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I feel so stupid. DS has been picking at his gums (but not too bad - only at night before bed, not really complaining about it much) for over a month. He has a molar coming it, and I figured that was why he was picking at it. I thought is was a mild OCD thing. Past couple weeks he's been complaing about them hurting more and in different spots (but I thought it was because he picked at them). Took him in 2 days ago to have dentist check them out, and get a cleaning (way overdue). Dentist said its either his toothpaste -which is what he thinks it is - unbeknownst to me my husband gave him a tube of tartar control whitening toothpaste - OR a form of a virus (like a herpes virus or other virus like lichen planus).

 

Past 2 nights DS wet his bed - and he has not done that in a year since his last IVIG. Its like a lightbulb went off in my head. He's been irritable and scratching his gums because he has an infection or inflamation. Dentist said it is too uniform for the picking to be the cause. So his gums aren't irritated because he picked them, he picked them because they were irritated.

 

I'm now freaking out, because this has been going on for weeks. And for several weeks his irritability has been slowing getting worse, along with his one OCD thing. WE started him on zoloft about amonth ago - a couple weeks after this started...thinking that all his physical issues have been addressed, and most likely his remaining OCD and irritability were just what we were left with.

 

So stupid of me.

 

throw away your tartar control toothpaste everyone!

 

Here is a great site for gum/mouth issues, and probable reason our kids react when teeth fall out -

________________________________________

 

http://health.nytimes.com/health/guides/disease/periodontitis/print.html

 

THE AUTOIMMUNE AND INFLAMMATORY RESPONSE

Evidence now suggests that periodontal disease is an autoimmune disorder, in which immune factors in the body attack the person''s own cells and tissue -- in this case, those in the gum. It appears to work as follows:

 

The bacteria that form plaque and tartar release toxins that stimulate the immune system to overproduce powerful infection-fighting factors called cytokines.

Ordinarily, cytokines are important for healing. In excess, however, they can cause inflammation and severe damage. Cytokines of particular importance in periodontal disease are known as tumor necrosis factor-alpha (TNF-alpha) and interleukin-1beta, which are very active in the mouth, and are important in causing destructive inflammation.

In addition, white blood cells produced by the immune response to bacteria also release a family of enzymes called matrix metalloproteinases (MMPs), which break down connective tissue.

Studies suggest that this inflammatory response may have damaging effects not only in the gums but also in organs throughout the body, including the heart.

 

VIRAL CAUSES

Certain herpes viruses (herpes simplex and varicella-zoster virus, the cause of chickenpox and shingles) are known causes of gingivitis. A 2000 study found that other herpes viruses (cytomegalovirus and Epstein-Barr) may play a role in the onset or progression of some types of periodontal disease, including aggressive and severe chronic periodontal disease. All herpes viruses go through an active phase followed by a latent phase and possibly reactivation.

 

Some experts theorize that these viruses may cause periodontal disease in different ways, including release of tissue-destructive cytokines, overgrowth of periodontal bacteria, suppressing immune factors, and initiation of other disease processes that lead to cell death.

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I hope your son starts to feel better soon. It's so draining to try to put all the links together for our kids!

 

Question, I am having a hard time understanding why the tartar control toothpaste is bad based on the info. you posted. Can you run it by me in laymens terms? My brain is tired. :lol:

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The dental stuff is interesting. My daughter had all sorts of dental issues, including a root canal at 8.

 

As far as the tartar control toothpaste goes, years ago my brother had a nasty problem with his gums. He was in his 20s at the time. His dentist told him absolutely not to use tartar control toothpaste because it sometimes produced a reaction in some people. He stopped using it and his gums went back to normal.

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My daughter recently battled epstein-barr. For months, we tried a variety of anti-virals and treatments. After 4 months, the EBV still had the upper hand. We then tried l-lysine, which is an essential amino acid. You get it from legumes and healthy food that DD doesn't eat. Within days, she was off the couch and bouncing around. We used it for several weeks and she was able to return to school. So it may be something you want to google. Do note that l-lysine can reduce seratonin and cause anxiety. We did see this over time and used tryptophan for the anxiety. After such a long illness, I wasn't ready to drop the lysine until I felt it had put the ebv into remission. Might be something worth googling. You can get l-lysine at the health food store and maybe even CVS.

