antibiotics after tick exposure?

[EAMom]

Like the stick - I might have to pick up one for myself. Deet needs to be washed off after activities. Will she be taking daily showers at camp every day?

 

 

Yes, I love the stick. I wish they made a stick with 20% picaridin.

 

I was looking at products with 20% Picaridin...which is less toxic than Deet, but also supposed to be effective vs. ticks. They're not supposed to bring a spray (which isn't ideal either, since a bunch of it will go where it isn't intended!)

So, my choice is either a lotion or a wet wipe. Either way, she'll get it all over her hands (granted it's not deet, but I'd rather the highest concentration isn't on her hands, in case she puts her fingers in her mouth, or eats w/out washing her hands well.) Anyway, I've only found 20% picaridin in wet wipes (can't find that percentage in a lotion).

 

So, maybe I'll pack some for my dd (and hope she uses it?). http://www.rei.com/product/770011/natrapel-picaridin-insect-repellent-wipes-12-count

Edited May 25, 2012 by EAMom

[lyme_mom]

Like the stick - I might have to pick up one for myself. Deet needs to be washed off after activities. Will she be taking daily showers at camp every day?

 

Also, www.tickencounter.org shows videos on how to apply permethrin to clothing with the spraying/soaking method. Lot of other great information as well.

 

Yeah...I found the stick at REI. I'll use it on myself and non-pandas dd (mosquitos love us) when we are in buggy areas (travel/camping). I agree with you about not having a child apply deet (without a parent to supervise or do it). Also, I cannot be sure that she will take daily showers!

 

You may find this interesting from http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1029&message=28191009

 

Permethrin has an excito-repelllent effect and is also a toxicant. Thus it can repel but also kill the insect. Yes Permethrin can be broken down quickly in the body but some people can develop allergic skin irritation when in contact with the chemical; if this happens, stop using it. Permethrin comes in various forms but it can be purchased in most countries from outdoor stores where it is often sold for impregnating mosquito bed nets. Some countries have Permethrin in spray tins; Permanone is the US was one such product. In South Africa they have another synthetic pyrethroid, flumethrin, available in an aerosol. I have used this product in Australia while undertaking tick risk assessments and have never recieved a tick bite! Without repellents I have had to remove more than 300 larval ticks from myself.

 

In terms of repellents my recommendations are to use either a DEET or Picaridin product on the skin; it is better to use creams rather than sprays as they can be more thickly applied. You can use DEET/Picaridin sprays on the clothing but be aware that DEET can damage nylon based fabrics. Otherwise wash the clothes in permethrin and reapply every 3 or so uses.

 

As to DEET vs Picaridin. DEET has been around for quite some time and when applied according to the label instructions is safe and effective. Tests in our laboratory against mosquitoes have shown that the higher concentrations of DEET provide a longer duration of protection but not greater protection. This means the lower % DEET formulations need to be reapplied, usually at least every two hours.

 

Picaridin was developed in Germany by Bayer as an alternative to DEET. Picaridin has less smell, feels better to put on and has lower mammalian toxicity than DEET, in fact Picaridin is every approved for use on children under 12 months in Europe. If using Picaridin go for the 19% formulation, the 9% was not very effective in trials against ticks.

 

