antibiotics bring out tics?

[TessaKrista]

I have noticed something recently. A while back in April, my son took antibiotics. Then, he started again, and the first day, he started with this throat clearing tic. It seemed odd that it happened on that day.

 

Now, this month, I gave my son antibiotics one day, and that same day, he did this throat clearing thing, and started with a neck tic. I stopped the antibiotics. Then two weeks later I started up again with a different antibiotic in the evening, and that evening, he started clearing his throat and having this light breathing cough. The next day, he had a wild neck tic, that was worse than I have seen.

 

This is day 4 of the antibiotic, and each time I give it to him, he does this throat thing, and light cough that has this breathing thing along with it, as if he is trying to catch his breath. This time, the cough thing and clearing lasts around one hour or two, whereas in April, it was so severe that it just kept going. So, I give it to him at 8:30 am, and he starts with the sound. I give it to him at 8:30 pm, and the sounds starts until he falls asleep. It seems too coincidental not to link the two. It sounds as if he is gasping for breath and clearing his throat. The neck tic is the worse I have ever seen it.

 

I feel helpless, and I feel as if I have brought this on. Perhaps he has candidas. We went to a naturopath in April, and she didn't think he had a fungal infection bc his tongue was not white. The regular pediatrician said the same thing. But...the odd thing is that I have definitely made the connection between antibiotics and this throat thing and this gasping thing, and this new tic which gets worse with each day I give him antibiotics.

 

Is it possible that it is in his gut? I am stopping the antibiotic tomorrow morning. This is just too much.

 

Any suggestions on tests or anything else is greatly appreciated.

[Kimflow]

Hi,

When this whole PANDAS started for my son and he had exacerbation of choreiform movements (severe after the first several hours of zithromax) moms told me to consider lyme and other TBI. This may be just one explanation for you. Has he been tested for Lyme/TBI?

Second, the air hunger I believe is one of the symptoms for lyme, babesia, or bartonella as these are the lists that I have been reading...I just cannot remember which one.

Or it could all just be OCD related but something to think about.

I would think that if you are seeing this though it may very well mean that you are killing off "something". see what others say.

[Missmom]

I have also been wondering the same thing although I am constantly second guessing myself and all of my decisions. My ds12 was tic free for two years and then this past march was taking a very low dose of amox. for an eye infection and on about day seven of that started with a slight winking tic. That lasted a few days then a really bad head nod started every 2-3seconds. We started on augmentin and things improved to about 70%. But then regressed again. We increased doseage several times and with each increase the tics got worse before they got better. It took about three weeks before he was finally at about 90%. We then started a daily prophylactic keflex. He remained between 80-95% for about a month and then started flairing again. I started him on full dose biaxin and then things really went bad. He started with a really hard blinking tic and head nod which was bad the entire ten days. I did not want to stop giving the biaxin because I was afraid the infection would not go away so I stayed with it. Anyway now we are back on the daily keflex and things have improved to about 90% again. The tics have never fully gone away though since march. I have also noticed a little bit of an increase within two hours of giving him the keflex. I wonder if I took him off of everything if things would improve but I am too scared to stop the daily keflex because strep is still going around in my area. I am curious about yeast as well because before I found this board I did not know to give probiotics. So that could be an issue. Don't know how they test for or treat yeast but it may be something for me to look into. I am pretty sure Lyme is not an issue for us as he has never had a tick bite. Never been the outdoors or camping type. I don't really have any answers for you other than to say I have been thinking the same thing. Antibiotics are suppose to stop tics not make them worse. At least that has been the case for us in the past. Anyway, I will watch this post also and look to see what others might say. We just had a bunch of labs run on Monday when we had an apt. with neurologist but have not gotten any results back yet. I will post if i learn anything interesting from those.

[Missmom]

I have noticed something recently. A while back in April, my son took antibiotics. Then, he started again, and the first day, he started with this throat clearing tic. It seemed odd that it happened on that day.

 

Now, this month, I gave my son antibiotics one day, and that same day, he did this throat clearing thing, and started with a neck tic. I stopped the antibiotics. Then two weeks later I started up again with a different antibiotic in the evening, and that evening, he started clearing his throat and having this light breathing cough. The next day, he had a wild neck tic, that was worse than I have seen.

