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Accidental success with Pepcid...High histamine? Methylation?


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I'm getting confused with the thread. some are saying the want to try pepcid. yet you are saying that it might be the cause, as well as vit c? ds12 never had gut issues to use the stuff before, but we started tagament a few months ago and i saw an improvement. my son also has TERRIBLE seasonal allergies. so i think i'm getting some anti inflam properties from it..

 

it's been rough here and my brain is fried. pepcid bad? vit c bad? in tired mom, easy to understand words please.

 

 

No, no. Sorry, I was SUSPECTING that Pepcid and Vit C are HELPING!! Poor choice of words calling them 'suspects'! Sorry!

Reducing the histamine, can reduce the inflammatory response. So, I do think there is a anti-inflam property. So, it sounds like you are seeing it too!

Edited by fightingmom
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I'm headed into a class, but wanted you to know that it's not contradictory. The post you are referencing I copied from online and I'm fairly certain that the person that wrote it an many others are referring to the types of folic acid and b12 that not really bio available but are what's available in most supplements. The key seems to be the methylated forms and getting the pathway in balance so it can be used correctly.

 

 

We use methyl protect from xymogen (have to get it from a participating provider, such as a chiropractor.) It has B-2, B-6, Folate and B-12, but methylated. Chiropractor prescribed it for my children by doing muscle testing.

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ahh, that makes sense....

 

Well, I just wanted to let you know that I admire the depth of your posts. As for me, 8 years of fighting autism have left me brainfogged from stress and PANDAS is "limiting visibility to almost 0 right now". :-) I need a lighthouse.

 

Like I said, I am going to dig deeper into your links on this. Thanks for posting them. Interestingly enough, along with all the immune labs and strep titers. they stuck a histamine level in there too. That will be interesting to see what that comes back as way back when, he was identified as an undermethylator/high histamine kid. that was back during Pfeiffer protocol which is alot like DAN but they had some MT protocol. Bottom line is the only things that have ever helped my son's autism have been immunomodulatory.

 

Kim

 

Hang in! You are doing great. Very interesting that he was labeled as an undermethylator/high histamine kid in the past. Can't wait to see what your new labs show.

 

I had no idea about the augmentin thing you posted earlier, too. Thanks for sharing that. Its been in the back of my head since I read your post..

Edited by fightingmom
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I'm headed into a class, but wanted you to know that it's not contradictory. The post you are referencing I copied from online and I'm fairly certain that the person that wrote it an many others are referring to the types of folic acid and b12 that not really bio available but are what's available in most supplements. The key seems to be the methylated forms and getting the pathway in balance so it can be used correctly.

 

 

We use methyl protect from xymogen (have to get it from a participating provider, such as a chiropractor.) It has B-2, B-6, Folate and B-12, but methylated. Chiropractor prescribed it for my children by doing muscle testing.

 

That sounds very interesting. Have you noticed any improvements? How long have you been using it?

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This is so interesting and yet so confusing to me. Dr. K's protocol after lVlG is to supplement with Folic Acid among other things.

 

I met this man last week who told me he is able to cure GERD or something to that effect. Kind of reminded me of Dr. T,way out thinking ,has proof,yet main stream docs don't want to hear it. I have not had time to dive into his website but will post it here.

 

http://digestivehealthinstitute.org/

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This is so interesting and yet so confusing to me. Dr. K's protocol after lVlG is to supplement with Folic Acid among other things.

 

I met this man last week who told me he is able to cure GERD or something to that effect. Kind of reminded me of Dr. T,way out thinking ,has proof,yet main stream docs don't want to hear it. I have not had time to dive into his website but will post it here.

 

http://digestivehealthinstitute.org/

 

 

i assume the reason for the folic acid with IVIG would have entirely different reasoning and this is not even something on Dr. K's radar. My son has not had IVIG, and i am suggesting he has high histamine levels and is an undermeythlyator. So for some, maybe, folic acid could be activating (but maybe not if methyl form) because it may cause a bigger block in the pathway. Not everyone is this way, so treatments would be different for everyone.

 

Though, I suspect that the reason Dr. K. includes folic acid after IVIG has no bearing on this association. It likely has more to do with the IVIG effects on the body, perhaps folic acid gets depeleted during the treatmen? Or, there are other changes in blood plasma, etc. that require increased folic acid? I have no clue. I do wonder though if supplementing with methyfolate would be better...??