Kind regards

Stephen

We have some experience in this area as my teenage sons have gone on camping trips post lyme disease. I consulted a naturopath who advised that they take astralagus, samento and another one I can't remember that starts with a B that is also a liquid that you drop in water (I will try and remember) before during and after the trip. This naturopath also advised sending a supply of doxy with him should he get a tick bite (interesting that even a dr who doesn't usually use antibiotics wants you to take doxy immediately following a tickbite). My llmd gave me the doxy prescription and I sent it. My son got a tickbite the first day and started doxy. The next day they went on a 6 hour canoe ride and he got burned. When he returned my llmd put him on ceftin b/c of the sun issue. We saved the tick and I sent it to Igenex for the triple testing (Bart, Bab, Borellia) and it was negative. What a hassle it was so I am not too keen on camping. I did not use promethrin or deet (I have read contradictory things about deet). I sent him with natural repellents, the wrist bands that have citronella (quite sure he did not use them :-). I would probably do what you all advise next time with the clothing. I just worry about exposure to these chemicals like deet and promethrin b/c it doesn't help the immune system s I would be very cautious with them. My other son went camping recently and also got a tickbite the first day and went on doxy. Luckily sun wasn't an issue b/c it rained everyday for his trip :-). Not too many great choices but I would send doxy or ceftin in case of a tickbite. Not sure if it matters if you double the dose of azithromycin. I'd ask the llmd if you can. Oh and Dr Kenneth Singleton who wrote the book The Lyme Disease Solution says that deet may attract ticks. He recommends the avon products and says the us military uses them. I also bought some long underwear type clothing that is called body armor or something like that which is made for hunters. It is a tight fitting long sleeved top and leggings that the insects cannot bite through. Again not sure if the kids used it. Tell the camp to save the tick for you. I'm amazed that schools do not do in every case. I am the only parent who sent doxy as far as I know. After the last camping trip where my son got bitten two students developed lyme within six weeks of the camp. Your friend's daughter might be helped by energetic testing to speed up the diagnosis. We have done a lot of that here and its very reliable. We have someone who uses an Assyra machine that can test for lyme and coinfections plus test which remedy or antibiotic works best. She will test for all lyme infections for 99 (includes a 30 minute phone call to go over results). My llmd says that 9 out of 10 times the machine is correct when diagnosing lyme. He gets a lot of the patients who test positive. PM me if you want her name. You just send a saliva sample so no need to travel.

[lyme_mom]

Like the stick - I might have to pick up one for myself. Deet needs to be washed off after activities. Will she be taking daily showers at camp every day?

 

Also, www.tickencounter.org shows videos on how to apply permethrin to clothing with the spraying/soaking method. Lot of other great information as well.

 

Yeah...I found the stick at REI. I'll use it on myself and non-pandas dd (mosquitos love us) when we are in buggy areas (travel/camping). I agree with you about not having a child apply deet (without a parent to supervise or do it). Also, I cannot be sure that she will take daily showers!

 

You may find this interesting from http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1029&message=28191009

 

Permethrin has an excito-repelllent effect and is also a toxicant. Thus it can repel but also kill the insect. Yes Permethrin can be broken down quickly in the body but some people can develop allergic skin irritation when in contact with the chemical; if this happens, stop using it. Permethrin comes in various forms but it can be purchased in most countries from outdoor stores where it is often sold for impregnating mosquito bed nets. Some countries have Permethrin in spray tins; Permanone is the US was one such product. In South Africa they have another synthetic pyrethroid, flumethrin, available in an aerosol. I have used this product in Australia while undertaking tick risk assessments and have never recieved a tick bite! Without repellents I have had to remove more than 300 larval ticks from myself.

 

In terms of repellents my recommendations are to use either a DEET or Picaridin product on the skin; it is better to use creams rather than sprays as they can be more thickly applied. You can use DEET/Picaridin sprays on the clothing but be aware thatN DEET can damage nylon based fabrics. Otherwise wash the clothes in permethrin and reapply every 3 or so uses.

 

As to DEET vs Picaridin. DEET has been around for quite some time and when applied according to the label instructions is safe and effective. Tests in our laboratory against mosquitoes have shown that the higher concentrations of DEET provide a longer duration of protection but not greater protection. This means the lower % DEET formulations need to be reapplied, usually at least every two hours.

 

Picaridin was developed in Germany by Bayer as an alternative to DEET. Picaridin has less smell, feels better to put on and has lower mammalian toxicity than DEET, in fact Picaridin is every approved for use on children under 12 months in Europe. If using Picaridin go for the 19% formulation, the 9% was not very effective in trials against ticks.

