Zinc and Anorexia

[EAMom]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/17272939/

[Johnsmom]

Interesting. I've read giving zinc to picky eaters can help as well.

[dcmom]

HHhhmm.

 

I am really interested.

 

I have one VERY picky eater, who becomes MUCH pickier when pandas flares. It is actually usually her first symptom that pops up. She is not/has never been anorexic (although she is VERY skinny, and does not see herself that way!), however there are few foods she really likes/eats well, and then when pandas strikes she starts eliminating them because all of a sudden she HATES foods that she typically eats daily!! It becomes very problematic, because she will be hungry but nothing is appealing. I have strategies, but it is still a problem.

 

Has anyone used zinc for this??

[T_Mom]

...and look at this one:

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/2291418/?i=6&from=/17272939/related

 

makes one wonder if in another generation or two we will have it all figured out.

 

Thanks for posting this EAMom, I am going out to get some zinc tomorrow!

[dcmom]

Let me know what type of zinc (brand, etc) you are contemplating....

[EAMom]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/17272939/

 

It also looks like some people are using zinc for acne....kind of a 2 for one there if you have a teenager.

http://www.amazon.com/Zinc-for-Acne-100-Tablets/dp/B000KI6Z7O/ref=pd_sbs_hpc

 

One interesting thing is that zinc is something thay may or may not be in a multi-vit. I bought the kirkland premium performance multi-vitamins (for myself) and it has 15 mg (100% RDA) of zinc. But, other multi-vitamins don't have it (or have a small amount).

 

And, maybe some of these kids need more than 15mg...esp if they are deficient to start with.

[T_Mom]

I am going to dig a little deeper in the articles tomorrow, and determine an amount for our d, will let you know what I find--

having had her w/ the AN counselor and nutritionist, weekly now since December, it really bothers me that neither one of them even suggested the connection, nor recommended this--

wouldn't you think they could do a little professional reading in their spare time! -- leaving it to the parents -- once again

[EAMom]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/17272939/

 

it does look like you want to avoid really high doses:

http://jennifercopley.suite101.com/zinc-helps-prevent-osteoporosis-a145397

Zinc Toxicity

 

Overdosing on zinc can cause stomach cramps, nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, and headaches. Regularly taking doses of zinc that are too high can actually reduce HDL (good) cholesterol and overall immune function, as well as contributing to a variety of other health problems. Adverse effects are associated with long-term daily zinc consumption at levels higher than the established tolerable upper intake level (40 mg for those 19 years of age and older, 34 mg for those aged 14-18, and less for children).

 

Read more at Suite101: Zinc Helps Prevent Osteoporosis: Zinc Through Natural Sources or Supplements Supports Bone Health | Suite101.com http://jennifercopley.suite101.com/zinc-helps-prevent-osteoporosis-a145397#ixzz1u99DSjWy

[Johnsmom]

DS 10 90 lbs takes only 20 mg a day. I've been told to give zinc away from iron. Was also told with young picky eaters to use liquid zinc. If they are deficient it will be tasteless. When it starts to taste like something to them (metal) that is when it is no longer deficient.

 

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/17272939/

 

it does look like you want to avoid really high doses:

http://jennifercopley.suite101.com/zinc-helps-prevent-osteoporosis-a145397

Zinc Toxicity

 

Overdosing on zinc can cause stomach cramps, nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, and headaches. Regularly taking doses of zinc that are too high can actually reduce HDL (good) cholesterol and overall immune function, as well as contributing to a variety of other health problems. Adverse effects are associated with long-term daily zinc consumption at levels higher than the established tolerable upper intake level (40 mg for those 19 years of age and older, 34 mg for those aged 14-18, and less for children).

 

Read more at Suite101: Zinc Helps Prevent Osteoporosis: Zinc Through Natural Sources or Supplements Supports Bone Health | Suite101.com http://jennifercopley.suite101.com/zinc-helps-prevent-osteoporosis-a145397#ixzz1u99DSjWy

[Ozimum]

It's important to get zinc levels checked regularly when supplementing with zinc. Our Biomedical dr recommended zinc for DS (now 18) right from the get go and we have his levels checked regularly and he's doing well.

 

I understand from my Biomed reading that zinc is deficient in our soils so most of us are low (along with Vit D). Zinc is supposed to help protect against colds etc, eczema, gut problems, diabetes and is helpful for acne, anorexia, bulimia, chronic fatigue, depression, moods, paranoia etc in teens. Some indicators of low zinc are white spots on fingernails, inability to taste and smell, poor appetite, tendency for wounds to take a long time to heal, eczema...

 

It may also be worth checking zinc levels against copper. Dr Bill Walsh talks about this...can explain alot!

[LNN]

I've posted about this book before- for anyone dealing with AN symptoms, I think this book has some great insights into zinc deficiency and AN - and how the deficiency can come first and trigger the AN - "Answers to Anorexia" by Dr James Greenblatt http://www.jamesgreenblattmd.com/ Greenblatt is a professor at Tufts and has a biomedical psychiatric practice outside of Boston.

 

Johnsmom - in the book, Greenblatt advocates the taste test you describe. If a zinc/water solution has no taste, you're very deficient. If it has a strong metalic taste, you don't need supplementation. I have his instructions for doing the test scanned if anyone wants them. I highly recommend the book. He also has a chapter on other supplements that are helpful, along with several published peer-reviewed studies on the link between zinc deficiency and AN.

