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Pinkish Skin Tone - Goes White with Pressure


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Just in the last couple of weeks, we've been noticing DS15 has something going on with his skin or, more precisely, just underneath his skin. It's not a sunburn or other sun reaction, but the skin on his limbs has a pinkish hue, the kind that when you press down on it with your fingertips, the pressure point goes white and then bounces back up and resumes its pinkish hue. It's a little startling, actually. There's no pain associated with it.

 

Is this fluid retention? Is this some form of edema? The only change we've made in his regimen recently is switching from fish oil to EPO, so I can't link it to a reaction to anything specific. And it seems to stick with him.

 

Anybody seen this before? Any of you science-y or medical-y types have any thoughts?

 

Thanks!

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Well, since I posted, I've been poking around on the internet, looking for some answers.

 

It's not a rash in the conventional sense . . . all-over color, no raised bumps or anything. And again, if you wrap your hand around his arm and squeeze, when you release your hand, there's a white handprint where your fingers were which fades quickly, sort of like those liquid crystal mats that change color by body temperature, and a handprint on it starts out bright reddish and yellowish when you first lift your hand, and then it rapidly shifts to cooler colors like green and blue before it fades altogether?

 

It is only his arms, and mostly from the elbow to the hand, though it's a little evident between the elbow and shoulder, too. I checked his legs and ankles . . . really nothing notable there. And nothing on his trunk, face, neck, etc. It's not causing him any pain or anything like that; it's just so . . . well . . . noticable!

 

The Mayo Clinic site seems to suggest it's some minor form of edema, but why it is showing up now, I can't figure. Unless it's some sort of cumulative effect?

 

Among the causes of edema, Mayo lists some medications, including "drugs that open blood vessels, calcium channel blockers, non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs, estrogens and certain diabetes medications." DS takes lamictal, which is a sodium channel blocker, but he's been taking it for quite some time, and we've not increased his dose or anything. Plus, that's sodium, not calcium. :wacko:

 

My plan right now is to go pick up some fish oil tomorrow and switch him back from the EPO to that, just in case there's some sort of odd combination going on with him, since that's the only change we've made for him in the last couple of weeks. Then Monday, if he's looking the same, I'll call his doctor.

 

Thanks for your thoughts! Still open to any other ideas or thoughts!

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Well, since I posted, I've been poking around on the internet, looking for some answers.

 

It's not a rash in the conventional sense . . . all-over color, no raised bumps or anything. And again, if you wrap your hand around his arm and squeeze, when you release your hand, there's a white handprint where your fingers were which fades quickly, sort of like those liquid crystal mats that change color by body temperature, and a handprint on it starts out bright reddish and yellowish when you first lift your hand, and then it rapidly shifts to cooler colors like green and blue before it fades altogether?

 

It is only his arms, and mostly from the elbow to the hand, though it's a little evident between the elbow and shoulder, too. I checked his legs and ankles . . . really nothing notable there. And nothing on his trunk, face, neck, etc. It's not causing him any pain or anything like that; it's just so . . . well . . . noticable!

 

The Mayo Clinic site seems to suggest it's some minor form of edema, but why it is showing up now, I can't figure. Unless it's some sort of cumulative effect?

 

Among the causes of edema, Mayo lists some medications, including "drugs that open blood vessels, calcium channel blockers, non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs, estrogens and certain diabetes medications." DS takes lamictal, which is a sodium channel blocker, but he's been taking it for quite some time, and we've not increased his dose or anything. Plus, that's sodium, not calcium. :wacko:

 

My plan right now is to go pick up some fish oil tomorrow and switch him back from the EPO to that, just in case there's some sort of odd combination going on with him, since that's the only change we've made for him in the last couple of weeks. Then Monday, if he's looking the same, I'll call his doctor.

 

Thanks for your thoughts! Still open to any other ideas or thoughts!

 

Nancy, DS16 has had something like this for years. I've always thought it was flushing, but honestly, it does seem to get worse when he's getting sick. Sometimes, it seems to be associated with what I call a "strep rash", so I do think he's fighting something when it gets worse. BTW, he has had scarlet fever repeatedly, but I know what you're talking about with the pinkish tint, because the bumps that go along with scarlet fever aren't always there. Edema does sort of make sense, because he does look puffier at times. Let me know if you figure it out, and I'll let you know if I do. BTW, DS is also taking Lamictal.

