Another school refusal issue

[Hayley]

I started writing this in response to the other post about school refusal, but realized I might be hijacking it so figured I'd start another thread...

 

I'm interested to know with people dealing with school refusal: at what stage in your child's recovery did you start really pushing hard. My DD7 has made tremendous strides since having IVIG last month and in most ways is really back to her old self. Three outstanding issues are: difficulty falling asleep when anyone but me puts her to bed; still refusing to do extra curricular activities that she used to love; and resisting school on Tuesdays when she is having major anxiety around Art (of all things!) which she says is just too hard (the art teacher, according to my older daughter is very rigid and strict)!

 

She has overcome several of her VERY MAJOR ocd/sensory issues so we are trying to focus on those gains over what she's NOT doing. The sleep thing we are forcing more and the extra curricular stuff I don't feel the need to push right now, hoping it will come in time, but the Art thing is an issue. It's the last activity of the day so twice I have agreed to pick her up early if she went to school with no fuss. The first time it was becuase I thought it was just an isolated issue and I'd hoped she'd be fine the next week. This week, she didn't share the anxiety until JUST as we were walking out the door and I had to be at my son's school for an event so I didn't have time to argue which meant to either relent or throw off the schedule of everyone in my household! The school is all in support of her missing school to preserve the rest of the week, but I know I'm going to have to put a stop to this and just can't figure out when or how! She used to have a thing about PE, but that resolved with the help of our CBT/rewards chart. Art is on the table as something for which she can "earn" rewards, but she's not yet taking the bait. So do I let her work through other challenges and get to this when she's comfortable or force it?

[pr40]

I don't see the point in forcing our children to do anything that they cannot. They are PANDAS kids and they have certain limitations. When they don't have PANDAS issues, which is only sporadically, they are fine with most tasks, responsibilities, and so on. So, in my mind, your DD7 is still in a flareup, milder than it was, but an exacerbation nevertheless.

Perhaps talking to the Art teacher is the most efficient option. Good luck

[michiganpandas]

I know first hand with pandas it is near impossible to force anything when they are fearful...but, I always try to remember what they taught with the erp...if you start giving up on one thing, then it will make it easier to give up on more. (now with that said, we have given up on some things to make life easier...but, I never let her know that it's due to the pandas/ocd)...my daughter (who used to LOVE art also became fearful of it) Mine is scared because her ocd makes her think she is swallowing the the paint, glue, chemicals, etc. in the art room...basically the stronger smells make her also think she may have swallowed something poisionous. She has the nicest art teacher, but he HAS to explain things like "make sure you wash your hands if that gets on you...or it's dangerous to swallow this, etc)....so any little comment in class also scares her.

 

I considered pulling her from it and school was okay with it....but, we gave it our best shot and so far she is doing okay with it. What I did to help was I brought glue bottles and paint home from the class...we touched them had them around us, etc....not constantly, but a few times a day and called it our exposure time.

 

I also took her to the classroom after school and we sat in the room..also had her to eat a snack in the room...on a different day after school I had her walk in the class by herself and sit in there by herself for 5 minutes and draw.

[dcmom]

Hi Hayley-

 

I agree with pr40 that it never seems effective to force my kids to do anything. However, I do not think our kids have limitations. My kids tend to have remissions and flare ups. We try to keep age appropriate expectations always. We expect them to do anything a "normal" child can do. Sometimes, during a flare, this may not be possible- but we try to be clear that they may be accommodated temporarily while working on getting back to meeting their expectations. Of course, this is coupled with aggressive medical intervention that helps to limit the length of a flare up.

 

Congrats on your daughter doing so well! You should certainly praise and celebrate her for that! I would also be clear with her that she will not be all the way there until she is meeting age appropriate expectations: which include full attendance at school, and bedtime routines. If you have a good psych- they would be helpful here. I would press her for the exact issues with art. If she cannot tell you, maybe she can write it down. Tell her you will work with her to figure out a way to make it work. There may be some ocd issues that need erp- or it may just be the least comfortable class for her, and you might need to give her strategies to deal. Finding out exactly what the fear/ issue is would be important. Remind her how hard school was, and how she is doing so great- and tell her that art WILL be the same. It will be hard at first, but if she braves it, it will get better, and then she will be in full attendance and how awesome would that be? Tell her it has to be dealt with sooner or later, so why not get it behind her now.

 

As far as bedtime, we use melatonin during flares which REALLY helps them relax. Try giving it to her 30 minutes before you want to leave her in bed.

