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Hi all,

My DD had some blood work done that showed (among other things) that her copper level was very low. Have any of you seen this before and do you know what that can mean? We went over the labs with our pediatrician and she didn't know what it meant. From googling I can see that Copper can relate to brain function, just not really sure how or what it can cause when it's low.

 

Thanks!

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Hi Landamom,

 

Wow! You are the first parent I've every seen post about low copper besides me. Most folks, if they post about copper at all, post about high copper. I thought for sure both of my girls would be high copper, but nope. THey've been tested twice now and both my dd9 and dd12 are low copper. There is a compliment test that I'm drawing a blank on now that rules in or out Wilson's Disease. My girls do not have Wilson's disease, just low copper. I've been supplementing for a month or so with 1.5 mg of chelated copper, but neither Dr. B nor our family doctor seem to get too jazzed up about them being low in copper.

 

Dr. T said something about copper and histamine before....I'd love to know his thoughts on low copper and if supplementing does any good. They haven't been tested since I started the copper supplement.

 

Jill

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Hmmm... Copper and zinc are supposed to balance each other, so my question is - what's happening with zinc? It seems to be far more common to have high copper and low zinc and that causes problems - Dr Bill Walsh has been studying this for many years.

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well -- i'd say a lot of it is how you look at it. . . first, did your ped who doesn't know what to make of it order it or was the ped helping with another dr that ordered it?

 

 

my ds has what is considered in homeopathy a 'cuprum (copper) personality'. i have wondered about KPU. i beleive he is doing well concerning infections but not 100%. he had 2 exacerbations last year -- one due to extreme stress, one after allergic reaction to sunscreen. i was looking for more answers.

 

our ped ran some tests - zinc, copper, ceruloplasmin, and others. we did with quest. came back with zinc low normal and copper being low - which was VERY bizarre for me. ped not at all concerned. i was b/c i had concerns with zinc/copper in the first place, why i asked for tests. i can't remember but there is some issue with some people with Wilson's Disease may test low in some copper tests. . there is free copper and copper bound to protein. ped shrugged shoulders and blew off --( this is a ped i consider a good part of our team - think he's the best ped we are going to find -- just has limitations as a ped.)

 

a few months later, we added a new dr who wanted to invesstigate these issues but trusts labcorp more. we redid labs (yeah, that was fun - cost me some sanity and a nerf gun).

 

i knew this dr uses different criteria -- considers general ranges to be for "body health" and has different ranges they consider for "optimum health" i.e. best mental health functioning.. so, under this criteria, ds shows low zinc, normal copper and inappropriate znic/copper ratio.

 

i see as i look at the past labs -- not related to how our dr thinks or works -- labcorp and quest have very different reference levels for zinc, copper and ceruloplasmin. ds's blood tested very close in both tests (thanks for the trauma!). the differeent labs would have rated differently for normal reference range or deficiency. our dr doesn't use their levels but has their own.

 

then, there is the whole issue of how accurate mineral blood testing is in the first place.

 

my advice would be to discuss with the dr that ordered in the first place, what they were looking for and what they expect to see in "normal' reference ranges.

 

please keep me informed what you find -- i'm very interested in other's zinc and copper issues. thanks.

Edited by smartyjones
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I'm interested in the copper/zinc issue too. DS was tested by his biomed dr using Genova Diagnostics. His copper is high and zinc is normal. He had his ceruloplasmin tested by Dr T and it came back normal. I plan to ask his biomed dr about the copper when we return for follow up next month. I believe the supplements DS is now taking will take care of the excess copper but I'm not certain, so I'm going to ask.

 

Guess I should have added that I had DS tested for MTHFR by his ped recently and found out his is compound heterozygous. I have not talked to the biomed dr about it yet, so it will be interesting to see what he has to say. Its out of ped's expertise.

Edited by nicklemama
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I'm interested in the copper/zinc issue too. DS was tested by his biomed dr using Genova Diagnostics. His copper is high and zinc is normal. He had his ceruloplasmin tested by Dr T and it came back normal. I plan to ask his biomed dr about the copper when we return for follow up next month. I believe the supplements DS is now taking will take care of the excess copper but I'm not certain, so I'm going to ask.