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THANK YOU LLM and fightingmom. I tasted the antiseptic prescribed last night - and don't think DS is going to tolerate it (it also made my mouth tingle alot, so I'm wonding how this is calming to the gums...when it has open wounds it seems like it will sting) . I will be looking into l-lysine today. Although DS just started extreme low does of zoloft to bring up seratonin (why can't anything be clear cut?)

 

Also wondering if anyone has done any topical steroids for mouth / gum stuff. I'm starting with the l-lysine, and want to avoid steroids, but seems like a topical applied for a few days might be acceptable solution if the l-lysine does not work for him.

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Look into Biotene products. I love their mouthwash very gentle, no sting:

 

http://www.biotene.com/

 

"Unique oral rinse specially formulated to loosen BioFilm

 

BioFilm is the thin film of bacteria, also known as plaque, which builds up in the mouth and attacks the teeth and gums. Biotene® PBF Oral Rinse helps loosen BioFilm for a cleaner, fresher mouth."

Edited by fightingmom
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Look into Biotene products. I love their mouthwash very gentle, no sting:

 

http://www.biotene.com/

 

"Unique oral rinse specially formulated to loosen BioFilm

 

BioFilm is the thin film of bacteria, also known as plaque, which builds up in the mouth and attacks the teeth and gums. Biotene® PBF Oral Rinse helps loosen BioFilm for a cleaner, fresher mouth."

 

I've used the regular biotene mouth rinse, I'll have to look into the PBF version. The regular version has xylitol.

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WE saw a gum specialist who thinks it the herpes virus. I've taken it upon myself to take him off antibitoics for a couple days, and he is doing 2x daily saline rinse and he has Xylitol mints (100% Xylitol) and a spray (its a nasal spray) and he is putting some lydocaine for the mouth the gum speciialst gave him for a couple spots that are very bothersome.

 

Had to laugh when the gum specialist asked him if he every noticed this before when he was under stress. Even thought things have been trending up - a PANS home is always under some sort of stress...

 

I also got some powdered probiotics that have much higher dose of active cultures - I mix into a couple tablespoons of yogurt - its tasteless and disolves completely. And is sits in his mouth for a while - this was suggested by health food person, that has 2 family members who have been on IV antibiotics, that had alot of issues with their mouths. Even though it isn't thrush in his mouth, I somehow feel that it may be the high does antibiotics are catching up with him. I just feel like a little break is in order - gonna call his LLMD on it today.

 

I bout the L-lysine, but the caps are too large for him to take.

 

At the moments - since he has just had his teeth cleaned and Doc said his teeth had almost no plaque (even though not been to dentists in probably 2 years) I'm going to stay away from anything loosening biofilm. His gums are irritated an bleeding, and getting bacterial from his mouth (biofilm) in the blood stream may be what's setting him off.

 

I remember seeing some reports about a year ago from Dianna P about a number of pandas kids with severe teeth issues. After reading more about the cykotine and inflamatory/immune reaction that results from mouth and gum trauma (how its different form other areas of the body, and possible link to heart problems- similar to the heart issues that those with Syndenhams' Chorea have), I'm wondering if those kids tirggers are there mouth problems. Not that some pandas kids have higher incident of teeth issues. Kids with really bad teeth or gum issues are more likely to get pandas. So its another trigger - like lyme, myco P.

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Sounds like you have a plan. But if you eventually decide you want to try the l-lysine, you can buy smaller gel capsules and maybe transfer the contents into smaller capsules - i think you want "0" size. Also notice there are some inexpensive pill filler contraptions you can buy if the task seems daunting.

 

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_c_1_7?url=search-alias%3Dhpc&field-keywords=empty+capsules&sprefix=empty+c%2Caps%2C161

 

You might also be able to get empty capsules at a local health food store.

 

I hope everything starts to heal!

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