Edited by fightingmom
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Wow, you people are amazing. You all sound way beyond me in your understanding. I love the idea of Pepcid. As I read through this at 9:30 pm I dashed out of my house to the pharmacy. I ran back in the door with Pepcid in hand and said to my 17 year old son. Here this may help with some of your allergy complaints. I did not tell him that I hoped it would make him a more tolerable human to be around. I thought I would just let that one go. From all that has been discussed here it seems that this might be a good answer for at least 2 of my 5 kids. We see Dr. T tomorrow so I will ask for a MTHFR test.

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I suspect Dr K suggests folic acid for its anti-inflammatory effects. That seems to go along w/ the other supplements on his post IVIG list.

 

I am reading this w/ such interest. I suspect my DS has high histamine. He's recently tested positive for environmental allergies and been put on daily Claritin, which has helped. We saw a biomedical dr nearly 6 wks ago and he told me DS would probably need a different form of folic acid but we'd do nothing until the test results were back. The appt is on Tues. I have been very tempted to do a trial of pepsid but I'm forcing myself to wait until after the appt.

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I suspect Dr K suggests folic acid for its anti-inflammatory effects. That seems to go along w/ the other supplements on his post IVIG list.

 

I am reading this w/ such interest. I suspect my DS has high histamine. He's recently tested positive for environmental allergies and been put on daily Claritin, which has helped. We saw a biomedical dr nearly 6 wks ago and he told me DS would probably need a different form of folic acid but we'd do nothing until the test results were back. The appt is on Tues. I have been very tempted to do a trial of pepsid but I'm forcing myself to wait until after the appt.

 

This is getting interesting. Please report back what you find with the doc/labs and if you do wind up seeing any results.

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So, I was doing some digging about niacin and glutamate and came across this link:

 

http://mthfr.net/mthfr-mutations-help-wanted/2011/09/09/#comment-85

 

Here is the most relevant info. for this discussion:

 

 

What is supposed to happen is methylcobalamin donates its methyl group to homocysteine to convert homocysteine to methionine – a major requirement for methylation. Thus, the methyl group found on 5-MTHF is no longer trapped as it has been given to methionine.(Only thing else required for methionine to assist with methylation is the addition of ATP and magnesium.)

What is THF used for?

THF helps make purines and to process histidine.

High levels of histidine have the ability to create high levels of …histamine.

Histidine, without THF, doesn’t break down to FIGLU.

FIGLU is then further broken down into what is a problem for those with bipolar: Glutamate.

So, having said all this, you can understand what happens if you take high levels of active 5-MTHF and methylcobalamin:

You will process histidine more effectively thereby lowering your histamine levels. This is excellent.

The problem is you will suddenly begin processing histidine very effectively thereby increasing your levels of glutamate.

Glutamate is often elevated in those with bipolar.

This begs the question then – what breaks down glutamate?

The glutamate dehydrogenase enzyme breaks down glutamate.

What is required for the glutamate dehydrogenase enzyme to process glutamate?

Abilify? Lexapro?

###### no.

Niacin.

Niacin enables the glutamate dehydrogenase to process glutamate.

My opinion here is many of those with histadelia have MTHFR mutations – or at least I believe those with MTHFR mutations is what is contributing to histadelia.

Why do I think that?

Because those with histadelia have high levels of folate. I bet those with histadelia also have high levels of histidine.

High levels of folate occur because folate is unable to proceed through the MTHFR enzyme and become methylated to 5-MTHF.

If something is unable to be processed, it builds up in the body. This shows up on the lab testing as ‘elevated folate’.

What they should be testing are levels of 5-MTHF.

I bet the levels of 5-MTHF are low.

Why?

Because if folate becomes methylated and lead to 5-MTHF, the methyl group gets donated to homocysteine changing it to methionine (in the presence of B12).

If methionine is formed, then S-Adenosyl methionine can be made from methionine and ATP via the methionine adenosyltransferase enzyme.

In order for the methionine adenosyltransferase enzyme to work, ATP and magnesium are required. If magnesium is deficient, then the reaction does not move forward.

