Negative effects from Naturpathic Treatment?

[patty]

Anyone out there has negative effects from Naturpathic treatments?

 

My son had a sudden onset of head nodding tic, 6 months ago and later developed vocal tic off & on. We started treatment with a Naturpathic doctor. The Dr. recommended fish oil, 4 days into it, my son's vocal tic returned. So we stop and the tic was gone.

 

Then she started him with Unda #s for the detoxification of liver, kidney and body tissue. As a result, he developed new facial tics and gradually intensified the head nod tic. The dr. keep telling us it is normal and give it some time. We managed to finish the 1st set of Unda #s in about a month. And 6 days into the 2nd set of Unda#, his head nod tic was frequent and jerky and he was slightly off his feet, as if he was jumping. So we stopped and his tics subsided in about 2 weeks. The dr. adjusted the Unda # formula and recommend the 3rd set. Again more tics. So we stopped for another 3 weeks.

 

Since my son is so reactive to the Unda #s. She recommended probiotic, HMF Replete. About 6 days into it, my son developed new facial tics and more head nods. This time, it took about a month before everything taper off again. According to the dr., my son's increased symptoms is due to the yeast die off. She tested him for yeast thru a blood test and was negative. So far, we are experiencing everything opposite of what she is telling me.

 

The dr. told me I shouldn't stop the "HEALING CRISIS" (things don't get better until it gets worst). I am just not so sure if this is the right treatment plan for us.

 

I am thinking maybe not everyone respond to Naturalpathic medicine favorably. Anyone with the same experience?

 

And if anyone out there has a favorable experience with Naturalpathic treatments, please elaborate. I would love to know about it. I am trying to figure out what works best for my son.

 

Thx!

 

Patty

[Chemar]

Hi Patty

I think it is very important for you to distinguish between NATUROPATHY and HOMEOPATHY

 

Naturopathy is a HOLISTIC approach to health and healing and encompasses many and varied treatments, ranging from nutrition to supplements to detoxification to acupuncture etc etc etc etc. Some naturopaths are homeopaths too, but MANY do NOT use homeopathy in their protocol........so altho all homeopaths are naturopaths....not all naturopaths are homeopaths

 

Homeopathy is a very distinct branch of medicine where one is often told that things will get worse before they get better. Classic homeopathy treats a condition with minute doses of substances which, by themselves, would actually cause the condition. By treating with these substances that would, in large doses cause disease or irritation, the idea is that the body's own immuno and biochemical systems will be activated and so bring about healing and balance. ( vaccination uses this principle in a way too, by giving miniscule quantities of a disease causing microbe and so stimulating an antibody defence mechanism so that the body can fight off the disease if ever exposed to it in future)

But the important thing for you to note is that homeopathy does operate with this "worse before it gets better" principle because of what it is trying to achieve

 

I have looked up UNDA remedies and they are HOMEOPATHIC detoxification remedies!

so I really do think this distinction needs to be drawn as it could be confusing to some who may read this thread and become alarmed at naturopathy, when in fact, your doctor is using homeopathy

 

I have the utmost respect for homeopathy per se, but it was not suitable for my son and he did develop more tics from the homeopathic pillules he was given years ago (this was before we had our formal TS diagnosis) Once we had the TS dx, our homeopath openly told us that she did not feel we should continue with homeopathy as she felt it was not a treatment compatible with the complexities associated with Tourette's and its co-morbid conditions

 

Also

There are numerous anecdotal reports here on this board that MANY people with tics cannot tolerate fish oil supplements

That is not because they cannot tolerate naturopathy...quite the contrary....it is specific to fishoil supplements

 

There are also many threads that explain how very important it is to have individual testing done before beginning supplement and many other naturopathic treatments because the treatment needs to be tailored to the individual's unique biochemistry and not every supplement that works for some will necessarily work for others.

 

And yes, when there are underlying issues like Candida yeast or others infections, heavy metal or other toxins etc etc things do sometimes get worse first because those issues need to be eliminated before supplements etc will work effectively

 

The doctor you are seeing appears to be far more of a HOMEOPATH than a broad spectrum naturopath and so my personal feeling is that you may well need to find an INTEGRATIVE Physician who has experience in treating tics and Tourette's by holistic/naturopathic/alternative/complementary means.

 

 

Hope that sheds a bit of light on things for you and helps you to distinguish between homeopathy and naturopathy, and also helps you decide on whether you want to pursue the homepathic route, where to be fair, your doctor is being very honest with you in that, with the methods and remedies that they are using to treat your son, the inner healing process will be a long and possibly drawn out one, and where things may well get worse before getting better

 

I really do want to encourage you to not be put off naturopathy because of what you are experiencing with homeopathy.............but rather to explore the other options and decide if a more holistic approach would not be better for your son

[patty]

Chemar,

 

Thx for the clarification between homepathy and naturopath. All this is so confusing!

 

My son's ND requested 3 tests before coming up his treatment plan:

 

1. Immunolabs blood test,

CBC, Comprehensive metaliolic panel, TSH, Ferritin ( I am not even sure what this is )

 

2. CSA comprehensive stool Analysis

 

3. Heavy metal chelation test

 

I decided to go ahead with the first 2 tests. In retrospect, I am glad I did. With the chelation test, I know it will bring on more tics.

