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Hi - our dd8 has had PANDAS/PITANDS for at least 4 yrs (dx 2008). For the last 2 years, her flares have been generally low but fairly frequent and she hasn't achieved 100% baseline for the last 2 years but is fairly close at 95% ish between flares.

 

She is reading 5 grades ahead, is good at writing, science etc. She seems to have no issue learning facts in subjects other than math. She gets the concepts of math well enough but is slipping behind, seemingly 'cos she can't seem to learn the math partners eg just KNOW that 7+4 = 11 (she has to count on) and can't seem to get the times tables. It isn't an issue for me. I feel they have way more than they should have to deal with anyway and believe, and have told her so, that you can't be great at everything.

 

However, she is feeling the discrepancy. She says she isn't confident, she can't concentrate for math at school (but does concentrate well for other subjects) and it is stressing her. She says she is one of the slowest in her class.

 

 

Is this a PANDAS thing?

 

Can just 1 subject suffer?

 

Have other parent seen this with math alone?

 

If it is PANDAS related, is there anything specific we can do to support her other than treating the PANDAS?

 

Thanks :)

Edited by dut
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I have long suspected that this is PANDAS related. DS is two grade levels ahead in math, and a top student. He is almost 14 and does not know how to add 7+6. He does not know his times tables. He also cannot alphabetize. One summer, he volunteered at the library. Re-shelving books was ridiculous. He had to start at the beginning of the alphabet and sing the ABC song quietly under his breath every time so that he knew where in the alphabet a book starting with the letter P should go.

 

For the math, we were finally able to get him a 504 in 4th grade. It allowed him to complete (with no calculator) some addition and subtraction fact worksheets (mostly by counting on his fingers) and a blank multiplication times table (by singing the 3 song from the old schoolhouse rock, etc). Then he was permitted to consult these during tests. That was the only way he was able to complete timed tests during a class period.

 

Now that he is in geometry, they are permitted to use calculators for everything. No way he could survive without it. He does simple one digit addition and subtraction on it when doing his homework. I wish we could find a solution. DS's OCD symptoms have been in full remission for a month. No change in math fact abilities.

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I agree. And the problem your DD is having with "just knowing" simple math, like 7+4=11, seems pretty classic, too. For our DS, that was sort of the quintessential OCD doubting. All the more insidiuous because it was making him doubt himself at his best subject. :angry:

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thanks for the responses :) we'll try some extra support over the summer. She has had issues in the past with speed for writing but when we focus our efforts and get her really confident then she picks up.

 

Momwith - yes, I have wondered if the PANDAS/cognitive ability thing is being made worse and thus noticeable for her 'cos of OCD/anxiety. I read a good description in a Tamar Chansky book where she says it like this (my parapphrasing 'cos I can't quite remember it)

 

I think I am less able to cope or handle things than I actually am/I think the problem is greater than it is.

 

Sorry if this is obvious to folks but it really struck a chord with me and although it wasn't truly new as an idea (I am very much like this myself, only taking on things that I know I am good at), I hadn't quite framed it like that, and my dd and some of her school stuff suddenly made more sense.

 

Thanks again, we'll keep plugging away.

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Yes, my son went from honors classes and all a/b's to agonizing for HOURS over a few algebra problems that he had already known and been able to do. We had to have him removed from his honors math class because of it. He said he didn't know why, it was just too hard and his brain didn't know how to do it anymore.

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We've been through the "math meltdown" thing a couple of times now, and we did come up with a couple of strategies that seemed to help, at least a little. For instance, we:

 

- had DS copy the one problem that he needed to work on out of his book or notebook, onto a clean sheet of paper. It seemed as though, sometimes, all the other stuff visible on the page just served to confuse him and make him more anxious. By separating out that single problem, he was generally less intimidated.

 

-- sat by DS and had him talk through/explain the solution to the problem to DH or me as he went about solving it, one step at a time. Somehow, explaining it to one of us, and talking out loud seemed to help his processing. Then doing the math became a little bit easier, he became more successful, and as a result, his anxiety took a step down, too.

