Faith and others

[Cum Passus]

Hi Faith and anyone else who give their children B12,

 

Faith, I remember you said you give your son B12. Could you tell me how much you give him? My son's chart has him down for 50mcg. His multi has 10mcg and B12 is plentiful in raw milk.(don't know how much is plentiful though) I'm trying to get an idea on how much would be good for him. He is borderline to being adequiate in B12. (on his chart)

 

Also having a hard a time finding low doses of B12.

 

Thanks for your help,

C.P.

[faith]

Hi C.P.

Just to clarify, my son takes B12 shots in the form of methylcobalamin, which I believe is a little different from regular B12 (cobalamin). He gets this because a certain test included in his blood workup by the DAN doctor showed he has an impaired ability to methylate (or convert) the B12 in his body. So by giving Methyl cobalamin, this is the next step in the process, so its like bypassing the problem so he may utilize the B12 properly. The vial says 25 mg. and get about three shots out of it, so I'm guessing the dose is 1mg. per shot? I could find out for sure, and let you know.

 

But oral may be a different story. And I think that B12 is not totally absorbed so sublingual may be a better bet. I would search that a little and see what you come up with. On that site, neurotalk, there is a poster called "Rose" who seems to know alot about B12 and even has a website about it. Maybe you could poke around there.

 

Could I ask what other supplements you have started since getting these test results, if any. How is your son doing? Still pretty good, I hope?

 

Faith

[Guest]

Hi C.P.

 

I would find out from the doctor what form he wants your son to be on if not known already--Methylcobalamin or cobalamin. If you choose to go with sublingual, watch out for added sugars, colors, and flavors.

 

Carolyn

[Cum Passus]

Thanks Faith and Carolyn,

 

The test says it should be cobalamin, I had a hard time finding it, but got some by Solgar 500mg.

 

I think the Dr was thinking this was a key supp because of the nervous system support. I'm not sure if he will benefit from high doses because he does not have motor tics most of the time.

 

Carolyn do you take B12? If yes how has it helped you?

 

Is cobalamin good? I'm a little confused on what I have read about B12. It seems a person can take high doses and not really get that much B12 in their system. Oh and what about coenzyme B12?

 

Faith, He is still doing very well. Was concerned he would tic more after the skating accident (lumbar strain) and x-rays. But nothing, no change, still doing well. Came home tonight after B-Ball practice with a hugh bruse and knot on his hand, was hit by the pitcher. So I'm a little better about worring about pain increasing his tics.

 

Have B12, vit C, CoQ10, Arginine, and Carnitine left to get into him. Hopefully without any problems.

 

Still thinking about the krill oil.

 

Going very slow as he has state testing coming up, and I don't want to rock the boat.

C.P.

[Guest]

C.P.,

 

Just remember that for some b12 can cause an increase of tics. Yes, I take b12 shots in the Methylcobalamin form. The only thing I've noticed the b12 helping me with is having regular stools. Hopefully it's helping behind the scenes in the way that Faith explained.

 

I think cobalamin is okay as long as your son can convert the b12 into the active form. If this is a problem for your son, then methyl would likely be better. If your son eats foods that have plenty of b12 in it, I would consider trying the methyl form instead.

 

Coenzyme B12 is just the two active forms of B12. These are methylcobalamin and adenosylcobalamin.

 

Carolyn

[Cum Passus]

HUMMM???

 

Carolyn, A couple of questions. So would he have had to have a special blood test to tell if he did not convert B12? Something different then the SpectraCell Lab blood work?

 

She only gave me the different options, (supps, shots, a patch) she did not say anything about why it was low.

 

He is really close to the B12 being adequate, in fact about 1/4 of the marker is in the adequate range.

 

Does that sound like he is not having a problem converting?

 

I will hold off on the B12 and give the raw milk more time as a dietary change and repletion of the B12. What is your opinion?

 

Last question, would the B6 or mag or some other vitamin help with him absorbing B12?

 

Thank you for the warning about B12 and increase in tics, and thanks for answering my questions.

 

 

 

Faith could you share how low was your son's B12 was/is so I could get an idea of what I'm thinking about.Thanks so much,

 

C.P.

[Guest]

C.P.

 

There's no way to check if an individual's low in the methyl b12 form. I'm not aware of a test that shows whether or not an individual converts b12 or not, so hopefully Faith can share more about that. Dr. Neubrander, who is one of the top doctors for children with Autism and methyl-b12 shots, tests whether a child needs methyl b12 shots by trial and error. He has the children try the methyl-b12 shots without changing anything else for a certain amount of weeks. Then he has parents fill out a form to evaluate whether methyl-b12 shots are right for that child.

 

I've done the SpectraCell test twice. Neither times was I low on b12. I was on the low end of the reference range. Many kids will test high on b12 and still be responders to methyl b12 shots.

 

I think giving the b12 is worth a try as it may really help your son, you never know. However, I personally would hold off until his state testing is over. That will give you some time to make sure you have the right dose and decide which form of b12 to use.

 

I'm not for sure about the absorption question.

 

Carolyn

[faith]

My son actually showed a very high (out of range) level of B12 and folate. This was just one thing the DAN doctor ordered on the blood chemistry workup. When they see this, they have a test which tests for reduced MTHFR (methylhydrofolate reductase) activity. It is apparently a gene mutation. It means that the methylation of the B12 in his body is impaired and the B12 just sits and doesn't convert to what its supposed to.

 

I don't think just anyone does these tests. It seems to be something special by DAN doctors. Apparently on research they find that a good percentage of autistics have this particular problem with the MTHFR gene and so they get the methyl B12 that Carolyn is describing. Its a little complicated but you could read further on it. I'm not sure you need to worry on that aspect of it, I would just supplement the amount recommended and maybe use the oral or sublingual. B12 is a weird one, I believe folic acid should be taken with it since they seem to work together. That is what we do. (5 mg.) (Amount that high is prescription) I think I've seen a B12 vit that included folic acid and B6 with it. I think it was a Trader Joe's brand.

 

If he's doing okay right now, I wouldn't rock that boat either. Did you look at that site I mentioned? Just click on the poster called "rose" on the neurotalk forum and she has a link to her B12 site. I would post the link, but I just tried to and lost my whole reply post and had to type it all over again, so I'm not taking that chance again!

 

Faith

[kim]

hi faith and cp,

 

Here are the links Faith was talking about. The first one is a good B12 thread on Neuro talk, the 2nd is Rose's B12 site. Faith, I hate it, when you lose a whole post like that! BTW your tap, tap, tap, info on the other thread, cracked me up!

 

http://neurotalk.psychcentral.com/showthread.php?t=11980

 

http://roseannster.googlepages.com/home

[Cum Passus]

Thanks guys you all are most helpful.

 

I guess my problem is he is so healthy (besides the bumps and bruses) I have such a hard time putting supps into a body that looks and acts like it does not need any. (you know reading what some supps are for, thinking , he can't have this or that, he looks to healthy)

 

Thanks for the advice C. and F. I will hold off (but will try the B12) until after tests.

 

C.P.