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vaccines tdap (tetanus, pertussis, diptheria), menactra (bacterial mening), gardasil

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thanks to everyone who answered my previous thread on MMR and varicella vaccine busters. The best advice there, to my mind, is to check titers since these are buster vaccines and most kids may not need them.


Now a different question about different vaccines that are given at a different age. Our dd is 11 and PCP told us she'll need tdap (tetanus, pertussis, diptheria), menactra (bacterial mening), gardasil.

I am starting to do research on these and wanted to consult you all as well.


you give best advice -- thanks!

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The recommendation for the 11 year old tdap vaccine was added a few years ago b/c of recent outbreaks. We didn't do it for PANDAS dd (now 10th gr) b/c of her PANDAS. I also more recently didn't do it for my non-pandas (12 years old) dd.


1) I have concerns re the aluminum adjuvant and autoimmunity


2) the currently used acellular pertussis vaccine is ineffective...1-it has a short duration of immunity (a couple of years) http://www.ccjm.org/clinicaledge/vaccines-public-health/single-article/long-term-efficacy-rates-for-pertussis-following-tdap/a472a117beae537686fe00eec3c32429.html?utm_source=Clin_CCJM_clinicaledge_070415_final&utm_medium=email&utm_content=ClinicalEdge%3A+MenB+Vaccine+ 2-it doesn't prevent transmission of dz to others (you can still become colonized and spread dz, http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/26/health/study-finds-vaccinated-baboons-can-still-carry-whooping-cough.html?_r=0 + vax just prevents symptoms) 3-recent CDC study confirmed that most wild pertussis has mutated and the vaccine is ineffective vs these mutated (PRN neg) forms. In fact, if you are vaccinated, you are MORE likely to become infected (probably due to original antigenic sin)

More here http://thinkingmomsrevolution.com/an-open-letter-to-legislators-currently-considering-vaccine-legislation-from-tetyana-obukhanych-phd-in-immunology/

  1. The acellular pertussis (aP) vaccine (the final element of the DTaP combined vaccine), now in use in the USA, replaced the whole cell pertussis vaccine in the late 1990s, which was followed by an unprecedented resurgence of whooping cough. An experiment with deliberate pertussis infection in primates revealed that the aP vaccine is not capable of preventing colonization and transmission of B. pertussis (see appendix for the scientific study, Item #2). The FDA has issued a warning regarding this crucial finding.[1]
  2. Furthermore, the 2013 meeting of the Board of Scientific Counselors at the CDC revealed additional alarming data that pertussis variants (PRN-negative strains) currently circulating in the USA acquired a selective advantage to infect those who are up-to-date for their DTaP boosters (see appendix for the CDC document, Item #3), meaning that people who are up-to-date are more likely to be infected, and thus contagious, than people who are not vaccinated.


read page 6 with the heading Resurgence of Pertussis:


http://www.cdc.gov/m...OID_Minutes.pdf Note: I added the bolding.



"Resurgence of Pertussis. As reported at the May 2013 BSC meeting, the recent resurgence in pertussis cases has been associated with waning immunity over time in persons who received the acellular pertussis vaccine (which is administered as the pertussis component of DTaP vaccine). However, a recent study suggests another explanation for decreased vaccine effectiveness: an increase in Bordetella pertussis isolates that lack pertactin (PRN)--a key antigen component of the acellular pertussis vaccine. A study that screened B. pertussis strains isolated between 1935 and 2012 for gene insertions that prevent production of PRN found significant increases in PRN-deficient isolates throughout the United States.2 The earliest PRN-deficient strain was isolated in 1994; by 2012, the percentage of PRN-deficient isolates was more than 50%. 2Pawloski LC, Queenan AM, Cassiday PK, et al. Prevalence and molecular characterization of pertactin-deficient Bordetella pertussis in the United States. Clin Vaccine Immunol 2014;21(2):119-25.