What is S-Adenosyl methionine?

SAMe

Remember what I said above:

Histidine break down requires THF which comes indirectly from folic acid via the synthesis of methionine.

That said, if folic acid is able to get ‘through’ the MTHFR defect, not only will homocysteine levels drop, but so will histidine levels.

If histidine levels drop, histamine levels should drop also.

But…histidine converts to glutamate.

But you now know that glutamate is broken down by an enzyme using niacin.

That is a pretty crucial step and nutrient for those with bipolar.

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Great explanation! So as I start giving low levels of methylfolate, I will have to dig out the dusty bottle of niacinaminde (knew I bought it for a reason, but then forgot why :wacko: ) FYI - niacin can sometimes produce a flushing sensation. Niacinamide is a form that doesn't produce the flush. I believe there's one other form as well, but can't recall what it is.

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Great explanation! So as I start giving low levels of methylfolate, I will have to dig out the dusty bottle of niacinaminde (knew I bought it for a reason, but then forgot why :wacko: ) FYI - niacin can sometimes produce a flushing sensation. Niacinamide is a form that doesn't produce the flush. I believe there's one other form as well, but can't recall what it is.

 

inositol hexanicotinate?? the bottleI bought is a combo of both. I just read this, too:

 

"Supplement the form of niacin called inositol hexanicotinate. It can cross the blood brain barrier more effectively than niacin. It has no flush, while niacin has a flush. Niacin can increase cell membrane permeability. Increasing cell permeability can improve the ability of supplements to penetrate into cells."

-from this website: http://www.restoreunity.org/natural_method_antihistamine.htm

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So, I am watching a lecture by Amy Yasko. She started discussing the viruses involved in the MMR vaccine. My son and I do not have antibodies to this vaccine, even though we've both had it multiple times. Remember how we were just discussing how some chronic lyme patients, or those that have had strep for a long time may not show antibodies any more? Maybe the body just accepts it there and stops building antibodies to it? Maybe the viruses or bacteria mimic other cells and hide there? Who knows, but it's not uncommon for this to happen. So, I have wondered in my head if maybe, since the MMR vaccine is made with live viruses...maybe these viruses are still active in us and wreaking havoc? Who knows...but I have wondered.

 

With that said, she starts talking about how Measles may affect the gut, Mumps may affect hormones the and Rubella may affect the pancreas. If this is accurate, measles and mumps are retroviruses and can insert into the DNA, and rubella isn't, BUT can behave like one IF it's together with measles and mumps. If Rubella impacts the pancreas (which they are inferring that is does) it can cause a decrease in gaba, secretin, vitamin k and gastrin.Furthermore, a decrease in vitamin k can cause an increase in HISTAMINE and a decrease in gastrin can cause an INCREASE IN STOMACH ACID.

 

I just thought that was very interesting association...

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So, I am watching a lecture by Amy Yasko. She started discussing the viruses involved in the MMR vaccine. My son and I do not have antibodies to this vaccine, even though we've both had it multiple times. Remember how we were just discussing how some chronic lyme patients, or those that have had strep for a long time may not show antibodies any more? Maybe the body just accepts it there and stops building antibodies to it? Maybe the viruses or bacteria mimic other cells and hide there? Who knows, but it's not uncommon for this to happen. So, I have wondered in my head if maybe, since the MMR vaccine is made with live viruses...maybe these viruses are still active in us and wreaking havoc? Who knows...but I have wondered.

 

With that said, she starts talking about how Measles may affect the gut, Mumps may affect hormones the and Rubella may affect the pancreas. If this is accurate, measles and mumps are retroviruses and can insert into the DNA, and rubella isn't, BUT can behave like one IF it's together with measles and mumps. If Rubella impacts the pancreas (which they are inferring that is does) it can cause a decrease in gaba, secretin, vitamin k and gastrin.Furthermore, a decrease in vitamin k can cause an increase in HISTAMINE and a decrease in gastrin can cause an INCREASE IN STOMACH ACID.

 

I just thought that was very interesting association...

 

 

yes, i've been noticing vit k keeps coming up..trying to get more in kids..there is one chewable for younger ds that list vit k on label....natures plus gold.

has xylitol, k2, d3 ans some probiotics in it.

Edited by Fixit
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