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My daughter 14 and she did have the varicella vacination. What is your opinions on what to do next.

Get the vacination(booster) or not. I have a friend who's sister in law did not have the chicken pox and when one of her children got the chicken pox she got sick and passed away. How bad is the shingles, and

can they still get the chickenpox if they had the shot. Which way do you go , your like in a no win sitution here. It's scary.

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My daughter is 11, got the varicella vaccine at age 1, and then shingles at age ten. Yes, you can still get chicken pox even if you are vaccinated. It seems to break out every year at our elementary school and the majority of the kids are vaccinated. They say if you are vaccinated and get chicken pox it is milder, but I don't know that firsthand. My plan is to let my three boys get chicken pox and my daughter will get her "booster" from being around them. I am just nervous that if her immune system at the time is messed up that she could get shingles again. Any of us can get shingles, but is is mostly seen in the elderly, so we would most likely not get it until we grow older, God willing. When my daughter got shingles there was a boy in her class with chicken pox. She was not sick at the time, so we assumed it was b/c of her immune system being "off" from PANDAS. I had a lot of bloodwork done on her at the time to make sure there was not something else going on that caused her to get shingles at such a young age.

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Hi Kim,

I am concerned about any vacciation now. from flu shot to a chickenpox shot.

The FDA dose not test these vaccinations the company's do.

Like Merck&CO they do all the tests and then give the results to the FDA!!!!..........And the pick the best results.

To fine out more go to this web-site.


Merck is the one that has put out the new shot PRO,QUAD.

The experimental vaccine!!!!

It is a all in one shot it includes MMR,DTP,VARICELLA.

This shot can cause FEBRILE SEIZURES.

All this info is on there web-site including the RECALLS OF VACCINES AND THE LOT NUMBERS <_<


I don't know what has happen in the last few years but, I do know that when my kids got there VACCINATIONS I did,nt have to worry!!!

My kids got all there shots and they are doing just fine now My son is 32 and my daughter is 27.

Kids are getting shots now and they are coming down with, AUTISAM ADHDA ADD TOKURETTS SYNDROME.

20 years ago this was not happening so why now?????????????????????


Judy :)

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I do remember being angry about the wording on the state web site.....but the best thing you can do is just bypass it, fill out the form and be done with it!! They want to make you feel guilty and make you feel you are putting other children at risk....which is NOT the case at all!! They want everyone to believe that Vaccinations ARE mandatory when they are not!! I'm always shocked when I hear parents say "you have a choice about vaccines?" They want us to believe we don't have a choice and they are doing a good job at dumbing us down.


Dr.'s, I believe, take an oath to uphold the "govt standard", so I believe legally they are protecting themselves by encouraging the vaccines. You never have to justify any decision you make for your child....sign whatever you have to but don't feel you owe a doctor or anyone else an explanation!


Our Family Dr. is a Naturopath (medically trained and also trained as a naturopathic physician)......I use medical doctor's for emergency only. I try to align my family with the healthcare providers who support what we believe in. If your Doctor doesn't support your beliefs about vaccinations....I encourage people to find a new Doctor!! They are out there!!!!


If you do vaccinate wait until your babies immune systems have developed (I wouldn't do vaccines the first year of life!!) Don't get a lot of vaccines all at once, Make sure the vaccines are thimerasol free, Flu vaccines still have thimerasol (mercury) in them, they are not regulated! A lot of times having very high doses of mercury! I encourage people when making the vaccine decision to just be informed and know your rights. We only hear one side of the story, it is up to parents to educate themselves about vaccines so they can say....."I've read both sides of the issue and this is my decision" and whatever the decision, feel great about it!

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Case study

Anti-basal ganglia antibodies and acute movement disorder following herpes zoster and streptococcal infections


Received 29 September 2006; revised 3 November 2006; accepted 3 November 2006. Available online 11 December 2006.



Anti-basal ganglia antibodies (ABGA) have been associated with poststreptococcal encephalitis similar to encephalitis lethargica (EL). We report two children with parainfectious encephalitis of similar phenotype and IgG ABGA. However, the associated pathogens in the two cases differed; β-hemolytic streptococcus and herpes zoster. ABGA may not be specific to poststreptococcal encephalitis, but rather a surrogate marker of an inflammatory mediated movement disorder, which may respond to immunotherapy.

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Interesting stuff, Kim. On reading that, I came across this....


To investigate the immune-mediated response in TS, and its relationship with streptococcal infection, we measured serum levels of soluble intercellular adhesion molecule-1 (ICAM-1), vascular cell adhesion molecule-1 (VCAM-1) and E-selectin in patients with TS, compared to healthy and diseased controls. Soluble VCAM-1 and sE-selectin were significantly elevated in children and adults with TS, and sVCAM-1 was higher among anti-basal ganglia antibodies (ABGA)-positive adults with TS. No correlation of adhesion molecule levels to clinical severity or anti-streptococcal antibodies was observed. Children with Sydenham's chorea and paediatric autoimmune neuropsychiatric disorders associated with streptococcal infections (PANDAS) showed an increased level of sICAM-1, but not sVCAM-1 and sE-selectin. These results provide initial evidence for a role of adhesion molecules and systemic inflammation in TS, and support the hypothesis of an ongoing immune-mediated process in this condition.



