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Zinc and Anorexia


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This guy says the ideal ratio is 0.7:1

http://www.drkaslow.com/html/zinc-copper_imbalances.html

 

Copper/Zinc Imbalance

 

The human body has an elaborate system for managing and regulating the amount of key trace metals such as zinc, copper, iron, manganese, chromium, etc. circulating in blood and stored in cells. Nutrient metals from our diet are (1) incorporated into blood if blood levels are depleted, (2) transported into cells if cellular levels are inadequate, or (3) excreted if blood and cell levels are sufficient or overloaded. When this system fails to function properly, abnormal levels of trace metals can develop in the brain and other parts of the body. One of the most common trace-metal imbalances is elevated copper and depressed zinc (the optimal plasma or serum ratio is 0.70 - 1.00). The ratio of copper to zinc is clinically more important than the concentration of either of these trace metals.

 

Copper and zinc are regarded as neurotransmitters and are in high concentrations in brain hippocampus. As a result elevated copper and depressed zinc have been associated with hyperactivity, attention deficit disorders, behavior disorders, and depression. Also, many of those labeled with autism and paranoid schizophrenia have elevated blood copper levels in addition to other biochemical imbalances.

 

It has been reported (HRI-PTC) that 80% of hyperactive patients and 68% of behavior-disordered patients have elevated blood copper levels. Their families often report worsened hyperactivity/behavior after consuming vitamin supplements or cereals rich in copper. In many cases, symptoms may be provoked by consuming chocolate (rich in copper) or food dyes rich in hydrazines, which lower blood zinc levels.

 

Many high-copper patients (often labeled "depressives") experience severe PMS, are intolerant to estrogen, and may have a family history of postpartum depression. This group also has a high incidence of acne, eczema, sensitive skin, sunburn, headaches, poor immune function, and white spots under their fingernails.

 

Here's something on the relationship between zinc/copper/C

http://www.natural-health-information-centre.com/copper.html

It advises to not supplement both zinc and copper at the same time, as they compete for the same receptor sites. High C can deplete copper. However, copper is needed for C to do its job. As with everything, it's about balance.

 

I don't know what to say about your labs. DS had a bad zinc deficiency, saw great improvements from Core, yet his copper was never high. Sometimes it makes no sense. But the zinc/b6 changed everything for him. I see zinc as a supplement for acne in lots of sites. Hopefully you'll be able to get professional words of wisdom to sort this all out.

Edited by LLM
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LLM- thanks for the info. I saw Jarrow has a supplement that is 15mg zinc plus 1 mg copper- that looks like perfect dosing for kids (to start).

 

I was about to buy these, but stopped myself, and am thinking out loud. I (like everyone else) have a cabinet full of unused supplements. We currently do none, as I haven't felt that any really did anything.

 

So I am just wondering- If a child has certain "issues" that are triggered by pandas, and if when the child is "healthy" these issues are not there- would these supplements work?

 

My little one is picky always. But, when healthy she eats: tons of veggies, salad with dressing, yogurt, kefir, fruit, whole grain pastas, cheeses. She, thankfully, likes a lot of healthy food, and a lot of what she won't eat: pizza, meat, etc- is not actually that healthy. The problem is when pandas strikes, almost exclusively after illness, she will, for example, stop liking yogurt and pasta. This ends up leaving a huge hole in her diet, and sometimes more things go. With treatment (like steroids) this resolves, and she goes back to her baseline of eating, sometimes however a couple months have passed with this very limited eating.

 

Anyway- I think I will hold myself back from adding another $9 supplement from the cabinet (just ordered her a good multi, which I haven't started yet- so cannot make changes right now anyway) and watch this thread.

 

So- parents- please report back with your results :)

 

here's a list of foods that are high in zinc...a lot of these foods are (not counting fortified cereals) are red meat! http://nutritiondata.self.com/foods-000124000000000000000-1.html?

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Thought it may be of interest that my son was a binge eater. Since starting Zithromax and zinc he is not binging any more. It's been nearly 4 weeks. I started both on the same day so I can not say which is helping, but I find it interesting....he even says he no longer has the urge and "doesn't even think about it".

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I looked up my girls' labs. They are as follows:

dd12Copper= 77 (L). Range: 87-182 Zinc= 80. Range 25-148 Ratio: Cu/Zn= .96

dd8Copper= 79 (L) Range: 117-181 Zinc= 70. Range: 48-129 Ratio Cu/Zn= 1.13

So neither girl makes that .7 ratio mark.

Can others chime in with their children's levels? Perhaps the ratio barometer is different for children??? Immune system dysfunction is a symptom of both low and high copper. Low copper is described as "rare" like some pandas we all know. It is interesting the normal range for zinc runs much lower mcg/dL than copper yet the ratio quoted is flipped???

Edited by JAG10
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Found a Penn State study looking at copper/zinc ratios in ASD. Reading in the purpose, a top level of 1.25 is reported for children 3-8.

Evaluation and Treatment of Copper/Zinc Imbalance in Children With AutismThe recruitment status of this study is unknown because the information has not been verified recently.Verified April 2007 by Penn State University. Recruitment status was Recruiting

First Received on May 12, 2006. Last Updated on April 18, 2007 History of ChangesSponsor:Penn State UniversityCollaborator:Thrasher Research Fund

Information provided by:Penn State UniversityClinicalTrials.gov Identifier:NCT00325572

triangle.gif PurposeThere are two phases to the study. The first will examine serum copper and zinc levels and copper/zinc ratio in children (ages 3-8) who have autism and compare them to levels from same sex and age children who are developing typically. The hypothesis is that there is a significant difference in the copper/zinc ratio between young children who have autism and their typically developing peers.

 

The second phase of the study will evaluate the effect of dietary supplementation using zinc and vitamin C for 16 weeks on selected symptoms of autism. Children with autism will be enrolled on the basis of copper/zinc ratios greater than 2.0, and as determined to be statistically higher than typically developing children. Measurements of serum copper, zinc and unbound copper will be obtained prior to, at the mid-point and end of the trial. Those children whose ratios have not fallen below 1.25, the top of thecurrently recognized range will have the zinc and vitamin C doses adjusted for the duration of the trial. Detailed evaluation of language skills, and a variety of behaviors will be evaluated prior to and after supplementation. The study will be placebo-controlled and double blind. Those children enrolled in the placebo arm will be offered a full trial of supplements at the end of the their participation in the study.

 

The hypothesis to be tested is whether correction of elevated copper to zinc ratios in children with autism can be accomplished by oral supplementation with zinc and vitamin C and if these children show measurable and significant changes in receptive or expressive language or behavioral parameters associated with autism

 

 

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