 

This is day 4 of the antibiotic, and each time I give it to him, he does this throat thing, and light cough that has this breathing thing along with it, as if he is trying to catch his breath. This time, the cough thing and clearing lasts around one hour or two, whereas in April, it was so severe that it just kept going. So, I give it to him at 8:30 am, and he starts with the sound. I give it to him at 8:30 pm, and the sounds starts until he falls asleep. It seems too coincidental not to link the two. It sounds as if he is gasping for breath and clearing his throat. The neck tic is the worse I have ever seen it.

 

I feel helpless, and I feel as if I have brought this on. Perhaps he has candidas. We went to a naturopath in April, and she didn't think he had a fungal infection bc his tongue was not white. The regular pediatrician said the same thing. But...the odd thing is that I have definitely made the connection between antibiotics and this throat thing and this gasping thing, and this new tic which gets worse with each day I give him antibiotics.

 

Is it possible that it is in his gut? I am stopping the antibiotic tomorrow morning. This is just too much.

 

Any suggestions on tests or anything else is greatly appreciated.

Has stopping the abx. helped at all? Just curious.

[LNN]

I would seriously consider the possibility that this is a herx response. My son's tics came back for a time when he was doing some aggressive lyme treatments. In his case, detox helped reduce the severity -alpha lipoic acid, bentonite clay/charcoal, milk thistle for the liver, and motrin to help inflammation. It may be that the antibiotics are doing a good thing but you need to help the body get rid of the toxins created when the abx kill bacteria. You can search this forum and the lyme forum for detox topics. I wouldn't let a return of tics keep you away from abx if it's possible that the abx are doing something good (assuming you determine it isn't a yeast response)

[TessaKrista]

I have noticed something recently. A while back in April, my son took antibiotics. Then, he started again, and the first day, he started with this throat clearing tic. It seemed odd that it happened on that day.

 

Now, this month, I gave my son antibiotics one day, and that same day, he did this throat clearing thing, and started with a neck tic. I stopped the antibiotics. Then two weeks later I started up again with a different antibiotic in the evening, and that evening, he started clearing his throat and having this light breathing cough. The next day, he had a wild neck tic, that was worse than I have seen.

 

This is day 4 of the antibiotic, and each time I give it to him, he does this throat thing, and light cough that has this breathing thing along with it, as if he is trying to catch his breath. This time, the cough thing and clearing lasts around one hour or two, whereas in April, it was so severe that it just kept going. So, I give it to him at 8:30 am, and he starts with the sound. I give it to him at 8:30 pm, and the sounds starts until he falls asleep. It seems too coincidental not to link the two. It sounds as if he is gasping for breath and clearing his throat. The neck tic is the worse I have ever seen it.

 

I feel helpless, and I feel as if I have brought this on. Perhaps he has candidas. We went to a naturopath in April, and she didn't think he had a fungal infection bc his tongue was not white. The regular pediatrician said the same thing. But...the odd thing is that I have definitely made the connection between antibiotics and this throat thing and this gasping thing, and this new tic which gets worse with each day I give him antibiotics.

 

Is it possible that it is in his gut? I am stopping the antibiotic tomorrow morning. This is just too much.

 

Any suggestions on tests or anything else is greatly appreciated.

Has stopping the abx. helped at all? Just curious.

 

No.... stopping the abx Biaxin, hasn't stopped his neck stretching tic, or his occasional throat clearing, light cough and air hunger sound.

 

How do I get him tested for yeast in his gut and elsewhere? Would a naturopath know, or the mainstream pediatrician? He did the throat clearing thing last time when I started him on azith, and he also got a kitten for the first time, so I chalked it up to an allergic reaction to the kitten. We have kept her in the basement, and have her hang out in the backyard. Eventually his throat clearing and cough thing went away, only to return when I gave him biaxin. Plus....the neck stretching thing has suddenly started.

