8 Year Old Daughter with vocal tic

[Tx1911]

Almost 2 weeks ago my 8 year old daughter began a vocal tic sounding like half of a hiccup or a gasp for air. My wife said last summer she had a very mild version of the same thing but I never noticed it. Anyway right about the time she got it she was preparing for the TAKS test ( reading test that all 3rd graders must pass to got to the 4th grade ), very stressful. She got a stomach bug ( on a Monday, TAKS test was Wed ) where she was throwing up and her stomach hurt. Called the Dr. and he gave her Phenegrem to stop the vomitting. Well she got well but that is when the tic began very pronounced and she hasn't gotten rid of it. I also want to mention a week before she started the tic she was getting the FLU and the doctor gave her TAMIFLU, she finally got well from that. I took her to the doctor about a week ago to make sure that she was alright and the Dr. did the blood test for strep, everything was fine, he said it was a tic. The Dr said we could treat it with Clonidine but he wanted to give it some time to go away since she has been under the stress of the TAKS test. Lately the tic is virturally none existent during the morning time but when she gets home from school it really starts up. My daughter mentioned to me she hardly does it in school and we have told her teacher to watch her. But we have never gotten a call from her teacher to say it is a disruption or to even tell us if she even notices her doing it at all. My daughter also goes to speech in school because she works on the saying words that have the F or R at the beginning, and does stutter at times. She use to have a type of a dry cough when she was in the 1st and 2nd grade and cleared her voice from time to time back then. But we always thought it had to do with her allergies, she does have allergy problems every once in a while. We usually give her Zyrtec for it. If anyone can piece this puzzle together please respond. And should we try the Clonidine ?

[faith]

Hello tx and welcome,

I think if the teacher has not said anything, then it is probably not an issue in school, so that is good. My son has a vocal that is something like you describe and also can be a "hem" or a whimpering sound. It is noticed by his teacher (he is also a third grader), but thankfully it has not been any kind of social problem for him, and his teacher has been great in understanding. It sounds like maybe your daugher does this when stressed.

 

I don't think anyone here will advise the clonodine. That would be a last resort. Personally I feel her tic is too mild for meds. If it is just this vocal tic, maybe start off by trying some the product called "Natural Calm" (or "kids calm") that many here like which is a magnesium drink known for having a calming effect. Hopefully this is just a transient tic that will come and go maybe at times of stress.

 

Faith

[Tx1911]

Hello tx and welcome,

I think if the teacher has not said anything, then it is probably not an issue in school, so that is good. My son has a vocal that is something like you describe and also can be a "hem" or a whimpering sound. It is noticed by his teacher (he is also a third grader), but thankfully it has not been any kind of social problem for him, and his teacher has been great in understanding. It sounds like maybe your daugher does this when stressed.

 

I don't think anyone here will advise the clonodine. That would be a last resort. Personally I feel her tic is too mild for meds. If it is just this vocal tic, maybe start off by trying some the product called "Natural Calm" (or "kids calm") that many here like which is a magnesium drink known for having a calming effect. Hopefully this is just a transient tic that will come and go maybe at times of stress.

 

Faith

 

Thanks for a quick reply Faith .....

 

What about the L-Carnitine that I have read about in this forum ?

[faith]

It has been good for a few, but I have tried that and felt after a couple of days I thougt it had increased his tics, so I stopped. Some things that work for some, may have an adverse effect on others, so it is trial and error. I don't know if you've been reading here for a while, but you will see that some say fish oil seems to increase their kids' tics, and I think that is the effect for my son too, so I don't use that either. Really, I think trying some supplements and perhaps looking at dietary changes would be a good start. Does your daughter drink alot of milk? It is possible that dairy could be a trigger for her gasping sound. Also, look at possible allergies. Again, it is alot of trial and error. You will have to do a little research and detective work. There is lots to read here. Have you heard of the book listed at the top of the lattitudes page by Sheila Rogers called "Tics and Tourettes, Identifying Possible Triggers"? You might be able to find it at one of your libraries.

 

I know this is stressful and worrisome for you as this tic of hers is a new thing, but hopefully it will not be too much of a problem as you fear and will settle down soon. Have you noticed any other motor tics along with this, or just this vocal?

 

Faith

[Chemar]

Hi

we had much success with L carnitine for vocal tics

 

do be careful of clonidine. I have recent experience of someone becoming severely psychotic on it.