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Sorry Nancy, no huge insight from me. The only thought I had, given the location on the lower arms, is some sort of photosensitivity. Is something he's taking - or some combo - related to increased sensitivity to sun? I didn't see any photosensitivity associated with EPO when I did a quick search, but agree with you. Discontinuing that would be a logical first step. Would a sodium channel blocker cause endema? Seems odd it would be localized to the arms if this were the case. Very odd...

 

Hope it's something benign!

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Of course, when taking lamictal, one would automatically think of Stevens-Johnson Syndrome or toxic epidermal necrolysis, but this doesn't sound like that. Still, I would be more cautious on that med and see a doctor if your DS still has it after you switch him back to fish oil.

 

Two years ago my daughter had a rash on her chest that looked like first time out sunburn. When you pushed on it it also went white. Then it went to other parts of her body. Separately she had a round, nasty looking rash on her back that looked more like a bug bite that got infected. When Dr. L saw it she thought it was Pityriasis rosea. It did take 4-6 weeks to go away and I think she was right.

 

Over the past two years we've had other rashes that I think were due to Bartonella -- streaks, red blotchiness, etc. Also little pin pricks, which could be Babesia.

 

I always take photos of our rashes with my iPhone just in case I need to look back on it or share it to a doctor. May want to take two photos -- one with and without hand print.

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Of course, when taking lamictal, one would automatically think of Stevens-Johnson Syndrome or toxic epidermal necrolysis, but this doesn't sound like that. Still, I would be more cautious on that med and see a doctor if your DS still has it after you switch him back to fish oil.

 

Two years ago my daughter had a rash on her chest that looked like first time out sunburn. When you pushed on it it also went white. Then it went to other parts of her body. Separately she had a round, nasty looking rash on her back that looked more like a bug bite that got infected. When Dr. L saw it she thought it was Pityriasis rosea. It did take 4-6 weeks to go away and I think she was right.

 

Over the past two years we've had other rashes that I think were due to Bartonella -- streaks, red blotchiness, etc. Also little pin pricks, which could be Babesia.

 

I always take photos of our rashes with my iPhone just in case I need to look back on it or share it to a doctor. May want to take two photos -- one with and without hand print.

 

 

Wow...I didn't' know that Babesia has little pin pricks as a rash. That totally explains my DS's little dots. We already suspected babesia, anyway, and we have been treating for bart and erlichiosis for almost 2 years (he has the bart rash, too.) Seems like everyday I learn something new from all of you! I don't know what I would do without this site :wub:

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Go to http://www.drjoneskids.com/ and click on Babesiosis Rashes under Rashes.

 

Of course, when taking lamictal, one would automatically think of Stevens-Johnson Syndrome or toxic epidermal necrolysis, but this doesn't sound like that. Still, I would be more cautious on that med and see a doctor if your DS still has it after you switch him back to fish oil.

 

Two years ago my daughter had a rash on her chest that looked like first time out sunburn. When you pushed on it it also went white. Then it went to other parts of her body. Separately she had a round, nasty looking rash on her back that looked more like a bug bite that got infected. When Dr. L saw it she thought it was Pityriasis rosea. It did take 4-6 weeks to go away and I think she was right.

 

Over the past two years we've had other rashes that I think were due to Bartonella -- streaks, red blotchiness, etc. Also little pin pricks, which could be Babesia.

 

I always take photos of our rashes with my iPhone just in case I need to look back on it or share it to a doctor. May want to take two photos -- one with and without hand print.

 

 

Wow...I didn't' know that Babesia has little pin pricks as a rash. That totally explains my DS's little dots. We already suspected babesia, anyway, and we have been treating for bart and erlichiosis for almost 2 years (he has the bart rash, too.) Seems like everyday I learn something new from all of you! I don't know what I would do without this site :wub:

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Circulation problem? Could the EPO influence that? I don't know what EPO is.

 

EPO is evening primrose oil; it's supposed to be a non-inflammatory Omega 6, since some with methylation issues are supposed to do better on Omega 6's than Omega 3's or 9's. But honestly, my DS was doing well on fish oil, and I switched to EPO a couple of weeks ago, just to see if it would give him another little push in the right direction.