 

As far as extra curriculars, this has been a huge issue for my older dd. She quit ballet and piano, seperately, each during a flare due to ocd. We did work her back into them, and pushed her to participate for a while, but sadly she did lose her LOVE for these activities. It was sad for me, but I got over it, and since she has been doing well, she has tried several new activities which I am happy about. I do think these could be shelved until school is under control- but for her own self esteem it would probably be good if she participated in the activity for some time- to prove to herself she can do it. Alternatively, maybe you could let her pick a different activity.

 

It sounds like your daughter is almost there- which is great!

[Hayley]

Thanks, all, for these good suggestions.

 

DCMom, with art I think it's part of a "just right" type thing. It's a self-doubt that her drawing is good enough. We've had some of this with writing (which is improving each week) but only in her homework. At school and for pleasure she writes prolifically (and draws too), but certain assignments she gets really stuck on becuase she says they are too hard. Sometimes she also says that she is worried she won't finish school work on time though her teacher assures me that she is totally on track and often finishes things early so I think it's a confidence thing, though maybe some brain fog is playing a part. From how DD has articulated the art issue, I think that having expectations around how she is supposed to do art - something that for her is generally a free and fun thing -- is just really overwhelming. The example of something that is "hard" she was able to give me was an assignment where they had to draw fireworks "one big, one medium and one little." This is so obviously within her abilities, but for whatever reason she is stuck on it. I suggested as a start that we get some class assignments so she can do the work at home, but she was no less intimidated. It's the work, not the environment.... Re: extra curriculars, like you described I think I'm more upset about it than she is. All the activities she used to do in classes she does on her own still (and other parents, kids, teachers are constantly telling her she has natural abilities and she should consider classes!). She's very social and her friends are always trying to get her to take classes with her too so I'm hoping that eventually something will click!

[Hopeny]

I am glad your daughter is recovering. It is interesting because we have some similar issues at school, centered around the mean music teacher. (who btw I spoke to DD's regular teacher about and it was confirmed that the music teacher is indeed mean!) DD is not refusing to go so i just validate her complaints and that seems to work for now.

 

I agree that you should consider trying to speak to the art teacher and ask her to quietly offer some modifications that your DD can manage. Since she is not being called "mean" but strict and that its hard, it seems like something that could be managed. In most of the cases where I have gone to talk to the teacher etc it has had a positive outcome. In fact, sometimes they have ideas that I would not have thought of. Art can be very therapeutic so it would be good if there was a way for her to even enjoy it.

 

 

Since we have had lots of improvements i too am trying to set some limits for the sake of all of us, it's always hard to know the right thing to do. I worry about what toll this has taken on my 3 yo. I do try to keep a minimum level of activity and not overload even though its tempting because we've had improvement.

 

Sounds like the tide has turned for your DD and I wish continued steps in that direction.

[MomWithOCDSon]

Thanks, all, for these good suggestions.

 

DCMom, with art I think it's part of a "just right" type thing. It's a self-doubt that her drawing is good enough. We've had some of this with writing (which is improving each week) but only in her homework. At school and for pleasure she writes prolifically (and draws too), but certain assignments she gets really stuck on becuase she says they are too hard. Sometimes she also says that she is worried she won't finish school work on time though her teacher assures me that she is totally on track and often finishes things early so I think it's a confidence thing, though maybe some brain fog is playing a part. From how DD has articulated the art issue, I think that having expectations around how she is supposed to do art - something that for her is generally a free and fun thing -- is just really overwhelming. The example of something that is "hard" she was able to give me was an assignment where they had to draw fireworks "one big, one medium and one little." This is so obviously within her abilities, but for whatever reason she is stuck on it. I suggested as a start that we get some class assignments so she can do the work at home, but she was no less intimidated. It's the work, not the environment.... Re: extra curriculars, like you described I think I'm more upset about it than she is. All the activities she used to do in classes she does on her own still (and other parents, kids, teachers are constantly telling her she has natural abilities and she should consider classes!). She's very social and her friends are always trying to get her to take classes with her too so I'm hoping that eventually something will click!

 

Hayley --

 

My DS hated art class also, and I think it was "just right" and/or perfectionism OCD with him, as well. Particularly during PANDAS exacerbations, his small motor skills (handwriting, drawing, scissors) are one of the first things to "go," and then just the activity itself can be excruciating, never mind the fact that he finds the end-product sorely lacking as compared to some of his peers' work or the piece the teacher would present as an "example" or "inspiration."