 

Kind regards

Stephen

We have some experience in this area as my teenage sons have gone on camping trips post lyme disease. I consulted a naturopath who advised that they take astralagus, samento and another one I can't remember that starts with a B that is also a liquid that you drop in water (I will try and remember) before during and after the trip. This naturopath also advised sending a supply of doxy with him should he get a tick bite (interesting that even a dr who doesn't usually use antibiotics wants you to take doxy immediately following a tickbite). My llmd gave me the doxy prescription and I sent it. My son got a tickbite the first day and started doxy. The next day they went on a 6 hour canoe ride and he got burned. When he returned my llmd put him on ceftin b/c of the sun issue. We saved the tick and I sent it to Igenex for the triple testing (Bart, Bab, Borellia) and it was negative. What a hassle it was so I am not too keen on camping. I did not use promethrin or deet (I have read contradictory things about deet). I sent him with natural repellents, the wrist bands that have citronella (quite sure he did not use them :-). I would probably do what you all advise next time with the clothing. I just worry about exposure to these chemicals like deet and promethrin b/c it doesn't help the immune system s I would be very cautious with them. My other son went camping recently and also got a tickbite the first day and went on doxy. Luckily sun wasn't an issue b/c it rained everyday for his trip :-). Not too many great choices but I would send doxy or ceftin in case of a tickbite. Not sure if it matters if you double the dose of azithromycin. I'd ask the llmd if you can. Oh and Dr Kenneth Singleton who wrote the book The Lyme Disease Solution says that deet may attract ticks. He recommends the avon products and says the us military uses them. I also bought some long underwear type clothing that is called body armor or something like that which is made for hunters. It is a tight fitting long sleeved top and leggings that the insects cannot bite through. Again not sure if the kids used it. Tell the camp to save the tick for you. I'm amazed that schools do not do in every case. I am the only parent who sent doxy as far as I know. After the last camping trip where my son got bitten two students developed lyme within six weeks of the camp. Your friend's daughter might be helped by energetic testing to speed up the diagnosis. We have done a lot of that here and its very reliable. We have someone who uses an Assyra machine that can test for lyme and coinfections plus test which remedy or antibiotic works best. She will test for all lyme infections for 99 (includes a 30 minute phone call to go over results). My llmd says that 9 out of 10 times the machine is correct when diagnosing lyme. He gets a lot of the patients who test positive. PM me if you want her name. You just send a saliva sample so no need to travel.

 

Ok A week before camping the naturopathic doctor advised starting my son on Samento and Banderol (start slow and work up to 20 drops twice a day) plus one Lyme plus and 2 astralagus twice a day. He weighed about 110 at the time. My llmd later told me 20 drops a day is the adult dose of Samento but we used the higher dose w no issue. Also I can buy lice shampoo at whole foods (desert something or other) which is apparently excellent for tick prevention. Or you can send peppermint or lavender soap/ shampoo. I sent the natural pepperimint oil liquid soap for use as shampoo and soap. Of course they got tick bites anyway. I'd rather they not go. My son and I developed Lyme after a school camping trip in 2006. In my experience w two schools and their outdoor Ed programs I think most are clueless about the risks of Lyme especially the Gung Ho camping faculty and parents. We learned about it the hard way. Until outdoor Ed programs get smart about Lyme prevention many kids are going to develop Lyme plus unnecessarily.

[philamom]

I like the idea of the pepperment/lavender soap & shampoo. I also read lemon is a great deterrent. I use "Fairy Tales" Rosemary shampoo/conditioner on dd when lice is going through the school. So far she's been lucky - not sure if it's the products. I wonder if the scent would help with ticks as well.

 

Personally, I think I would rather have my child wearing peremethrin treated clothing for a week, than take a chance on a tick bite possibly carrying diseases.

[EAMom]

I like the idea of the pepperment/lavender soap & shampoo. I also read lemon is a great deterrent. I use "Fairy Tales" Rosemary shampoo/conditioner on dd when lice is going through the school. So far she's been lucky - not sure if it's the products. I wonder if the scent would help with ticks as well.

 

Personally, I think I would rather have my child wearing peremethrin treated clothing for a week, than take a chance on a tick bite possibly carrying diseases.

 

 

On clothing, I thought this was very interesting. It really emphasizes the importance of also treating shoes/socks!

 

http://www.tickencounter.org/research/summer_clothing

 

of course my dd likes to wear those short ankle socks, and her sneakers are almost all leather. I did get her some hiking shoes with some fabric, and I'll spray everything anyway.