 

Since EPO is anti-inflammatory, I do wonder if it was just that final little push that's causing this minor edema? We're switching back to fish oil today, so I'll let you guys know what happens as a result.

 

And Nancy D, good idea about the photos . . . will do!

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Hi Nancy,

 

Not sure if this is the same thing at all, but my daughter has a intermittent look to her skin that is called modeling. Dr. M. says that she see's this alot in kids with autoimmune illness. She said in most cases when you warm the skin it would go away but in the case of autoimmunity, even when warmed, the skin still has the same purplish web look to it. I'm not sure if this is what is going on with your Son but autoimmune issues cause strange reactions sometimes. Keep us informed.

 

Dedee

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Dedee

 

What you describe is called 'Livedo Reticularis' it is swelling of the medium blood vessel. Two of my children suffer from it severely... its over their entire bodies all the way up to their cheeks even when warm. They have gestational/congenital Lyme Disease along with other TBIs and chronic infections. One thing I noticed from old photos is the rash was present days after their birth. Unfortunately, I had no idea what it was at the time. Individuals with Lyme often have thick or hypercoagulated blood and I envision the Livedo Reticularis to be a by product of thick blood or possibly biofilms. I have no idea if my perspective is correct but here is an interesting blurb on thick blood: http://www.jigsawhealth.com/resources/thick-blood-symptoms

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I think this is what my DD16 has on her face. Very similar to what Dedee describes. Wendy, remember the photo I sent you over a year ago? We thought it was a Bartonella rash, although it was different than the streak marks she had on her body. This is more blotchy. Wasn't it similar to what one or two of your kids have? It's been well over a year since starting treatment for Bartonella and she still has it.

 

Any way to get rid of it? It drives my daughter crazy!

 

Dedee

 

What you describe is called 'Livedo Reticularis' it is swelling of the medium blood vessel. Two of my children suffer from it severely... its over their entire bodies all the way up to their cheeks even when warm. They have gestational/congenital Lyme Disease along with other TBIs and chronic infections. One thing I noticed from old photos is the rash was present days after their birth. Unfortunately, I had no idea what it was at the time. Individuals with Lyme often have thick or hypercoagulated blood and I envision the Livedo Reticularis to be a by product of thick blood or possibly biofilms. I have no idea if my perspective is correct but here is an interesting blurb on thick blood: http://www.jigsawhealth.com/resources/thick-blood-symptoms

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I don't see anything that says you can get Livedo Reticularis on the face (usually on the limbs) but here are treatments according to a site at http://www.lookgreat-loseweight-savemoney.com/livedo-reticularis.html:

 

1) Exercise - If you have reticularis, it might help to get more exercise. Livedo reticularis is a disorder that brings vessels close to the skin and makes the skin look red and blotchy. Exercise may help alleviate the symptoms if you are lethargic and don't move a lot. If it doesn't help relieve your symptoms, at least it will raise your endorphins and make you feel better temporarily!

 

2) Try an Aspirin everyday if you aren't currently taking medications that thin blood. - Aspirin helps thin the blood. Reticularis has been discussed by Dr. Weil, whom I really admire. He calls this condition 'sticky blood'.

 

If aspirin doesn't help, then you may need a blood thinning drug such as Coumadin. See your physician either way though. Another blood thinner, given to me from a viewer, is possibly black strap molasses. Also drinking apple cider vinegar mixed with water everyday helps to clean toxins from your blood and may help with the symptoms.

 

 

3) Take Natural Fish Oil - Fish oil taken daily also thins the blood and could be a great help, just like aspirin. If you can't take aspirin for any reason, fish oil is a viable alternative. I take a soft gel that is a mixture of Flax, Fish, and Borage oil together. Olive oil is also an alternative. (Make sure it's cold pressed!) These oils are high in omega fatty acids.

 

Omega-3 fatty acids are important building blocks of all cell membranes, signaling pathways and neurological systems. They play an important role in many functions in the body and are essential for good health. Omega's also help with depression.

 

Reports of depression with this disorder are sparse, but I have to assume that it would be a problem with most people who are suffering from Livedo Reticularis. I know I got really depressed when mine was full blown. I can only imagine how other's might feel if their condition is worse than mine.