Could this begin to explain the difference in TS and PANDAS?? They are so similiar..I was beginning to wonder if they were one in the same. I guess not.............

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This is so far over my head, but wouldn't this indicate that N-acetylglucosamine, via branching activity, would be beneficial in both cases, whether strep related or not?


I have done so much research and I am firmly convinced that no matter how a tic disorder is initiated (strep, allergy, vaccine, nutritional deficiency, errant genes, virus ...), we all end up with a disregulated immune system that cannot calm down (chronic inflammation).


I don't mean to upset anyone, but IN MY OPINION, I think we are all dealing with the same thing. There just seems to be a difference in the proverbial "straw that broke the camel's back." Even in clear-cut cases of PANDAS, where there is no question that strep initiated the tics in a dramatic way and needs to be avoided, some of these kids appear to be set off by a virus or red dye and other things that are not strep related.


I think we should all be looking into ways to down-regulate or modulate the immune system and reduce inflammation. Just from looking at the tic triggers checklist, I can see that most items are inflammatory: artificial dyes and preservatives = inflammatory; chlorine = inflammatory; pollens and molds (if you are allergic) = inflammatory; wheat/dairy/corn = inflammatory; stress = inflammatory.


Also, the conventional drugs that work for some people -- many are anti-inflammatory (blood pressure medications). Azithromycin (sp?) = anti-inflammatory. Removal of dietary items provoking antibody response = anti-inflammatory.


Omega 3 oil is the only non-pharmaceutical anti-inflammatory that seems to appear regularly in research with acknowledged benefit. We need to find more. I can't imagine there is or ever will be a lot of grant money for non-pharmaceuticals as there is not enough profit.


Any suggestions or experience with natural anti-inflammatories?


(Sorry for the rant. I'm a shut-in today with two sick kids.)



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Hi Tami


yes, I tend to agree re the immune system being out of whack nomatter the root cause of the tics, tho not sure that it is a clearcut inflammatory response for all.

I think the genetic makeup determines if and how the individual responds to the triggers


re natural anti-inflammatories:

I have had to study up a lot on these for my son's Crohn's and this is what he successfully uses to keep the inflammation down


Curcumin (from turmeric)




cayenne (capsaicin)


omega 3 from flaxseed oil


in addition to taking these in supplement form, we have also increased their use in food preparation


also white willow bark, a naturally occurring form of salicylate aka "nature's aspirin"

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P Mom




I'm so glad you read the studies to the right. Those adhesion molecules are what is taking up every minute that I can spare.


I didn't think there was any point mentioning it, because I don't understand it enough to explain anything, but like I said, I'm trying!


this is just a starting point



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I missed the response from you and Cheri above Pmom's. Let me ask you this (it's way premature...as usual I have this wicked tendency to move above concepts when I'm not even sure of the basics) Did you get from the anti basil ganglia thread, that GlcNAc was what was being attached in brain tissue and in the strep capsule? Was GlcNAC one of the cross reactive glycans?



I sure do agree about the inflammation aspect, but I'm still looking at these genetic issues.

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well, rather than edit in to my post above yours Kim, I will post again to avoid confusion :huh:


I am multitasking today and hubby not well ): so want to correct a statement I made above where I said

"I think the genetic makeup determines if and how the individual responds to the triggers"


what I want to clarify is that I feel that is the case in many but not all. It came across as a rather sweeping statement which was not my intent


I also know without a shadow of doubt that sometimes "perfectly healthy" (if there is such a category :blink: ) kids and adults are impacted by things that totally throw their systems for a loop and then many health issues can occur, whether or not they have a genetic link.

I am not implying that every illness or allergy or neurological or behavioral disorder is always genetically coded.....


only that I do feel strongly re the manifestation of Tourette Syndrome Spectrum of Disorders, that there is a genetic susceptibility that can be triggered by a variety of factors to manifest


but back to the inflammation thing....it really is amazing how when one starts to look into it, inflammatory reactions are at the root of soooo much illness!



speaking of which..........

I have now got a confirmed rheumatoid arthritis dx for my achy foot.. another autoimmune, inflammatory illness, so am now treating myself on natural arthritis treatment diet and taking those anti-inflammatories listed above for myself too! (oh btw I left out white willow bark, nature's "aspirin" in that list and have edited it in)



I have a question re inflammation for those of you chemistry minded researchers.....It is known that salicylates help control inflammation, so how come so many represented here are salicylate sensitive re ticcing??

(my son excluded as he seems to benefit from salicylate containing foods and supps)

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hi Tami

yes, I think salicylate sensitivity/tic trigger is likely allergy/intolerance related

( penicillin btw is deadly for me and both my sons. I was exposed as a kid and it was a very severe reaction)


my Q re the inflammation/salicylate thing was more because I have gotten the feeling that many more who have posted here over the years *do* notice salicylate sensitivity than dont, and so was intrigued to maybe try to put together some pieces there re the interesting point you made earlier that inflammation may be a common denominator for all of our kids .


just thinking out loud and really wasnt trying to pose it as anything other than a question that interested me because of my son seeming to benefit so from it, especially since the Crohn's started

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