To assess the clinical significance of these findings, CDC used an IgG anti-PRN ELISA and other assays (PCR amplification, sequencing, and Western blots) to characterize 752 B. pertussis strains isolated in 2012 from six Enhanced Pertussis Surveillance Sites3 and from epidemics in Washington and Vermont. Findings indicated that 85% of the isolates were PRN-deficient and vaccinated patients had significantly higher odds than unvaccinated patients of being infected with PRN-deficient strains. Moreover, when patients with up-to-date DTaP vaccinations were compared to unvaccinated patients, the odds of being infected with PRN-deficient strains increased, suggesting that PRN-bacteria may have a selective advantage in infecting DTaP-vaccinated persons. "



3) as far as Gardisil goes...NEVER NEVER NEVER

lots more on HPV and pertussis vax in this thread http://latitudes.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=23596&page=1


Maybe others can comment on bacterial meningitis...I see no reason to do it at age 11 however...if you decide to do it, do it closer to college.

Edited by eamom
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Our PCP says menactra will be mandatory soon. It truly is life threatening.......however, only 1000-1500 people nationwide get bacterial meningitis annually. Of those 15% will die....of those remaining, another 20% will have severe side effects. So 45-100 people out of 330 million.......I am not so sure I want to do it. Just like everything else.....educate your self and make a calculated risk/decision.


Gardasil........not a chance......kids.........grandkids.........EVER. Was told by DAN/Integrative Pedi treating pandas/pans......to NOT do it.


Tdap.........pushing them out as far as I can. If pressed, will press back on spacing or something where I can deal with another flare.

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I guess I can skip most of my comments on DTaP since that has been fully covered, lol. It doesn't last and is not particularly effective the pertussis part.


I think the meningococcal is required in my state but I could be wrong. Anyway, no, my son will not get it. He does not live in a dorm type environment. That makes him even less susceptible than worried dad listed. This vax started out for college students. Now they want to give it at 11 so they can make more money off kids not going to college, just my opinion.


HPV. Not a chance in I'll give this one to my son.


My son is 11. In my state, these are all given at age 12. My son will not be getting any of them. This mess we are in started after a flu mist vax.

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much already said more eloquently than I can put it...


I was up on this last year as it was an issue for us - I have my research in files, not my brain, but...unless the vacc has changed, it does not include vacc for the strain that caused the two college breakouts where I think one person died in each a few years ago. so, the 4 strains it does cover could potentially be troublesome (as anything could), but it is NOT even what was concerning in the US in the past few years.

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My son had his first bout with asthma a few weeks after his DTaP booster at age 6, so we won't do this one anymore. I can't prove a connection, but have always been suspicious. Also, we later discovered that he doesn't make any antibodies whatsoever in response to this vaccine (so what's the point?). I had many "discussions" with his ped about this vaccine and argued that 1) he doesn't respond to the Pertussis portion, 2) he can get a Tetanus booster when he actually needs one (as opposed to doing it every time he's supposed to get a Pertussis booster, and 3) Diptheria? there hasn't been one case of diphtheria in the U.S. in a number of years.


As for Gardisil, there have been many reports of terrible reactions, long-term autoimmune illnesses and death from this vaccine - almost 30,000 reports as of the end of 2013 according to the National Vaccine Information Center, including 140 deaths.





Edited by mama2alex
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DS is getting a tetanus booster next week in preparation for college (his last one was more than 12 years ago), and as his school required neither the meningitis nor the HPV vaccines, we don't have to deal with those in terms of either getting or fighting for exemptions (thank goodness).


While I'm on the fence about the meningitis one myself, I will never, ever, ever consent to Gardisil for DS, and since he's 18 now and thus expected to speak for himself on topics such as this, I've schooled him pretty thoroughly in declining anything other than what he and I have thoroughly discussed and jointly approved/decided. And if we DO, ultimately, decide on the meningitis vaccine, he will get that one on a separate occasion, well spaced out from any other innoculations.

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It sounds like Nancy has done her homework on vaccines (thoroughly discussed) but for any one who isn't up on tetanus, I'm going to leave some info here.


The thing that I found astounding when I first started researching tetanus was how rare it actually was.

underlining mine

In 1947 through 1949, before widespread use of the vaccine, an average of 580 cases of tetanus and an average of 472 deaths from tetanus were reported


I took that from a different site, but I believe that same figure is stated on the CDC website.


Nancy, will you let us know if they try to give your son the Tdap? I'm strongly suspecting that they will. If he insists on the Td only and they stock it, be aware that at least one of the two vaccines listed here




shows that it contains trace thimerosal AND an aluminum adjuvant. Maybe some one else can read the other and point out differences?


Robert F Kennedy Jr. has been very outspoken during the state hearings pushing for vax/eduction about the toxicity of trace thimerosal combined with alum.