 

He he...I'll look into the whole foods lice shampoo. Obviously that is something that will need to be put in another bottle if she is taking it to camp and it has the word "lice" on it!

Edited May 25, 2012 by EAMom

[philamom]

I like the idea of the pepperment/lavender soap & shampoo. I also read lemon is a great deterrent. I use "Fairy Tales" Rosemary shampoo/conditioner on dd when lice is going through the school. So far she's been lucky - not sure if it's the products. I wonder if the scent would help with ticks as well.

 

Personally, I think I would rather have my child wearing peremethrin treated clothing for a week, than take a chance on a tick bite possibly carrying diseases.

 

 

On clothing, I thought this was very interesting. It really emphasizes the importance of also treating shoes/socks!

 

http://www.tickencounter.org/research/summer_clothing

 

of course my dd likes to wear those short ankle socks, and her sneakers are almost all leather. I did get her some hiking shoes with some fabric, and I'll spray everything anyway.

 

He he...I'll look into the whole foods lice shampoo. Obviously that is something that will need to be put in another bottle if she is taking it to camp and it has the word "lice" on it!

[philamom]

I'd hate to be the subject in that study, even with treated clothing. I went to a lyme meeting last month that's focus was prevention. The speaker mentioned to spray your shoes/socks with permethrin once a month if spending a lot of time outdoors. When asked if he preferred topical repellents to treated clothing, he said both, but if he could only choose one he would go for the treated clothing. You should use 3 ounces of permethrin per article of clothing (6oz. for pair of socks). He showed a picture of the Sawyer brand (not sure if it makes a difference but it's what I purchased). He also mentioned the insect shield line - the only real difference is it last for 70 washes, but is pricey compared to doing it yourself.

 

The website shows videos how to treat your clothing (not much to it). Also, Sawyer has a how-to video on their website as well.

[EAMom]

I'd hate to be the subject in that study, even with treated clothing. I went to a lyme meeting last month that's focus was prevention. The speaker mentioned to spray your shoes/socks with permethrin once a month if spending a lot of time outdoors. When asked if he preferred topical repellents to treated clothing, he said both, but if he could only choose one he would go for the treated clothing. You should use 3 ounces of permethrin per article of clothing (6oz. for pair of socks). He showed a picture of the Sawyer brand (not sure if it makes a difference but it's what I purchased). He also mentioned the insect shield line - the only real difference is it last for 70 washes, but is pricey compared to doing it yourself.

 

The website shows videos how to treat your clothing (not much to it). Also, Sawyer has a how-to video on their website as well.

 

Yeah, the treated clothing sounds good esp if there are ticks in your yard, and it's not an occasional camping thing... Since its good for 70 washes. I wish they had more of a selection of styles, and I also hate the thought of buying stuff online and then having to send it all back when it doesn't fit right!

[philamom]

I'd hate to be the subject in that study, even with treated clothing. I went to a lyme meeting last month that's focus was prevention. The speaker mentioned to spray your shoes/socks with permethrin once a month if spending a lot of time outdoors. When asked if he preferred topical repellents to treated clothing, he said both, but if he could only choose one he would go for the treated clothing. You should use 3 ounces of permethrin per article of clothing (6oz. for pair of socks). He showed a picture of the Sawyer brand (not sure if it makes a difference but it's what I purchased). He also mentioned the insect shield line - the only real difference is it last for 70 washes, but is pricey compared to doing it yourself.

 

The website shows videos how to treat your clothing (not much to it). Also, Sawyer has a how-to video on their website as well.

 

Yeah, the treated clothing sounds good esp if there are ticks in your yard, and it's not an occasional camping thing... Since its good for 70 washes. I wish they had more of a selection of styles, and I also hate the thought of buying stuff online and then having to send it all back when it doesn't fit right!

Yeah, the children's selection isn't great (esp. for girls!). And the socks that have the insect logo on them - what were they thinking (what kid wants to advertise they're wearing special socks). Also, I've had some inconsistencies with sizing in the clothing I ordered for my husband. It does stink when you have to pay to ship it back to exchange the size. I think at places like Rei, Dicks, Orvis, you can return at the store even if it was ordered online.