 

Good luck!

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Momwith - oops - my dd has been copying a problem from her homework into a little book and then solving it. I (stoooopid) told her not to, thinking it was an avoidance type thing. Huh, guess it's apology and "mummy's not so right" time :)

 

Thanks

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My 9 y/o daughter was great at math, in the math club etc before struck with PANDAS. Then she suddenly could not be in the math club anymore! It was so strange she would just get SO anxious about numbers and math, etc. Right before she was at her absolute worst she would repeat things like "Give me a math problem! If I can't solve a math problem I am not smart anymore!" And I mean repeat and freak out!!! Then this changed to number phobia :( We could not say certain numbers or it would make her shriek and have her "bad thoughts". Once again I have to say these poor brave kids!!!! Each one of them are fighters and braver at this young age than most people EVER have to be!!!

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This is our third full year of school since our daughter's PANDAS diagnosis. She is currently in the 5th grade and was diagnosed in January of 2nd grade. Now that we have three full years of MAP testing under out belts, I can definitely see a pattern. The MAP tests are tests that our school district uses to determine our children's knowledge and progress in various subjects. They are computerized tests and are given three times a year (fall, winter, spring). When I sit down and look at the line graph of her math MAP test results over the last three years, there is definitely a pattern. Scores are displayed on a line graph. Anytime that she has been in an exacerbation of symptoms during testing, the line drops dramatically. Anytime, she is symptom free, it shoots almost straight upward. They use these tests in our school as one of the determining pieces for honors math in middle school. Due to her test scores in the fall (taken when she was reacting to her classmates who had received flumist), she was denied honors math for 6th grade next year. Her score dipped to the bottom of the "river" where the majority of kids are. She received a 209. Her winter score during a time of no exacerbation jumped to 229 and her spring score during mild exacerbation jumped to 240 which would qualify her for honors as you must have 234 for entry. I have filed an appeal with the middle school in hope of admittance to honors as the teachers there are better and she needs a math teacher with good teaching skills. I find myself often reteaching what was taught in school. As you mentioned, memorizing basic facts is difficult for them. We'll be drilling multiplication facts over the summer along with basic skills so that she doesn't lose ground without review. These kids are capable of so much, it amazes me! They are resilient and wise beyond their years!

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After 3 years with PANDAS , My dd is 14 and she has real issue's with math's,

Applying formula's and how do to straight forward question's does not seem to bother her,

but problem solving and analytical thinking is all too hard.

It seem's she spends twice as long as anyone else to complete home work and never finishes a test in the allotted time

As much as we as parents try and remove this pressure off her - she puts double the amount of pressure on herself which just exaggerates the anxiety.

I am not sure whether to show her this thread as to make her realise that other children are experiencing difficulties as well with math’s to maybe give

her some confidence back and show her that it may be related.

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After 3 years with PANDAS , My dd is 14 and she has real issue's with math's,

Applying formula's and how do to straight forward question's does not seem to bother her,

but problem solving and analytical thinking is all too hard.

It seem's she spends twice as long as anyone else to complete home work and never finishes a test in the allotted time

As much as we as parents try and remove this pressure off her - she puts double the amount of pressure on herself which just exaggerates the anxiety.

I am not sure whether to show her this thread as to make her realise that other children are experiencing difficulties as well with math’s to maybe give

her some confidence back and show her that it may be related.

 

Can you request a 504 for your DD so that she gets extra time on tests (like comes in after school or during lunch or study hall if she doesn't get the chance to finish during class)? Would your DD take advantage of that, if it was available, or would she be too embarrassed? DS has a 504 and is permitted extra time on tests. As long as they are able to use calculators, he rarely needs the extra time. But he likes feeling that he has options.

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Hi Lozsdad,

Bigmighty is right on the money. In Oz we don't have a 504 exactly but it is possible to get special provisions such as extra time in tests/exams etc, including use of lap tops etc, depending on the type of issue. A good educational psychologist should be able to do testing for processing issues etc (eg. WISC test.) We've been through this so can recommend one if you are interested.

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