 

His female friend came over on Friday June 15, and that night, her parents took her to emerg because of how she was acting with her high fever, sore throat and lethargy. Turns out she had strep. She didn't go to school for a few days. I called her family, and they told me about the strep, but really didn't understand that I was totally worried that her strep could have affected my kid in a different way. Tuesday June 20th, my ds9 got kicked in the back of his head at school playing soccer, enough to make him cry and go to the office for ice. That was 4 days after the strep girl came to our house. He was having little funny movements with his chin. On Thursday June 21, I gave him one dose of Biaxin in the evening, and then by Friday June 22, he had this crazy neck stretching thing that really freaked me out. Plus... I started noticing that he started clearing his throat that Thursday night when I gave him his first dose, and then again on Friday morning when I gave him his second dose. But, the throat clearing, light cough, air hunger thing, would last one hour after the dose, and then stop. I started to see that it wasn't the cat afterall.

 

Someone mentioned lyme. You know, last year, he did have a big circular thing on his leg, and I remember wondering about lyme, but he had no symptoms. Is it possible that one year later, the lyme symptoms surfaced? Bear in mind, that in March, my ds9 had his second full blown pandas episode, fears, emotional lability, urinary frequency, and all. His behaviour was so different, suddenly so different, that dh finally believed in pandas as a result of that time frame.

 

I don't know if it was the head injury, the strep, possible lyme, exposure to strep, or yeast that brought out the crazy neck stretching thing. It is noticeable enough that a kid at school asked him last week to explain why he did that, and ds told him that he likes to do it.

 

I have been doing epsom salt baths, and adding magnesium to his food. Nothing has changed. Although, the throat clearing thing seems to be about really clearing something that is stuck in there, and it is occasional...but the neck stretching is constant.

 

I was reading Jenny McCarthy's book with that doctor, and they talk about giving kids diflucan along with antibiotics. I don't know if that protocol is only for kids with autism which my son doesn't have, or if that is just good practice for all kids.

 

Can I do my own lyme testing, or do I need a doctor to make it happen in Canada? Can I send something off to see if he has yeast in his poop or guts, without requiring a doctor to sign off, or do I need a pediatrician's approval in Canada?

 

For anyone who might have done yeast testing in the U.S. or Canada, on your own, how much did it cost? What lab did you use?

 

Re: lyme, I hear that the Canadian lyme testing isn't good, because they don't use high enough numbers to determine whether or not someone has lyme. The U.S. accepts lower numbers from the testing results to gauge whether or not someone has lyme. What labs have you used that you liked?

 

Thanks for your replies!

[TessaKrista]

I have also been wondering the same thing although I am constantly second guessing myself and all of my decisions. My ds12 was tic free for two years and then this past march was taking a very low dose of amox. for an eye infection and on about day seven of that started with a slight winking tic. That lasted a few days then a really bad head nod started every 2-3seconds. We started on augmentin and things improved to about 70%. But then regressed again. We increased doseage several times and with each increase the tics got worse before they got better. It took about three weeks before he was finally at about 90%. We then started a daily prophylactic keflex. He remained between 80-95% for about a month and then started flairing again. I started him on full dose biaxin and then things really went bad. He started with a really hard blinking tic and head nod which was bad the entire ten days. I did not want to stop giving the biaxin because I was afraid the infection would not go away so I stayed with it. Anyway now we are back on the daily keflex and things have improved to about 90% again. The tics have never fully gone away though since march. I have also noticed a little bit of an increase within two hours of giving him the keflex. I wonder if I took him off of everything if things would improve but I am too scared to stop the daily keflex because strep is still going around in my area. I am curious about yeast as well because before I found this board I did not know to give probiotics. So that could be an issue. Don't know how they test for or treat yeast but it may be something for me to look into. I am pretty sure Lyme is not an issue for us as he has never had a tick bite. Never been the outdoors or camping type. I don't really have any answers for you other than to say I have been thinking the same thing. Antibiotics are suppose to stop tics not make them worse. At least that has been the case for us in the past. Anyway, I will watch this post also and look to see what others might say. We just had a bunch of labs run on Monday when we had an apt. with neurologist but have not gotten any results back yet. I will post if i learn anything interesting from those.