 

I think letting art class attendance go might, unfortunately, only support her fears; OCD has a way of turning support around and using it as validation of the fear. She's right to feel anxious about art class because she isn't good enough at it, and your letting her skip the class says that you feel the same. You know that's not the message you intend to convey, and somewhere in her rational mind, your DD knows that, too. But if the OCD's volume is turned up in this particular corner, she doesn't hear that rational mind all that well right now.

 

I'd work with a therapist for some specific ERP exercises to help her better negotiate the tasks she's asked to undertake in art class. I'd also have a talk with the teacher to investigate the dynamic between her and your DD and also get a better feel yourself for how this teacher works and communicates with her class. If she, as your older DD suggests, is indeed strict and rigid, you may need to help advocate for a greater measure of flexibility toward your DD, at least for the short-term, while you work on teaching her how to handle art class in general, and this teacher more specifically. Unfortunately, for any kid, it's sort of a rude awakening when they hit that first teacher who's lacking the warmth, sense of humor, etc. that they may have come to expect from their earlier grade experiences. But as we told our DS, teachers come in all shapes and colors, just like people, and sometimes you just have to learn how to handle yourself as best you can in the face of someone who doesn't appear to "get" you or maybe even care about you and/or your progress in the class. Stinks to have to explain cynicism to a second grader, doesn't it? In our case, it was also second grade and it was a poor PE teacher. But I'm betting you've been through some of that with your older DD, as well.

 

Another sort of adjunct idea would be to check out some art history books in the library . . . the kind that have lots of pictures of art throughout the ages and, in particular, go into the modern art periods. We sat down with DS and showed him this vast array of very famous and divergent art . . . from Renoir to Pollack to Warhol . . . and let him talk about which pieces he liked and which ones he didn't, which ones he thought looked like they were done by someone who was "good at" art, and which ones looked like maybe they gave their dog a paintbrush and told him to have at it! It created an opportunity for us to talk about the subjectiveness of art, to crack jokes and laugh at some of what we found, and to plant the seed that how what he may think is "better" because it looks more like the teacher's example wouldn't necessarily be seen as "better" by others . . . that there's a great deal of individuality and creativity in making art. It seemed to help him get over the "perfectionism" hump a bit.

[dcmom]

Ahhh- perfectionism. My older daughter has that in spades- sometimes working to her advantage (she is a straight A honor student, teachers love her) and sometimes it does not (agonizes over less than perfect test scores and doing things the perfect way). For her this is a personality trait, always here, but somewhat mild- but it morphs into ocd during flare ups.

 

In my experience, most of our teachers have been lovely and supportive, especially once spoken to by me- however, the teacher being kinder, gentler, supportive etc has not really changed my kids fears or reactions. I think that is the nature of ocd.

 

So- what is your dd experiencing? Well maybe tough art teacher, who might give many students pause (yikes- she is not going to think this is good enough)- but most kids get over it- they say "oh well" to themselves, do the best they can, move on and forget about it once the bells ring. For kids like yours, mine and Nancy's- this thought that the art teacher is strict, she is not going to like my work, my work is not good enough, my work is not perfect, is like a seed planted. They do not forget about it, they worry about it, they obsess on it, they eventually try their best to avoid the situation. All of these responses nurture this seed, and the ocd grows into a large unmanageable plant.

 

Since your dd has overcome most of her ocd- this should not be too hard, if you can get a really strong erp therapist on board. I assume the answer is doing lots of art work at home- and purposely messing up. Getting the art teacher in on the therapy, and having her go to art and purposely do sub standard work. Once she does these things several times- it will get easier- she will see she can do junky art work, show it to the teacher, and live. Eventually she may start doing art work happily again- but this is really about getting over the perfectionism and maybe the fear of others reactions to her not being perfect.

 

I think you had a good idea of art at home. I think at home you should re enact exactly what she is afraid of. Give her an assignment of artwork- she needs to do it and purposely mess up. Continue this daily, until it is easy. Then maybe have her do it at home, but not only show to you, show to someone else (father, grandparent, etc). When this is easy, maybe go do this in the art room after school. Every day. When that is easy, maybe a teacher (she likes) could meet in the art room after school and have her do an art assignment (but mess it up). Work up to doing with the art teacher after school, then hopefully in class. I would think this should be able to be accomplished with a good therapist in 3 weeks max- if she is rather healthy pandas wise.

 

I think I would care less if she "messed up" her art assignments all year- just getting her in there and working would be the goal at this point.

