vaccinations

[bmom]

I was just reading Lumberjacks topic and wondering what mom's do here about vaccinations? My 3 year old just got over strep and I took her to the Dr. for her 3 year check up. He wanted to give her 2 shots- Hep and chicken pox. I said I wanted to wait because she just got done with being sick and I want to get her immunity strong. He looked at me like I was crazy. My son is the one who had some tics, but I have them both in public school so I dont know what everyone does on this issue. I just worried about shots now, but dont see how to get around them or if I want to. What do you all do?

[kim]

bmom,

 

YOU WERE ABSOULTELY right to decline vaccines if your daughter recently had strep and was on antibiotics. Was the shot Hep A or B?

 

I can't post a lot right now, but I would encourage you to look at this site, and find out what immunizations are even required for school attendance in your state. I was shocked to see what my boys were given, and what's actually required for school here. There are exemptions available for school in the event you decide not to vaccinate further.

 

 

http://www.vaclib.org/indexdoc.htm

 

 

edit....be sure to pay attention to the difference btwn REQUIRED and RECOMMENDED when researching this

 

 

.

[kim]

reported by a poster on motering.commune vaccine forum

 

http://www.mothering.com/discussions/forumdisplay.php?f=47

 

 

full page ad in today's USA Today (page 10A)

 

http://www.generationrescue.org/pdf/070626.pdf

 

Cal-Oregon Unvaccinated Survey

 

Background

 

"We surveyed over 9,000 boys in California and Oregon and found that vaccinated boys had a 155% greater chance of having a neurological disorder like ADHD or autism than unvaccinated boys." - Generation Rescue

[faith]

found this on my homepage under 'popular searches'. Interesting....first time I've seen tics mentioned in relation to vaccines...... ............. can't figure if they're saying vaccines "do" or "don't"....

 

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=206...efer=healthcare

 

 

 

Faith

[kim]

Is anyone watching Jenny McCarthy on larry king? CNN

 

Faith,

 

Does anyone have a link to the actual study? It's all over the news this morning, that thimerosal is SAFE. If it doesn't contain info like what Dr. Pessah is looking at (http://www.ucdmc.ucdavis.edu/mindinstitute/events/toxicology_recorded_events.html....2/3 of the way through, it gets really interesting), I doubt many of the parents, that are really up on the issue, are going to buy the results anyway. This is not the first time they have claimed there is no connection.

If you really want some good info on the thimerosal debacle, read the book Evidence of Harm, by David Kirby. Then go to Put Children first.org, and read as much of the transcripts from Simpsonwood as possible. My understanding is that tics were one of the highest events of statistical significance.

 

http://www.putchildrenfirst.org/

 

http://www.putchildrenfirst.org/index2.html

 

Aside from mercury, I think this statement from Gen. Rescue sums it up pretty well

 

http://www.generationrescue.org/

 

The cause of this epidemic of NDs is extremely controversial. We believe the primary causes include the tripling of vaccines given to children in the last 15 years (mercury, aluminum and live viruses); maternal toxic load and prenatal vaccines; heavy metals like mercury in our air, water, and food; and the overuse of antibiotics.

 

 

http://www.generationrescue.org/vaccines.html

 

In 1983, the Centers for Disease Control recommended a total of 10 vaccines for our children. In 2007, the CDC recommends 36, an increase of 260%. (See a comparison here.) Yet, no studies have ever been done to compare neurological disorder ("ND") rates of unvaccinated children to vaccinated children.

 

Was there an epidemic of diseases in the 1980s that created a need for so many more vaccines? Why do many other countries recommend fewer vaccines for their children? Is it coincidence that the tripling in vaccines and an explosion in neurological disorders coincide?

 

 

In regards to the above "Study" references, I like the way this is explained, from a Put children first, page

 

If a tobacco company sourced, funded, guided, and wrote scientific studies to prove cigarettes don't cause lung cancer, not a single American would give the studies any credibility.

 

Yet, our own Centers for Disease Control (CDC), a government agency responsible for administering our National Immunization Program, has done the very same thing by sourcing, funding, guiding, and writing research to try and prove that vaccines, and a mercury preservative used in vaccines, have not fueled an epidemic of autism and other neurodevelopmental disorders in our nation's children.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

a

[kim]

follow up to above post......

 

David Kirby's remarks on "new study"

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-kirby/...s-_b_66007.html

 

It's perplexing that the CDC can report replicating a doubled risk for tics in boys, and an increased risk for speech disorders and attention and behavior problems in other kids, and still insist that this is all "very reassuring news."

 

thanks to a poster on mothering vax forum

[emma1]

We just went to our family doctor who informed us that, although flu vaccines are now recommended, his office would not be giving them out. We were referred to a group that is doing "first come first served" innoculations.

 

My concern, however, is that these places never have preservative-free vaccines. I am pretty sure the flu shot still has mercury in it.