If you really want an education on tetanus and wound care, I highly recommend Hilary Butlers blog here



Quote on # of cases from here



CDC on tetanus


Kennedy (Trace Amounts) here


View (for fee) here

Edited by kim
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I'm in full agreement with worrieddadnmom about the swift and life threatening effects of meningococcal disease.


I have no problem speaking out against taking choice out of the equation, the lunacy of birth dose of hep b rec for all infants, what I feel is a gross misrepresentation of what is occurring with pertussis in most of the media. Guess I could go on and on but....

this thread is not about those subjects and I'm very mindful of the fact that we have children/people with known or suspected immune deficiencies here.


On Neisseria meningitidis, I think we really have to educate our kids not to swap spit with other people when avoidable. Smoking, drinking, eating, kissing (at least warn them, :wub: ). If they hear of a student with meningitidis, they need to know that vaccine or no vaccine, they need to take it seriously.


There are warnings in many places about people with certain medical conditions such as not having a spleen or having a complement component deficiency being more at risk. However, the vaccine may be less effective for these people too.


Review of complement deficiencies




The carriage rate concerned me here ((25%) and I think it's something to be aware of. I have no idea how dangerous or infective nongroupable N. meningitidis (18%). A carrier can infect others with no symptoms themselves, which I'm sure most of you are aware.


It seems there are many types within the B strain. The vax insert for one on the B vaccines warns that the effectiveness against diverse serogroup B strains has not been confirmed. I feel vaccines can create a false sense of security when parents and students are unaware.


This is just food for thought. I'm only learning much of this myself.


on one outbreak


Serogroup B Meningococcal Disease Outbreak and Carriage Evaluation at a College — Rhode Island, 2015




Of 717 participants in the carriage evaluation, 470 (66%) were female, 655 (91%) lived on campus, and 701 (98%) had received the first MenB-FHbp vaccine dose. Preliminary data indicate that 176 (25%) were carriers of N. meningitidis. Among 31 (4%) participants with serogroup B carriage, none carried the outbreak strain. Eight (1%) participants carried serogroup C, one (<1%) carried serogroup X, four (1%) carried serogroup Y, and 132 (18%) carried nongroupable N. meningitidis. Males (PR = 1.5, CI = 1.2–2.0), smokers (PR = 1.5, CI = 1.1–2.0), and persons who reported visiting bars or nightclubs or attending parties one or more times per week (PR = 2.7, CI = 1.8–4.2) had increased carriage prevalences, whereas recent antibiotic use was associated with decreased carriage (PR = 0.4, CI = 0.2–0.7).

The baseline carriage prevalence of N. meningitidis among Providence College students is comparable to prevalences of up to 34% previously observed among university students in the United Kingdom (8) but is higher than previous U.S. estimates of 1%–8% among the general population (9,10). No carriage of the outbreak strain was detected.





Edited by kim
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My DS15 had his first HPV vaccination last fall. A few days later he was mysteriously sick for a week. He started with a fever and then he was just achy for the next 5-6 days. I just thought he had a flu bug. On March 4th this spring he had his 2nd HPV vaccine. Then on March 7th he started his very sudden onset of symptoms that was the beginning of the nightmare of PANS we have been living with ever since. There is no doubt in my mind that the HPV shot played a major role in my son's illness. He may have had an infection already starting but the shot created the perfect storm and irritated his immune system to the point of malfunction. Everyone parent I know who has a child I tell them NO HPV!!!

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  • 2 weeks later...

Just following up . . .


DS18 had Tdap booster exactly one week ago today; it was his first tetanus booster in nearly 14 years.


It may have been totally unrelated, and to be fair, we traveled on vacation which has its own stressors for many, myself included, but DS did report some increased anxiety along about 3-4 days following the vaccination. We responded with some Pepcid to lower his histamine levels, and that seemed to do the trick.


Here we are a week out, home from vacation, and no signs of any long-lasting ill effects.

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Glad to hear he's doing ok MomWithOCDSon. This is such a difficult decision to make.


A great book for learning more about vaccines and making an informed decision is "What Your Doctor May NOT Tell You About Children's Vaccinations" by Dr. Stephanie Cave. It is a fair and balanced look at the vaccines, the diseases, the history, public health policy, etc - it is not anti-vaccine.

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