[smartyjones]

I'm interested to know with people dealing with school refusal: at what stage in your child's recovery did you start really pushing hard. My DD7 has made tremendous strides since having IVIG last month and in most ways is really back to her old self.

 

She has overcome several of her VERY MAJOR ocd/sensory issues so we are trying to focus on those gains over what she's NOT doing. The sleep thing we are forcing more and the extra curricular stuff I don't feel the need to push right now, hoping it will come in time, but the Art thing is an issue.

 

but I know I'm going to have to put a stop to this and just can't figure out when or how! She used to have a thing about PE, but that resolved with the help of our CBT/rewards chart. Art is on the table as something for which she can "earn" rewards, but she's not yet taking the bait. So do I let her work through other challenges and get to this when she's comfortable or force it?

 

my ds8 is a 'give an inch, take a foot' kind of kid anyway. i always say OCD and anxiety are 'give an inch, take 10 miles' type of disorders. so, yes, it's such a hard, fine line to determine when they are healthy enough to handle something that needs to be conquered and when it's medically too tough. in my opinion, for your dd, the fact that she has made great strides and that there was a similar thing about PE, tells me it's a kind of thing that is/will morph and might be best to work on conquering rather than waiting for it to resolve. but of course, i'd say follow your gut feeling on that.

 

i usually post about ds8, diagnosed pandas and major school phobia issues. i also have ds10, not diagnosed pandas but has it - just not to severe level to be diagnosed. has had exacerbations but mostly has social anxiety issues. is quite linear and literal, so creative art is not his thing. last art project was to take 4 pieces of paper that had pre-drawn squiggles and create something with them. he did a fabulous drawing, putting them together and elaborating to create a stunning rollercoaster. next project, self portrait. ds's forte is not self expression - oral, written and certainly not artistic. so, he went into avoid mode, "i can't draw." the teacher, of course, did not accept that b/c he had just done a great project. he was spiralling with this and teacher not bending or really 'getting' where he was coming from. of course, art is on monday - so sunday night, upset and not wanting to go to school.

 

we did a 6-step problem solving model. 1 - define problem; 2- define goal; 3- list all possible solutions; 4-pick one solution to try FIRST; 5 - do that solution; 6 - - evaluate solution.

 

problem was 'i can't draw and hate art'. his goal was to make it through art w/o getting in trouble. solution he picked was to write teacher a note describing situation. he needed some help to make this a positive note but it came out beautifully. he expressed he doesn't like to draw and thinks he's not good at it but does like art history and mosaics and asked for her help in the things he finds difficult.

 

she then discussed with him that her idea would be to take a picture of him and he could draw from that. he was happy about this. we're now in step 6 b/c this past monday when she was supposed to do that, she had forgotten and i think it was an unproductive art class for him. but in the morning that monday, he did not have school resistance.

 

we often use this model to get through problems. for ds8 - he was 7 when we started. we drew it out like an 'at bat' at baseball.(i must say -- it's actually beautiful) at first, his only responsiblity was to 'stay at the plate' - pre step 1 and we would work through it with/for him. he now is pretty good at the whole process. it's very interesting that he OFTEN has a different goal then eveyone else -- which is very valuable information -- how could we agree on a solution if we have different goals?!

 

for both my kids, they really don't want their irrational way when they are being unreasonable or avoiding -- they want their problem solved. but, they don't have the quick problem solving skills to get to a solution and their 'go-to' is avoidance. then it becomes the seed that dcmom talked about.

 

ds8 tends to think he is the only one who experiences problems and his first solution is the one that needs to happen. this has helped him see there is actually a wide range of solutions to a problem and sometimes you have to try a few to find the right one. when we first started this, i used to point out to him times that he, we or someone solved a problem in a quick manner to make the point that people solve problems all the time, all day long. the room was dark - we turned on the light. i needed a chair - i got it from over in the corner. he'd laugh and think it was silly, but he really needed to get that.

 

 

OMG - i have now got to solve the problem of all the things i am avoiding doing by being here on this forum!!!

Edited January 17, 2013 by smartyjones

[Hayley]

Such good ideas. Thank you. I really like the approach of looking at all kinds of art with her to show that some of the "best" art might not look traditionally perfect. The baby steps towards getting over the avoidance are a great idea as well. And I do plan to talk to the art teacher as well. The school has been really great and even though the art teacher is known as tough, I think I could get his cooperation for anything we'd need. However, part of the problem is that DD doesn't want any accomodations. She rejects any suggestion that she can take a break in class or have different rules. It's all or nothing!

 

Thanks again!