 

What is everyone else doing -- are you getting your child the flu shot? Last year, before I was dealing with the tics, I was already concerned. This year, haven't a clue what to do.

 

Thanks,

 

Emma

[bmom]

I am not getting my children flu shots. I am still wondering what to do about yearly shots as well. Do other moms see if you can space them apart? Do extra vit. c? Any ideas? Chemar- did your boys receive shots? Kim- do you have your boys get their shots? Ideas-anyone????

[faith]

I absolutely would not tinker with the flu shot. My child's pediatrician has never mentioned it. That is optional, right?

As far as vaccines, well my son is now eight, and I am pretty much going to try and avoid whatever I can for future. I'm not sure what the next one is supposed to be, but I'm going to ask our DAN doc what to do, but if my son were to get worse soon after that, I would kill myself!.......

 

Kim, anything interesting on the Larry King interview? The one time I'm not having the tv on at those times and surfing channels......

 

Faith

[kim]

Faith,

 

I think the thing that's interesting about Jenny McCarthy (shes on the cover of this months People) is that she is being allowed to discuss this on TV at all. She has been able to express her concerns about vaccines on Ophra, The View, and Larry King . A Dr. that is treating her son, was on with her. He said he gave his son the MMR at 18 months, and he started regressing. He said his wife made the remark "you broke him, now you fix him." I'm so surprised that she has been able to express these concerns, when it has been so taboo in the past. What changed? Between NO ONE wanting to be the "cause" of a resurgence of a disease, and the TV stations being beholden to Pharma companies who advertise on their networks, it just hasn't be allowed.

 

Their message is not "anti vaccine," Jenny said her message is , that someone should be testing children before they receive so many vaccines at one time. She talks about the "full bucket theory," how clearing candida and the GFCF diet was essential in her sons recovery.

 

you can read the transcripts form Larry King interview at this site http://www.rescuepost.com/rescue_post/

 

I thought these were helpful

 

http://www.generationrescue.org/pdf/070626.pdf

shows what shots were being given in 1983 and what's on the schedule today

 

and this, about some of the people involved the new "safety study"

 

Dr. Thompson reports being a former employee of Merck; Dr. Marcy, receiving consulting fees from Merck, Sanofi Pasteur, GlaxoSmithKline, and MedImmune; Dr. Jackson, receiving grant support from Wyeth, Sanofi Pasteur, GlaxoSmithKline, and Novartis, lecture fees from Sanofi Pasteur, and consulting fees from Wyeth and Abbott and serving as a consultant to the FDA Vaccines and Related Biological Products Advisory Committee; Dr. Lieu, serving as a consultant to the CDC Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices; Dr. Black, receiving consulting fees from MedImmune, GlaxoSmithKline, Novartis, and Merck and grant support from MedImmune, GlaxoSmithKline, Aventis, Merck, and Novartis; and Dr. Davis receiving consulting fees from Merck and grant support from Merck and GlaxoSmithKline. No other potential conflict of interest relevant to this article was reported.

[kim]

bmom,

 

I'm so sympathetic to what you're going through with your kids and this decision, right now.

 

I hope I haven't discouraged others on the bd. from replying to your question. I would suspect that most (not all) are continuing to vaccinate. I hope they do respond. I would be the last one to be critical of anyone's decision in this regard. I am not anti vax either. I'm just sorry about my lack of knowledge, when I allowed my babies to be immunized. I'm for informed consent. That's all. I would never have become informed, if my boys wouldn't have had tics though, it's that simple.

 

If I were you, I would start with the CDC website. Download the pink book. It gives a lot of information about each disease, virus/whatever.

 

Then use the mothering vax forum. They have people over there that search these subjects daily. I find the threads with published studies to be most helpful.

 

There are some people who a highly educated in this whole topic. You will come to know who they are, in a short time. Use the archive threads at the top of the forum. Read any post you can find by Mom Tazuma/MT... aka Hillary Butler. She was one facinating resource. She hasn't been posting for months, but over a year ago (go back to older pages on the forum) probably close to two, she was SO helpful in educating me!

 

It will be another thing that takes up a tremendous amount of time. I know with small children, it's especially hard, but I really think you will be glad you did. It's just not something we can "undo" once it's done. Use the search thread over there to research the vaxes that your kids are due for now. As we say here, read, read, read.

 

We are only in noncompliance with one vax right now as far as required for shcool. It has been more than 10 years since my youngest son had a tetanus booster. To date he has received 5 doses of several combos of DTP/dtap. Only 3 were required for school, with a dose of TD if it's been more than 10 years from last DTap. I did not get it, and will not be doing so. The TD booster still has thimerosal and I have no desire to further vaccinate him for tetanus anyway.