 

sorry to be so brief but gotta run

 

all the best

Cheri

[CSP]

Welcome Tx,

 

My son used the Clonidine patch for about a month. We were told from the neuro that the Clonidine would not help with the vocal tics, and for my son it was to calm his body down, because he exploded with motor tics like crazy. The neuro said after we had him on the patch we could take him off to see how his body would be, and I'm happy to say he never had to go back on it again. I don't know if there is a difference between the patch and a pill tho.

 

When my son was screaming the neuro said we had only 2 choices of medication for vocal tics. He started with Risperdal, and I can't remember the other since we did not need it. So I'm wondering what has changed in the Clonidine that Dr. are now giving it for vocal tics?

 

My son was very tired on the Clonidine patch and one could really see he was not himself. He is very athletic and it was hard to watch him sit on the couch and not want to do anything. I also want to add the risperdal the neuro said would only take the vocals away about 50%. He was on that for 6 months and he does not take any meds now, and he tics still about the same as he did when on the risperdal.

 

I would really try other natural things first. Faith told you about the Natural Calm, and you could try a fish oil too, as it helps calm kids, and helps with school work.

 

C.P.

 

P.S. I would go slow with the supplements and only introduce one at a time.

[Calicat]

Consider a trial of taurine. That was exceptionally helpful with my daughter's vocals (throat clearing and sniffing).

 

Calicat

[Heather M]

I just found this board about 3 weeks ago. My 13 year old DD developed a verbal tic. The was saying "Tuh" like 4-7 times a minute. I asked one of her teachers about it and she said she wasn't doing it in class. When observing DD with friends, she wasn't doing it all that much..hardly noticeable. It was driving us nuts at home.

 

After finding this board, I put her on a magnesium/calcium supplement, started giving her Epsom salt baths. Last week I took her to a hypnotherapist and her verbal tic was gone within a couple of days. I posted about it last week. The therapist worked on relaxation techniques. But now she has started doing a yawning, nose crunching thing, but it's not frequent. I'll take that ove rthe verbal tic any day. She also has severe seasonal allergies and I just put her on nasonex.

 

When talking to a adolescent Dr. friend who told me about meds. But since she was only doing it at home, we weren't going to go that route. I know it may sound flaky and a bit weird, but the hypnotherapy really seemed to help. I thought it would be good even if it didn't help the tic, but to help her relax.

 

Anyway, good luck. LIke I said, my DDs tic came on suddenly and seems to have left suddenly. I hope it's the same thing for you. The most important thing is to relax and don't make her feel bad about it. Pretend it doesn't bother you. When my DD was ticing, if we just pretended it didn't bother us, she didn't get all upset about it or feel bad.

Heather M

[Tx1911]

Thanks to everyone for their suggestions. I talked to my daughter's teacher and she says she does it in school. She said it is not disturbing the class or anything and my daughter seems to be in good spirits in class. Her speech teacher said the same thing about her. Both teachers say she does it but not as frequent as I describe how she does it at home.

 

Well I have a short list of things I want to try.

 

- magnesium/calcium supplement ( can someone suggest a brand )

- taurine ( do they sell this as a supplement ? )

- L-Carnitine

- fish oil ? ( I take it for my heart, will it help with the tic )

- anti-biotics ? ( a low dose .... which kind ) I just read that helped some kids, don't know if it would help in my situation.

 

I really want to start off with the L-Carnitine. If anyone can suggest what to start off with that would help. She is 8 years old and weighs about 63 pounds.

 

And again thanks to everyone. And if anyone has any new suggestions please post.

[Tracey111]

Hey,

 

I give my son Magnesium Taurate by Cardiovascular Research Ltd. I also give him calcium citrate, B vitamins, and organic flax seed oil. His tics are still present, but much better these days. Also, I eliminated artificial colors, flavors, and went low salycilate. All of this came from this forum. The head jerks and huffing out tic went away. He now blinks and started a sniffing tic this week, but they are under control.

 

Also, my nephew has TS and I do recall that when he was in elementary school he has vomitting issues that would come on suddenly. My sister thought it was GI the whole time. She finally realized that it was a tic. She medicated for tics later, but only when they became severe and dx as TS. He had very severe tics though!!!

 

I hope the info on this site helps you find an answer!!!!!