 

Based on the test results, my son's ND recommended fish oil, unda #s, various probiotics and treatment to repair the gut lining. The protocol is to take the supplements while her partner, also a ND, using NAET to treat my son's food and environmental allergy. (Initially, I only wanted NAET treatment, but this particular office's policy is to go thru a ND for evaulation, take various supplements along with NAET).

 

Here are my questions:

 

If my son's ND used the above tests results as baseline to treat my son's symptoms, why does he experience so much side effect? Is it possible that she prescribed an inappropriate treatment plan for my son. I am not sure what to expect from the next doctor, rather a ND or....

 

Since homepathic medicine bought on more symptoms for my son, do you think it can worsen his tics? We stopped taking the Unda #s and probiotic for about 1 month, his symptoms are gradually going away, but will he be back to where he was? At this point, my son still has more tic that we started the treatment plan ( he has 2 new vocal tics, and uses his shirt to wipe his mouth, which we haven't seen for about 9 months)!

 

In reading all the info. here. I believe someone with environmental allergy would benefit from vitamin supplements, like calcium & magnesuim ...., and also an air purifier.

 

I am starting my son with calcuim and magnesium and using a air purifier today, hopefully it helps.

 

Thx again chemar, you are a wealth of information. You and others really help me sort out alot of information otherwise would have taken me weeks to find out. It has been really hard to work alone for the last 6 months.

 

Do you keep a daily journal on your son's symptoms, diet....? I have been doing it since the onset of his tics and all the observation is wearing me out! I find that I am less stress out when I am not constantly watching him. I think he notice my observation. We often lock eyes. Can this be stressful for him knowing that I am watching him? I wonder if this can indirectly cause more tics?!

 

Patty

[Guest]

Patty,

 

I know you feel uncomfortable do the heavy metal chelation test, but I wanted to mention if your son has any fillings in his mouth don't have him take anything that's going to detox mercury. I'm guessing since your son's younger he maybe doesn't have any fillings and if he does they are hopefully the non-mercury ones. I just wanted to be sure I mentioned that.

 

I have had some unda experience with and also heavy metal detox while I had mercury fillings. The doctor also did osteopathic manipulation on my back. None of this went well, and I did develop more tics at the time. I hated osteopathic manipulation because I don't like the light pressure. This doctor has now since moved on to California.

 

Yes, if your son notices your watching him, it can stress him out. It makes him think about his tics and likely causes him to tic more. As a child my dad would always stare at me, probably some as observing me, but also my tics annoyed and embarrassed him when in the public. I wouldn't sit by my dad in restaurants because of this and I always told my mom to tell my dad to stop staring at me.

 

Also if you decide on a new doctor, they may be a very good doctor. With my heavy metal chelation, I'm on my 4th doctor. The one was the above doctor I discussed. Another was one that didn't feel comfortable using the chelating agent I preferred. Another one didn't return my phone calls when I had troubles while chelating. My current one so far seems really good, keeps up on testing, trys to find the best route for me, and returns my calls. I'm in an area where alternative treatments hasn't caught on yet much. So sometimes it can take a while to find a natural doctor just as with any other type of doctor, but they are out there.

 

Carolyn

[orthomolecular]

I never heard of a naturopathic practioner NOT learning or using homeopathy. There are homeopathic remedies used in naturopathic practices all the time. This is common.

 

But there is a huge difference between the homeopathic treatment you get from a homeopath and the homeopathic treatment you get from a naturapath. Naturopaths have much less training in homeopathy and do not really have a full understanding of classical homeopathy, which adheres to the principle of using only one remedy at a time. A homeopath is less likely to mix different types of remedies, like using herbs and homeopathic remedies together, but a naturopath will employ different treatment remedies at the same time.

 

It can take 10 years for a homeopath to be considered "experienced" vs. still relatively new. Homeopathy is a complex subject to study, but naturopaths do not learn it as extensively as a homeopath. These two different practioners use homeopathy in different ways.

 

I am more familiar with classical homeopathy which is what homeopaths do. But a healing crisis is not something to be concerned about. A healing crisis is a good thing. It is part of the healing process.

 

If you don't feel comfortable with the homeopathic process (specifically the healing crisis) then you should not consult with a naturopath. The reality is that you can't go to some doctor and tell that doctor what treatment you want and don't want. No practioner would ever go for that. That is why you need to ask questions before the first appointment. You need to get a clear idea of the approach that person is likely to take with you. Otherwise you wasted an appointment and your money.

[Chemar]

I never heard of a naturopathic practioner NOT learning or using homeopathy. There are homeopathic remedies used in naturopathic practices all the time. This is common.

