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PANDAS, antibiotics, and yeast


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I like your statement about repeated attacks resulting in a "baseline change"....I hope this isn't true but I think it might be...so we end up with kids with chronic tics (or other problems) which didn't have to be that way if their PANDAS was appropriately controlled (eg with prophylactic abs or possibly IVIG) vs. just treating their symptoms (with meds for tics or OCD) for years on end.

 

 

Exactly!

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  • 2 years later...

I don't think that the baseline would be changed from continuous infections. Infections increase symptoms which change the baseline at the time of the infection but when the infection leaves, the symptoms should as well. When symptoms occur, its because anti brain antibodies are messing around with dopamine SIGNALING in the brain. The antibodies themselves aren't attacking the brain tissue because there is no demylisation in PANDAS (sp) Once the antibodies are removed by PEX, IVIG or steroids, the symptoms resolve.

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I don't think that the baseline would be changed from continuous infections. Infections increase symptoms which change the baseline at the time of the infection but when the infection leaves, the symptoms should as well. When symptoms occur, its because anti brain antibodies are messing around with dopamine SIGNALING in the brain. The antibodies themselves aren't attacking the brain tissue because there is no demylisation in PANDAS (sp) Once the antibodies are removed by PEX, IVIG or steroids, the symptoms resolve.

Alyssa - I do agree with you about the antineruonal antibodies. Once they are gone, we should see a return to baseline. I would like to think you are correct... but I have fears that this may not turn out to be the case.

 

I think that we also have to recognize that we are talking about developing brains. Synapses formed in the brain become very strong when repeated over time with children.I worry that some of the behaviors we see with PANDAS exacerbations will become learned (semi permanent) behaviors after the antibodies are gone. Also, there is brain plasticity that can actually change the number of receptors that neurons have, depending on whether the receptors receive stimulation or not. If the antibodies are attaching to receptors and stimulating them then that can be a problem too.

 

Children's brains are much more plastic / changeable than adults.It makes me wonder (and worry) about kids who live in one PANDAS exacerbation after another (like my son with chronic sinusitis)... what will be their "baseline" once we get them clear??

 

I hope you are right and my fears are incorrect. I think only time and lots of research will tell.

Edited by kimballot
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Here is how I determine if my kids are under an autoimmune attack or a pathogen-toxin attack (although this may not work in the case of strep unless it is purely intestinal strep). When they start going downhill, I give activated charcoal. If they completely normalize within 30 minutes, then I know that there is a pathogen in the gut putting out toxins, the charcoal absorbs it and the behavior completely stops for 2 hours. This does not cure the problem, just gives temporary relief and helps me to dx what is going on so that I have some feedback for the DAN doc.

 

If charcoal does not do the trick I then give ibuprofen. If that normalizes the behaviors, then I know it is an autoimmune/inflammatory attack on the basal ganglia.

 

As an interesting but unrelated note, in my 2yo I can always tell if the basal ganglia is swelling b/c it exacerbates his chiari malformation (seems to be the ONLY thing that causes chiari to flare!). The second his pandas symptoms start, he grabs the back of his head b/c his chiari hurts!)

 

I also suggest an OAT test b/c clostridia will also increase inflammation in some kids, an on top of that it will put out the toxins. So double whammy. Nothing brings down my 6yo like gut bacteria, not even strep. Personally, I don't think that IVIG would help this.

 

And, yes in our case, yeast causes verbal tics, where strep only causes motor tics. We also walk a fine line there. For us it is a daily balancing act. Yesterday I missed his yeast med and this morning I paid dearly! And if I miss his OLE, we pay with pandas symptoms! No room for error, here!

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