Discipline question

[Lyentzer]

How do you all discipline when you know it’s not pandas behavior like being disrespectful or blatant not listening etc? My ds has extreme irritability and rages with pandas so when it’s a non pandas behavior and we discipline him it sets off a rage. After the rage he accepts the discipline but I’m trying to figure out how to balance the two....keep discipline in the house for non pandas behaviors and try to avoid rages too. Thanks

[kakrpa]

Totally understand this...my DS10 is nearly the same. Although I'm not sure he's PANDAS, but does show some signs of OCD. It's frustrating for sure.

[MountainMom]

Lyentzer, how old is your son? I struggle with this balance at times.

[MomWithOCDSon]

This is tough.  Even without PANDAs behavior, per se...say your kid is displaying big-time OCD rituals or compulsions that most therapists will counsel you not to accommodate...it can be hard to discipline with the necessary compassion.  I failed frequently when my DS was growing up, a fact he rubs in my face from time to time even now (he just turned 21).  I have a couple of suggestions that were helpful for us, if not always 100% successful.

Try to do what you can to separate the kid from the PANDAs or OCD behavior, and articulate that if you can.  Something along the lines of, "John, I know you know that it's not okay to hit your brother.  I'm sorry he messed up your row of Matchbox cars, and I know your OCD doesn't like that.  But we don't obey your OCD in this house; we obey the family rules, and that means no hitting for any reason."

In terms of the rages that come from trying to enact discipline, I think that's pretty common for many kids, and maybe PANDAs/PANs kids tend to overreact somewhat.  I might suggest a book called "The Explosive Child" by Ross Greene.  It has some great strategies and tools for working with these kids to bring them into the household rules process, help them feel invested in and rewarded by participating in the family and the boundaries set within your house without the bargaining, raised voices, pleading, maybe even bribery that we sometimes resort to in order to keep some peace in the house.  Many of us "old-timers" here on the forum have used this book to varying levels of success, but I've yet to hear anyone indicate that it failed on every level.

Good luck to you!

[Lyentzer]

Thanks. My son is 7.5. Before he got the acute onset ocd and depression from pandas he wasn’t always the easiest but did time out and wasn’t aggressive and irritable like he is now. We have always been consistent but now it’s a battle on everything if we allow it and it’s a rage that goes on and on where then he thinks Dad is hurting him when just trying to keep him contained so doesn’t hurt anyone. May try the book thanks

[MountainMom]

My son is the same age. I struggle with this, too. I did find the book "The Exlosive Child" that MomWithOCDSon mentions above to be helpful. It helped us to come up with strategies to help my son before we got to the meltdowns, made him feel more in control and also helped me to see which things were really important. It didn't solve everything of course, but it was helpful. Good luck!

[bws1565]

I am taking a fantastic course relating to this very question.  Although the course is not in English I think it is outlined in the book "Parenting without Power Struggles" available on Amazon.  Another book explaining this method is "Motivating Kids".  Also "Children - the Challenges"  All of these are based on the Alfred Adler method.

Basically, it explains how these explosive behaviors are a child's mistaken expression of love.  If you accept it this way, you will remain calm, and get over the behavior real quick.  It really works!

Edited March 19, 2018 by bws1565

[bobh]

On ‎3‎/‎18‎/‎2018 at 10:50 PM, bws1565 said:

If you accept it this way, you will remain calm, and get over the behavior real quick.  It really works!

What I like about that line above, is that it emphasizes what you directly control - your own reaction to the behavior.  A major problem for me was my own frustration.  I could regularly see that I was not patient enough.  But, if the OCD drives us nuts, it is even worse for the child, and he's just a child - without adult faculties.  So intellectually, I always have to tell myself "cut him some slack, it's not really him."  What I am talking about is not what behavior is allowed or not in the house, but about our reaction to them, in particular the severity of consequences for behavior that we impose.  We shouldn't treat each child identically, but rather according to their needs and abilities.

I don't draw a distinction between rages caused by PANS, and "behavior".  It's all behavior, I didn't think that I can truly separate the two as long as PANS remains.