 

4) Get a Massage - Getting a full body massage can increase circulation and promote relaxation. It can also reduce anxiety and stress and improve delivery of oxygen and nutrients to the body.

 

5) Take a Drink - Alcohol also thins the blood, so maybe having a drink a day will help keep the condition (and the doctor) away! Dark red wine's have the most nutritional benefit and also help to warm the blood.

 

6) Take Ginger Root, Garlic, or Cayenne - Ginger root, Garlic, and Cayenne help to 'warm' the blood, and that helps circulation. Follow manufacturers instructions for dosage, or increase it. You cannot OD on these supplements.

 

7) Try Glutathione - Glutathione is a tripeptide that is made in the liver in abundance when we're young. As we age, the production goes down, down, down. Glutathione has been called the 'super antioxidant'. It may be the ONE antioxidant that makes all the other ones work well. If you can tolerate it, there are two viable alternatives. One is Selenium and the other is NAC (N-Acetyl-L-Cysteine). Please refer to my vitamin supplements page for a list of vitamins I suggest. More information about selenium and NAC can be found in those vitamin pages. Both of these supplements help support your liver and help build more Gluathione! It is extremely important to your health, to keep Glutathione levels high! (Especially with aging!)

 

8) Steam Bath - Have you tried a steam bath? I have a portable steam bath in my home. I bought it when I had my massage therapy office. The cost is around $2000, however you can find smaller portable units for much less.

 

 

If you can afford one, I suggest one highly. Steam baths really help to renew and relax you and increase circulation. There are so many more benefits of a steam bath!

 

Benefits:

 

• Improves circulation and metabolism.

 

• Detoxifies and deep-cleanses the entire body.

 

• Relieves pains and discomforts associated with arthritis.

 

• Boosts immune system by improving white blood cell formation.

 

 

9) Body Cleanse - I did a nutritional health cleanse to see if it would help. It didn't help the appearance of livedo reticularis, but I felt better afterward. But it's a great way to clean the toxins out of your body. I am always looking for natural holistic ways to improve it. There are several types of cleanses available. Toxins are prevalent in the world in which we live. If you feel toxic, you just might want to try one too. Acai Cleanse and Master Cleanse Kit have shown great results for most people.

 

10) Some of you who have filled out the questionnaire, have told me that there doctor suggested an infection in your body of some kind. I am presently taking Olive Leaf Exract just to see if it has any benefits for me. Olive leaf extract gets rid of intestinal-parasites, and also has antiviral and antibiotic effects in your body. (Plus it's dirt cheap to buy!) It certainly has been touted for thousands of years, dating back to the beginnings of Traditional Chinese Medicine.

 

11) - Some people with autoimmune disorders [which I fully suspect livedo reticularis to be], have shown good results with Acai Berry products. Acai is a dark purple berry indigenous to the Amazon rainforest, and a nutritious and powerful fruit, valued for its rich nutrients. With a high ORAC (oxygen-radical absorbance capacity) value, it has twice that of blueberries. Acai could be considered the berry of choice for good health. It won't work for everyone, but it's worth a shot. It's inexpensive to buy, so it won't break the bank. Sambazon Acai Power Scoop is a one of the best Acai products on the market. Many people who take Acai reported feeling much better than they did before, with some symptoms not present anymore in some people.

 

 

I think this is what my DD16 has on her face. Very similar to what Dedee describes. Wendy, remember the photo I sent you over a year ago? We thought it was a Bartonella rash, although it was different than the streak marks she had on her body. This is more blotchy. Wasn't it similar to what one or two of your kids have? It's been well over a year since starting treatment for Bartonella and she still has it.

 

Any way to get rid of it? It drives my daughter crazy!

 

Dedee

 

What you describe is called 'Livedo Reticularis' it is swelling of the medium blood vessel. Two of my children suffer from it severely... its over their entire bodies all the way up to their cheeks even when warm. They have gestational/congenital Lyme Disease along with other TBIs and chronic infections. One thing I noticed from old photos is the rash was present days after their birth. Unfortunately, I had no idea what it was at the time. Individuals with Lyme often have thick or hypercoagulated blood and I envision the Livedo Reticularis to be a by product of thick blood or possibly biofilms. I have no idea if my perspective is correct but here is an interesting blurb on thick blood: http://www.jigsawhealth.com/resources/thick-blood-symptoms

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