 

There are a few things to keep in mind -

first, if you are zinc deficient, you may have high copper. The two are often ying/yang. So if you start a zinc supplement and are very deficient, you may have a honeymoon period followed by a herx-like period where your body starts to shed excess copper (resulting in temporary bi-polarish behaviors or cycling).

 

second - zinc is essential not only for the immune system but also for the transsulfuration pathway, which produces glutathione and is the body's sanitation pathway, which clears the body of junk. If you've been zinc deficient and you start supplementing, you'll be re-starting the sanitation conveyor belt. Garbage that's been clogged will start coming out. So this too could result in a temporary herx-like response. You can drop down in zinc dosage and add detox/binders like activated charcoal for a few weeks and then re-build your zinc dosage. Always start slow and low for any supplement and build up over a several weeks.

 

third - over time - like 3-6 months - of zinc supplementation, copper levels will drop. Eventually, you may need to add copper (1mg/day) to keep things in balance if you decide to continue zinc supplementation.

 

fourth - if you have a zinc deficiency, you may have pyroluria, which would also mean you have a B6 (P5P) deficiency and this could be mean life-long supplementation. So something to keep in the back of your mind if you supplement with zinc, stop after a time and then see a regression. It could mean the body isn't able to hold on to zinc without daily high supplementation of both zinc + B6

 

Regarding dosage, it depends on how deficient and whether it's pyroluria-driven. My DS who has pryoluria takes 40mg/day. My DD who was borderline for pyroluria was once as high as 30mg but is now on maintenance 10mg. The zinc helped her but what really made the difference was zinc + tryptophan, which effects the GI tract and stomach acids. Sometimes it's a combo of supplements that's needed.

 

Two good sources of zinc are Bipoure's Core and SourceNatural's multivitamin Advanced One (with or without iron). The SourceNaturals has some pretty high values on other vitamins, and its not cheap. But I swear I can tell the difference when I take it compared to other multi's. I tried cheaper multis but keep coming back to this one. It has roughly the equivalent value of zinc/B6 as 1 Core pill.

[dcmom]

LLM- thanks for the info. I saw Jarrow has a supplement that is 15mg zinc plus 1 mg copper- that looks like perfect dosing for kids (to start).

 

I was about to buy these, but stopped myself, and am thinking out loud. I (like everyone else) have a cabinet full of unused supplements. We currently do none, as I haven't felt that any really did anything.

 

So I am just wondering- If a child has certain "issues" that are triggered by pandas, and if when the child is "healthy" these issues are not there- would these supplements work?

 

My little one is picky always. But, when healthy she eats: tons of veggies, salad with dressing, yogurt, kefir, fruit, whole grain pastas, cheeses. She, thankfully, likes a lot of healthy food, and a lot of what she won't eat: pizza, meat, etc- is not actually that healthy. The problem is when pandas strikes, almost exclusively after illness, she will, for example, stop liking yogurt and pasta. This ends up leaving a huge hole in her diet, and sometimes more things go. With treatment (like steroids) this resolves, and she goes back to her baseline of eating, sometimes however a couple months have passed with this very limited eating.

 

Anyway- I think I will hold myself back from adding another $9 supplement from the cabinet (just ordered her a good multi, which I haven't started yet- so cannot make changes right now anyway) and watch this thread.

 

So- parents- please report back with your results

[LNN]

DCMom,

Since you are blessed with a girl who likes healthy food, I'd think of it this way - during an illness, the body demands a much higher supply of certain things. Zinc would be one of those things, since it's critical for both the immune system and for helping the body eliminate toxins from dying bacteria and oxidation from damaged cells. So two systems placing high demands, combined with your DDs drop in consumption of this nutrient. Sets the stage for a significant deficiency.

 

One option would be to use a multi with a solid dose of zinc and consider supplementing - maybe as high as 40-50 mg during flairs. The supplement would sit in your cabinet but like other things you use in a flair, would be there as needed.

 

As for mine, we aren't fortunate to have healthy taste buds, so daily supplements make a big difference.

[dcmom]

I see what you are saying. I will watch this thread and think about getting the zinc- luckily it is cheap. I am pretty sure her copper is normal (it has been tested)- but I am going to re look at our bloodwork today to be sure.

 

I find myself saying EAT YOUR PIZZA!- and then I say to myself "what am I doing?" During healthy times- it is more of an inconvenience for me-

 

but, during pandas flares- it does become a big problem, she doesn't eat nearly enough calories, and her diet becomes very limited

[JAG10]

A couple quick questions...

 

Does anyone know what the ratio of zinc to copper should be? I read somewhere 6:1, but I think that was with hair sample not serum. Anyone know that ratio?

 

Also, what is the impact of high dose Vitamin C on zinc/copper?

 

A few months ago both of my girls tested low on copper, which I was completely shocked, shocked! It made me throw my hands up with the whole supplementation piece. I understand IVIG can give the one screwy lab results, but they both came out low, match no "low copper" symptoms, only high copper symptoms. I was all ready to join the zinc bandwagon, but with low copper..... I need a professional's help with this. Their labs for b-12/folate were both normal.

Edited May 7, 2012 by JAG10