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increase in sudden urinary accidents w/herbs (lyme/bart)

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my son had sudden urinary accidents back in the fall of 2013 before dx and treatment started for lyme (and bart.). They went away with his antibiotic treatment. Then, at about 90%+ symptom free we switched to herbs (2 drops 2x/day) this past fall and the accidents started again.
Winter and spring I backed way down on the herbs (other herxing reasons).
We upped the herbs (still not high dose) to 1-2 drops 2x/day since April, and now, especially the past month, the accidents are back. He will just suddenly pee. He cannot feel it coming. He'll be standing, or in mid-step and...woosh, pee just comes out. He's 5, and potty trained for over 2 years. I definitely see them happening in relationship to the herbs.

Today he had 3 of these accidents. Usually it's more like 4 a week, with only 1 on any given day, since the increase in the herbs.
When searching for ideas, I read someone say regarding a similar situation, that perhaps it was miscommunication, basal ganglia, etc. or something.
From what I read lyme and bart. can affect the bladder and cause miscommunication with bladder signals.
I'll bring it up to his llmd, but am wondering if anyone has had similar experiences? Or ideas of how to help if you have had this symptom. Maybe I'm still not doing enough to detox. I've been meaning to order either Pinella, Parsley, Burber or glutathione, but haven't yet.

(oh, I did read about if maybe a UTI, but he had the accidents prior to treatment, and in the fall with herbs and now with the herbs again. I would think not a UTI, especially when lyme and bart are known to cause bladder issues anyway. Also, there's not an urgency to go. In fact, just the opposite. He doesn't feel the need to when it happens. Most of the time he goes normally without problems still, but even a little of this is too much.)
and one more note, he's on abx right now, b/c he had a rash that was suspicious of being an EM rash, so llmd put him on amoxicillin last weekend.)

Edited by stacestar
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I do not have an answer but the urge to pee more frequently was one of the major symptoms my daughter had when she got PANDAS. She would go over and over and over and over again. IT was exhausting. She has been on antibiotics for almost 5 months and is symptom free. So I guess I have no advice but we did rule out a UTI just to make sure that wasn't the problem. I need to understand more about the detox people are mentioning.

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Agree (above) herbs can cause strange sensations. I have also at times thought there might be parasite activity -- as if parasites could be causing mischief not sure how else to explain it.


Had similar issue w DS at different times.


We found that the Boiron Homeopathic remedy Causticum 30C helped with pee accidents. The way we were told to use it was to take 5 pellets every other day and if that didn't work to call the homeopath -- we did not need to call about that again b c it worked.

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My son's accidents started maybe six months after potty training. At first, we thought they were just due to the chronic constipation (which is very commonly the case). Then, we thought they were due to his tethered spinal cord (which can be the case); he had surgery to release the tether around 5 y.o., which helped. We didn't know about PANS/PANDAS way back then. What helps my son now, years later:


magnesium citrate (this definitely helps beyond the constipation issue, which it also helps)


D-mannose (I don't know whether there is a mechanism beyond the obvious e-coli binding but I suspect there might be)


Both are available in powder form. Mix in water. For the mag, add sugar to make "lemonade" (I usually added about twice as much sugar as mag, so usually about a quarter tsp of mag with a half tsp sugar; FWIW I greatly preferred the Now brand and do not like the Calm). The mannose is sweet and flavorless, can be added to any liquid easily.


One would think I'd have figured this out by now, but the urinary issues are still mysterious to me.

Edited by jan251
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thank you guys for your replies and ideas!



that is wonderful your daughter is symptom free! My son is getting there, and normally I'm pretty positive about the situation, but this accident thing is getting to me, for his sake. I do believe it will eventually stop, just have to figure it out. We have an llmd appt. soon and I'll be mentioning it to her too for ideas.



I've wondered too about if there's particular herb that is messing with the bladder somehow. Then I think about how, well, this was a symptom before any treatment, and so tend to think it's more the herbs messing with the lyme/bart.


On antibiotics it didn't happen, at least not like lately, but I'm not wanting to do the antibiotics for lyme or bart again (although they helped and I'm glad he was on them for that time). I've thought, maybe if I scale them down even more? or another idea is to switch protocols? Like to do Buhner instead of Beyond Balance. Beyond Balance uses a combination of herbs in the same drops, and it uses about 4-5 herbs for lyme and then for bart. too.

I've thought maybe if he was on less herbs and given one at a time, maybe that would help? but I'm not sure. I may try that eventually.


and emst,
I've wondered about parasites too. I keep reading that most people with lyme often have issues with parasites; I almost don't even know why I suspect parasites with this, but I kind of do. We're having him tested soon, although I've heard the testing is not very good. Even if negative, I think I want to do at least an herbal parasite tx at some point.

thank you for the info on the Boiron homeopathy too, I will look into that. The only homeopathy I've ever given him was this past spring, when his ear was hurting (while he had the flu) and I gave a homeopathic ear drop. It worked! very well in fact, stopping the pain. Makes me want to try the bladder one, knowing he had success with another homeopathic remedy. thank you.



thank you for the magnesium advice and D-mannose. I've never heard of the latter one, will look it up. Now that you mention magnesium I remember I read something about that helping this issue somewhere else. That one seems easy enough to try too. I have some mag powder here already. It's the Natural Calm. The health food store lady said it's safe for a child his age, so I think I'll give that a try starting tomorrow.

And, I agree, the urinary issues are mysterious. I believe it's probably not just one thing, but maybe mostly one thing that tips the scales, and if I can help in that main way, or in several other ways, than hopefully this can stop sooner than later.


Thank you also you guys for just sharing at all, b/c to know that my little guy isn't the only this happens to is reassuring. I don't want anyone to go through it of course, but in the way that knowing you're not alone helps, that's what I mean.

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