at the kid he stepped on and starts screaming at them. He doesn't take well to doing things he doesn't want to do. He is combative when given instructions. Always wants to dictate what we are doing. He refuses to do things he doesn't want to do saying they are stupid, dumb and he is not going etc. Gets very mad and slams doors and refuses to do things like buckle his seat belt when he doesn't want to go or climb in the trunk when he doesn't want to get out. He is high on verbal expression, talks endlessly about things he likes. I am not sure on the nonverbal communication. He is loud when he talks. He misinterprets things alot and takes them wrong. However he can look at your face when you talk to him and he does play with friends although they have to play what he likes to do or he will leave them and go off and play alone. He plays the same things always music, movie stores, webkinz. Loves to swing and will swing for hours on end. Memorizes dates and ratings on movies and looks up there reviews and release dates online. However because he is social and does have people he plays with maybe it is not AS because he is social.

 

Michele

[Lindam]

SOUNDS LIKE YOU JUST DESCRIBED MY SON TO A "T"! I HAVE BEEN GOING THRU A MILLION AND ONE DIAGNOSIS' AND FINALLY FOUND IT--HE HAS BIPOLAR, AND ODD OPPOSITIONAL DEFIANT DISORDER--HE IS ON RISPERADAL FOR THE BIPOLAR AND PROZAC FOR THE ODD, HE HAS ALSO BEEN DIAGNOSED WITH NVLD, OCD, AND HE HAS SENSORY INTEGRATION DYSFUCTION. LOOK UP THE BIPOLAR CHILD ONLINE--MY SON HAD EVERY SYMPTOM--THEY HATE THE WORD NO VERY DEFINANT, AND THE SWINGING IS DEFINATELY SENSORY--YOU WILL NEED TO GET HIM TO AN OT-OCCUPATIONAL THERAPSIT FOR SENSORY ASAP! ODD IS DEFINANCE WITH EITHER EMPATHY OR NO EMPATHY AND CAN LEAD TO CONDUCT DISORDER(SWEARING)....HOPE THIS HELPS--GETTING THE RIGHT DIAGNOSIS HELPS CAUSE MY SONS DOING GREAT ON HIS MEDS BUT HE HAS DEVELOPED A SMALL TIC IN HIS HEAD NOW--THAT'S WHY I'M ON HERE--LOOKING UP THAT!! I KNOW BIPOLAR KIDS GET THE TIC EVENTUALLY HE IS 7 YEARS OLD NOW WAS DIGNOSED AT 5 YEARS !

[Chemar]

Hi Michele

 

do try to also balance all you are reading and hearing with the fact that often our kids can have a lot of symptoms in common with some disorders BUT that does not necessarily mean they have those disorders.

Many of these neuro issues are spectrum disorders and syndromes, which means a number of things can overlap and sometimes make clear dx very difficult.

 

and to all our members...... just a gentle reminder to be real careful when suggesting treatments or diagnoses......

forums like ours are so very valuable for sharing info and experiences, but we really do need to be very careful about crossing the line on diagnosing, as well as prescribing treatments