 

 

I have encountered many practitioners who practice naturopathic ie holistic medicine without the use of homeopathy, some who will refer to homeopaths if needed, some who dont in any way use homeopathy, classic or not, directly or by referral, in their practice

 

yes, many naturopaths do use homeopathy, but many also do not

 

as I stated before, all homeopaths are naturopaths but NOT all naturopaths are homeopaths

[orthomolecular]

[

as I stated before, all homeopaths are naturopaths but NOT all naturopaths are homeopaths

 

Sorry but that is not true that All homeopaths are naturopaths. Homeopaths are homeopaths and I don't think they consider themselves anything else. (Of course some have training in osteopathy, acupuncture, etc., but they would never call themselves a naturopath.) Anyone calling themselves a homeopath has studied classical homeopathy and NOT naturapathy. A homeopath has a diploma in homeopathy but a naturopath would not have this level of training in homeopathy (because if they did they would call themselves a homeopath).

 

There is a huge difference between the homeopathic treatment that a naturopath is cabable of compared to a homeopath.

 

But most naturopathic schools teach a variety of therapies like nutrition, herbs and homeopathy. A naturopath can be viewed by some as a jack of all trades having studied a little bit of herbology, nutritiona and homeopathy. But they may not really be expert in all those fields, but certainly not in homeopathy.

 

http://www.gingernash.com/faq.html

 

What is the difference between a homeopath and a naturopath?

Homeopathic medicine is a specific form of therapy that is safe and non-toxic. Naturopaths are trained in homeopathic medicine but our training is far more extensive than homeopathy alone. When practitioners identify themselves as homeopaths it does not necessarily mean they have a medical background whereas a Naturopathic Physician must complete the doctorate in Naturopathic medicine as described above. Although, many naturopaths, osteopaths and medical doctors study homeopathy and incorporate it into their medical practice.

 

The way I see it naturopaths basically study natural medicine which would include homeopathy. And yes, that is accurate that homeopaths may not have any medical background because they look at disease in a completely different way. For homeopaths, it is not about some disease or condition (whch is really a label) but about the precise symptoms.

[Chemar]

we are obviously talking about different definitions of naturopathic practicioners, orthomolecular

 

I am referring to naturopathy as a broad holistic branch of Integrative medicine and you are referring to it as a narrow and specific qualification ie ND

 

for example, we used to see an MD who is also considered to practice naturopathic ie HOLISTIC medicine but he does not incorporate any homeopathy in his practice and has a PA (alternative physician) speciality not an ND. Similarly the classic homeopath that my son used to see certainly considered herself as a naturopathic practitioner, with homeopathy as her specialization. She did not have an MD or an ND but a classical homeopathic qualification and a PhD

 

and yes, I fully agree that classical homeopathy and that used by many naturopaths are worlds apart

 

However, pedantics aside, the essence of this discussion was to point out to Patty that the "crisis of healing" that her naturopath was referring too was inherent in homeopathy and that the UNDA remedies were not supplements but homeopathic remedies, and that her child's reaction was likely the "worse before it gets better" situation that is to be generally expected with homeopathy, but that those criteria are not necessarily inherant in naturopathy in its broad holistic sense

[Lollymom]

This is a little off topic but may be worth exploring. Sudden onset of tics (motor and vocal), OCD types of behaviors and anxiety can also be due to Strep. This is a condition called PANDAS - Pediatric Autoimmune Neuropsychiatric Disorder Associated with Strep. My son has this and has struggled with vocal and motor tics a lot. He does not have active symptoms of Strep in his throat but it is somewhere in his body. There is a discussion area on ACN Online for PANDAS which may be worth exploring. There are also some great websites with information such as

http://pandasnetwork.org/. There are some tests that can be run to help see if it might be an issue (ASO Titers (strep antibody levels in your blood, AntiDnase B test). PANDAS is not widely known or acknowledged in the medical community. It is slowly being accepted and acknowledged because it is a recent discovery. It is real and there are treatments to help put it into remission. It took me many years to figure out what was really wrong with my son. We have worked with a good Naturopath who did not do a lot of homeopathy. We have found many allergies and changed his diet significantly which help reduce his symptoms significantly as well as many supplements. We have recently started on some homeopathy through his pediatrician and it seems there might be some side effects but it is too soon to tell for us. PANDAS is caused by the antibodies produced against Strep which attack the basal ganglia in the brain. These patients are usually highly sensitive to Strep and may not always show symptoms of Strep (as in my son's case). Hope this is helpful and that you find out what is best for your child. May God bless you.

[Chemar]

Hi Lollymom and welcome

 

in case you hadn't seen, this thread you replied to is from 2006

 

and yes, even then we were discussing PANDAS here, long before other forums were. So much so that we went on to open our own PANDAS forum http://www.latitudes.org/forums/index.php?showforum=17

[Michelle2012]

Hi all,

 

I know this is a very old thread, but I'm desperate.

 

I'm looking for the homeopathy products made by Dr. Schuessler. I'm told that they now fall under the Unda line which was mentioned in this thread.

 

I can't find Unda anywhere online & I need the H9 pills for my constant sneezing.

 

Does anyone know where I can get them shipped to Miami?

 

Thank you

 

 

Michelle

[patty]

Unda numbers are widely used by NDs. Try contacting a ND in your area.

 

If you have not used homeopathic remedies before or have much knowledge about homeopathy, I highly suggest you do your research & talk to various NDs who practices homeopathy & homeopaths before preceeding.

 

Pat