 

 

Keflex seems to really work wonders for your child. Azith used to work like a charm before for tics related to infections. However, the last time we used azith, ds9 was going through a full blown pandas episode in March, and even though he had these throat clearing tics and coughs, and air breathing thing, we continued. The other stuff was too intense not to continue, such as his fear that any hard food could contain glass, that he swallowed the button batteries used in a toy, that his bladder was going to burst, that he wanted to die, that he hated his life, that he was peeing his pants during the day, for fear that his bladder would burst if he didn't pee immediately when he felt the urge every five minutes....etc...etc... etc... Advil along with azith cleared those kinds of things up, but it took a few weeks...except for the urinary frequency (which eventually decreased to every half hour) and the daytime urinating in his pants. We then used cefprozil, and things were good. It was as if we had lived out some kind of nightmare, and my kid was back.... except that this throat clearing and cough tic lingered on for a bit, with the use of azith. It was nice to see the strange behaviours go away though. Without knowing that a bunch of kids in his class had strep (I think seven or something) back then, and without knowing about pandas, my kid would have been seeing a psychiatrist for his odd behaviour during that pandas flair up. But... I knew what I was dealing with because it was so sudden and so odd.

 

Now however, it is just the tics. He doesnt have the strange behaviour stuff. I am wondering about yeast and lyme now. Also wondering if the biaxin just wasn't the right med.

[TessaKrista]

I would seriously consider the possibility that this is a herx response. My son's tics came back for a time when he was doing some aggressive lyme treatments. In his case, detox helped reduce the severity -alpha lipoic acid, bentonite clay/charcoal, milk thistle for the liver, and motrin to help inflammation. It may be that the antibiotics are doing a good thing but you need to help the body get rid of the toxins created when the abx kill bacteria. You can search this forum and the lyme forum for detox topics. I wouldn't let a return of tics keep you away from abx if it's possible that the abx are doing something good (assuming you determine it isn't a yeast response)

How do I do a search on the forum?

[LNN]

I would seriously consider the possibility that this is a herx response. My son's tics came back for a time when he was doing some aggressive lyme treatments. In his case, detox helped reduce the severity -alpha lipoic acid, bentonite clay/charcoal, milk thistle for the liver, and motrin to help inflammation. It may be that the antibiotics are doing a good thing but you need to help the body get rid of the toxins created when the abx kill bacteria. You can search this forum and the lyme forum for detox topics. I wouldn't let a return of tics keep you away from abx if it's possible that the abx are doing something good (assuming you determine it isn't a yeast response)

How do I do a search on the forum?

 

In the upper right corner of the screen you'll see your login name. Just below that is a search bar. You can type "detox" in the search bar or you can click on the gear shape on the far right and do an advanced search.

 

I would also post your questions on the lyme forum. There are at least two moms from Canada on that forum - momcap and someone else. One is in the Toronto area and one is on the west coast.

 

I dismissed lyme as a possible factor for my son for the longest time. But it was only after we treated the lyme that we saw improvements that lasted. A year and a half of treatment has brought him back to baseline and he's been symptom-free for several months. We stop all abx in a few days to see if the lyme is totally gone. He hasn't ticced in over a year (tho he does take many supplements to support his body and brain).

 

Last fall, Advanced Labs came out with a lyme culture that works like a strep culture. It can take a picture of actual lyme spirochettes in your blood - no debate over antibodies or results. It's just shy of $600 and not covered by insurance but it avoids the controversy of all the other tests. You do need to be off abx for 4 weeks before taking the test. http://www.advanced-lab.com/spirochete.php A doctor must order the test. You may want to contact CanLyme for a list of doctors in your area http://www.canlyme.com/

[tpotter]

I would seriously consider the possibility that this is a herx response. My son's tics came back for a time when he was doing some aggressive lyme treatments. In his case, detox helped reduce the severity -alpha lipoic acid, bentonite clay/charcoal, milk thistle for the liver, and motrin to help inflammation. It may be that the antibiotics are doing a good thing but you need to help the body get rid of the toxins created when the abx kill bacteria. You can search this forum and the lyme forum for detox topics. I wouldn't let a return of tics keep you away from abx if it's possible that the abx are doing something good (assuming you determine it isn't a yeast response)

 

 

Agreed. And herxing is a sign of lyme, as is air hunger (I had that after being on azith for 1 month straight...it was horrible, but eventually cleared. And detoxing is quite important. If you aren't already, I would also make sure you are taking plenty of probiotics, including sacchromyces, since you brought up the issue of candida. You certainly want to avoid that.