 

The shot that is being recommended instead of the TD booster, is a newer vax. The theory with this shot is that, by inluding yet another dose of acellular pertussis, they will provide further protection for infants from pertussis. This is being pushed for adults too. If you get a cut, bee sting etc. it's more than likely what you will be given instead of the TD booster. It can be given every 5 years, as opposed to the 10 year recommendation for the tetanus booster. Interesting thing though, read the statement under the 2nd picture in this Ad

 

http://www.vaccineplace.com/index.cfm?FA=p...mp;P=HowS_pread

 

If you don't buy into using this combo vax, how and why, can they make me vax my child for tetanus for school attendance? It's not communicable. Can they require me to make him carry a bullet proof back pack too? Do I want the government telling me I have to inject certain things in my childs body to attend public schools?

 

These are just a few things to consider. You can't make a decision without some serious reseach, and every parent must decide for themselves. I hope I have just given you a little different perspective to keep in mind as you go!

 

 

You can also Google something like "vacine dangers," it will bring up a lot of sites with literally hundred of links within them. There are also several books you can read. If you have access to a liibrary I have read several times that "A Shot in the Dark" is a good one. I haven't read it.

 

If you need help finding info on something, please ask, and please don't focus solely on thimerosal.

[Becky G]

After our oldest had severe reactions to the DPT many years ago, we stopped vaccinating. Our other four had no vaccines. We have never regretted this decision. It all boils down to what risks you are most comfortable with and I am more comfortable with the risk of the possible illness than the possible damage from vaccines.

[kim]

from Faiths post on another thread

 

One thing I don't get, when referring to the amounts of thimerisol exposure -- does the different vaccines all contain the same amount or differ from one to the next. For instance, could one baby's vaccine for MMR contain a little bit more than another baby's? or is the ingredient make up exactly the same in all the batches?

 

Also, the part about one study where they excluded children with low birth weight struck a cord in me -- you think low birth weight could be one of the vulnerabilities in these kids, in terms to being more suseptable (sp) to neuro damage from the vacs? Anyone interested in another poll? I'm wondering if most of us have smaller babies , my son was 5 lb. 14 oz., kind of small and was three weeks early. (And my doctor did not do the circumcision in the days after he was born, we came back about six weeks later because he wanted him to have a little more weight on him).

 

I know we've already compared and some of us have said our kids are on the skinny/smaller side, but I'd be interested to know the birth weights of some of our kids (with tics).

 

I have to be brief here Faith, so I will try to point out a few things quickly.

 

Vaccines that contain "live virus/bacteria" NEVER contained thimerosal. These would include polio, MMR, varicella (chicken pox)

 

The vaccines that your are primarily going to be looking at are Hep B, Hib and DTP or DPaT. Also, you need to consider flu shots while pregnant and Rhogam.

 

As to your question about different amts. contained in individual doses, yes that can happen. Thimerosal was/is used to keep the multidose vials of vaccines, free of contaminents as the needle was inserted for withdrawl. If your child received a dose from a multidose vial, that had not been shaken well (equally distributing the mercury, it would be possible to get more (or less) than what is reported. To the best of my knowledge, you are more than likely going to find 25mcgs. in the multidose vials (in the times frames we have been discussing ) in Hib and 25 mcgs in DTP/DtaP. I believe the Hep B multidose contained 12.5.

 

It is a REQUIREMENT for the lot #,and manufacturer to be listed on the vax record. Mine are not all there. However, it does not appear to me, that there was a thimerosal free Hep B vax available when my sons got it. My oldest son got Hib and DTP exposing him to 50 mcgs in one appt. 3 times. He received the Hep B series later than my youngest son, who got the birth dose, and another 1 month later. My youngest got a combo DTP/Hib however, which reduced his exposure by 25 mcgs, but added 12.5 from the Hep B. Have I thoughly confused you yet?

 

The most accurate way to check all of this, is get a copy of vax. records and start researching. I can probably help save you a little time with some links to help.

[kim]

One more thing, I would not say anything, when requesting a copy. Just say that you need it for your own files, or for school or whatever.

 

You do not really want to go in having a fit about mercury poisioning! I can explain a little more about that later.

[kim]

I just wanted to add, that some parents have shared with me, that it is not a good idea to sound any "alarm bells" when requesting copies of medical files. Some have found that important information has been removed, prior to getting copies. This wouldn't pertain to a vax record, but it is your right, to request copies of the entire file, regarding your childs medical care. That is what I was referring to in the last post.

 

I tried to get my boys, from their former Pediatrician.

 

I told them we were swithing to a family practice physician.

 

They said they would sent it to the new Dr. and get this "most of them only want their immunization records anyway." I guess that is the only thing in their medical history that's really important????

 

I said, no, I would like the entire file. They said if I wanted to pick it up, instead of having them send it, it would be a $40.00 charge.

 

I asked, why?

 

She said, I might lose it, and then they would have to make more copies. Do you get the feeling, they really don't want us in those files?