 

Guess I should have added that I had DS tested for MTHFR by his ped recently and found out his is compound heterozygous. I have not talked to the biomed dr about it yet, so it will be interesting to see what he has to say. Its out of ped's expertise.

 

 

nicklemama -- interesting b/c i think i recall our ds's having similar symptoms -- ? did you ds have 'asperger-like' issues? do you have the lab results? our dr works with theories of copper/zinc ratio -- i think they like to see it below 1. ds was 1.3. i think there have been some autism studies on this also. did dr T say what he was looking for or ruling out with ceruloplamin -- Wilson's - ?

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DS was tested a couple dif time for zinc - first made my radar with a below normal range of 8.6 (9-14.7) This was RBC test.

 

Then I wanted to look further into it -- bcs at the time was wondering if DS could have celiacs (in which case you aren't absorbing enough minerals and may result ins ome being low) and the

RBC was 11.3 (9-14.7) and the PLASMA zinc - which is a different measure of absorbtion was 74 ( 25-148)

 

I was told that especially with kids - these levels fluctuate a lot daily. So, getting another test, and getting the plasma test vs the RBC version will give better picture of what situation is.

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Very interesting points highlighted in this thread to which I would like to add my two cents.

 

I find "reference ranges of normal" curious......particularly those that show significant variability in tight age ranges. Let's stick with copper

COPPER

 

Dd9 = 74 with a normal range of (117-181)

Dd12= 70 with a normal range of (87-182)

 

You can see both girls have similar levels, but younger girl is farther 'out of range' than older girl. Both of my girls are big for their ages; tall, but lean. Dd9 is 5'1" (85lbs) and dd12 is 5'8" (142lbs). Does size play a larger role than chronological age? What about if a girl has begun menses? Both girls had normal/average zinc levels and were ruled out for Wilson's. I computed their ratios before, but can't recall at the moment.

 

Also, anyone who has been at this for awhile.......have you noticed how the reference ranges for anti-DNAse B have changed over the past 3 years? The lower limit of normal with Quest used to be around 175, now it is about 375. I have no idea how these things are determined, but I wonder who else is running anti-DNAse B titers besides those who run in these circles and it seems odd to me 375 is the "new normal".......kinda like me convincing myself 42 is the new 28 ;)

The reference ranges for C3D have also changed considerably. Used to be 0-8, now it is 0-25. My dd12 ran 27 I believe, which was clearly out of whack a few years ago and much closer by recent ranges. Did she improve? Who knows!

 

There are so many variables. I read a post by P.Mom on the Pepsi FB page discussing her son's IgG which had improved from the 500s to the 900s. When I look at my two girls' IgG, lower normal for dd9 is upper 600's and she runs lower 600's but dd12's lower normal is lower 900's and she runs upper 800's with no IVIG in her system. So I could say my older dd's has improved a few hundred points with puberty, but both girls proportionately run 50-75 points below the normal limits for their age range. All that being said.....my older dd12 is responding to illness in a more typical fashion the further into puberty she is. Where she used to flare from many triggers, she seems to be closing the loop only reacting to strep if not protected by abx. (P.Mom- I hope you don't mind that I shared that from the other site, I'm thrilled your son is so healthy; my prayer for all of our kids!)

Edited by JAG10
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Smartyjones- Yes! my son had aspergers like behaviors. He was actually given an aspergers dx at age 6.5, during an extended exacerbation, before we knew about PANDAS. He was diagnosed PANDAS a few weeks later by Dr T, who told me he doubted DS had Asperger's since he was a perfectly neurotypical boy until he had a FluMist vax at age 5.5. DS no longer has the Asperger's behaviors/symptoms.

 

Dr T was ruling out Wilson's with the ceruloplasmin test.

 

I do have the lab results from Genova for copper and zinc. I also have the lab results for the ceruloplasmin. I think its from Quest.

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Thanks everyone for the great responses!

 

- we had no issues with zinc. She does take a multi but nothing with excess zinc other then that

- these tests were done through another doc, not our pediatrician so she was looking at someone else's order, so I can't blame her for not knowing what it meant

- the dr. that ordered the tests I will never take my DD back to because he is a monster

- Dr. T just did a bunch of labs and he did tested for ceruloplasmin which was normal

 

We have an aptmt. with Dr. B next week so I will also ask them and get back to you all with what they report!!

 

Best-

 

:)

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