[Jeff]

Hi tx, I would certainly recommend eliminating artificial colors, flavors, and the "BH" preservatives BHT, BHA, and TBHQ from her diet. The art colors, in particular, are notorious for causing tics.

Read the ingredients on foods. If you see artificial colors, like Yellow #5, Red #40, etc., get rid of that food item, and find an all-natural substitute.

Jeff

[kim]

TX,

 

Not sure if you're aware of this or even if this was the drug your daughter was taking, but i suspect they are at least related, if not the same?

 

http://www.medsafe.govt.nz/Profs/Datasheet...henerganinj.htm

 

Adverse Effects

Side-effects may be seen in a few patients: drowsiness, dizziness, restlessness, headaches, nightmares, tiredness, and disorientation. Anticholinergic side-effects such as blurred vision, dry mouth and urinary retention occur occasionally.

 

Newborn and premature infants are susceptible to the anticholinergic effects of promethazine while other children may display paradoxical hyperexcitability. The elderly are particularly susceptible to the anticholinergic effects and confusion due to promethazine. Other side-effects include leucopenia, agranulocytosis, aplastic anaemia, thrombocytopenic purpura, marked irregular respiration, anorexia, gastric irritation, loss of apetite, nausea, vomiting, diarrhoea, constipation, palpitations, bradycardia, hypotension, arrhythmias, extrapyramidal effects, muscle spasms, tinnitus, euphoria, nervousness, insomnia, convulsive seizures, oculogyric crises, excitation, catatonic-like states, hysteria, tardive dyskinesia and tic-like movements of the head and face. Jaundice and blood dyscrasias including haemolytic anaemia rarely occur. Very rare cases of allergic reactions, including urticaria, rash, pruritis, and anaphylaxis have been reported. Photosensitive skin reactions have been reported; strong sunlight should be avoided during treatment. The preservatives used in PHENERGAN injection have been reported to cause hypersensitivity reactions, characterised by circulatory collapse with CNS depression, in certain susceptible individuals with allergic tendencies.

[kim]

In addition to last post, thought you might want to search "Tamiflu+dangers." You may be aware of some of the adverse reports with this drug? Boy, I feel more and more like the grim reaper here

 

lecithin promotes choline. Is your daughter taking a multi vit? Egg yolks provide it too.

 

This is something i ran across in my "saved files" i didn't go back over it, but thought there might be something helpful

 

 

http://www.pslgroup.com/dg/10472a.htm

 

Tacrine is a cholinergic agent that promotes acetylcholine transmission in the brain. It is currently approved for the management of selected memory disorders but not for Tourette syndrome. In contrast to Tacrine, drugs that block acetylcholine transmission can aggravate tic and need to be used cautiously in Tourette syndrome, Dr. Juncos said

[Tx1911]

Yes when she was throwing up a lot we gave her the promethazine ( generic phenegrem ), actually a half dose of it. And we only gave her that one half dose. And before when she was sick with the flu like symptoms when gave her the TAMIFLU everyday until she was finished with it.

 

Kim ... thanks for the info. My daugther about 4 days ago displayed a slight head jerking back, like if she was fixing her hair and it was in her eyes. But that only lasted less than a whole day and only did it every once in a while. Anyway Kim do you think that generic phenegrem would stay in her system that long ???

 

Today is 2 weeks since she started her vocal tic, praying everyday. Thanks to everyone for their support on this.

[kim]

No Tx, I don't think it's still in her system, but I don't know if the effects that could have been induced, would reverse quickly if there was a propensity for it in the first place.

 

If you look at the half life, the longest I see is on the wiki site. It sounds from your post like it was well beyond the period that the actual drug might still be in effect.

 

I'm not sure about Tamiflu. I don't know if it would have a 1/2 life like a drug? I guess btwn the illness, stress, and the two drugs, it's kind of hard to say what was the trigger. I sure hope it just passes without further incident. Just learn as much as you can about the possible "triggers" like anitcholergenics and such, so you can be on the lookout in the future. Also, you may want to google something like "drugs that induce movement disorders" I know I have read through those several times.

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Promethazine

1/2 life info is on the chart on the right

 

 

http://www.migraines.org/treatment/prophnrg.htm

 

The elimination half-life is 10-14 hours, with excretion of metabolites in the urine and the feces.