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How to disengage when they are raging


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This may be slightly off-topic, but I thought I'd ask advice from you all.

 

How do you get them to "let you" disengage from a rage? When my daughter starts an "episode" I try with all my might to remain calm, disengage, walk away, etc. The problem is she FOLLOWS me, pulls at me, pulls at my clothes and will NOT let me get away.

 

My husband travels for work, so during the week, I am alone quite a bit. I also have a 5 year old son who is diabetic, so isolating myself in my room isn't really an option if he's off playing somewhere. She refuses to go to her room (separation anxiety) unless we get so desperate that we carry her in there and lock the door.

 

I have read the Explosive Child, but I can't seem to find what to do when they just won't LET you disengage. I suppose I need to work on stopping the explosion before it starts, but I'm still working on that part. :)

 

 

Thanks!

Stephanie

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Yes, I have the same issue. My daughter will not let go of me and sometimes will hit me or squeeze me but still chases me around the house. I will give you our experience and the advice of our therapist from the CBT program. First we reversed the locks on her bedroom door. Like you said, she won't stay in her room without being made too. The rules are that while she is raging, she can be in the room with me only as long as she isn't hitting or hurting me or as long as she isn't throwing things. If she does any of that then she immediately must go to her room. We have to lock her in there and then just wait out the fury. We don't give her any attention or verbal reinforcement. She knows she can come out when she is calm. I have had to take all the wire cloths hangers out of her closet because she learned to pick the lock with them. Once she gets quiet and calm, I immediately go to her door and tell her how nice it sounds that she is quiet and ask if she is ready to come out. This is a very hard tactic, because while she is raging in her room she bangs on the door and throws herself on the door and it sounds like she is about to rip the door off the hinges. It is mostly hard for my husband. The most important thing is to ignore all of that and only allow her access to you when she is calm. After a few times it really begins to work and the violence decreases. Consistency is key.

 

I am so sorry you are experiencing this. For us, rages have been the hardest thing to deal with. This technique has helped us though. Let me know how things work out. Best of luck.

 

Dedee

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Try to make a plan with your daughter when she is calm. Reassure her that you know this is something that happens to her that she doesn't like, but you need to make sure everyone (including her) is safe when it happens. She likely has no idea what to do and when you try to disengage, she may feel like you are punishing her for naughty behavior- which escalates things. Having a plan in advance and practicing when she is not in a rage will make her feel more in control and safer, just like fire drills make kids feel safer. You can probably find some good ideas on the Children of Rage link that I posted on the other thread.

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Yes, I have the same issue. My daughter will not let go of me and sometimes will hit me or squeeze me but still chases me around the house. I will give you our experience and the advice of our therapist from the CBT program. First we reversed the locks on her bedroom door. Like you said, she won't stay in her room without being made too. The rules are that while she is raging, she can be in the room with me only as long as she isn't hitting or hurting me or as long as she isn't throwing things. If she does any of that then she immediately must go to her room. We have to lock her in there and then just wait out the fury. We don't give her any attention or verbal reinforcement. She knows she can come out when she is calm. I have had to take all the wire cloths hangers out of her closet because she learned to pick the lock with them. Once she gets quiet and calm, I immediately go to her door and tell her how nice it sounds that she is quiet and ask if she is ready to come out. This is a very hard tactic, because while she is raging in her room she bangs on the door and throws herself on the door and it sounds like she is about to rip the door off the hinges. It is mostly hard for my husband. The most important thing is to ignore all of that and only allow her access to you when she is calm. After a few times it really begins to work and the violence decreases. Consistency is key.

 

I am so sorry you are experiencing this. For us, rages have been the hardest thing to deal with. This technique has helped us though. Let me know how things work out. Best of luck.

 

Dedee

 

Yes!! This is exactly what she does. We've actually had the locks switched on her room for a few years. She is SO good at convincing me that she will calm down when I try to take her to her room, I think I am absolutely not being consistent. Thank you for that advice!

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We also have this problem. You describe exactly what happens, she rages and hunts me down if I try to walk away. I have recently been told to try and get her to do something work/problem solving/homework oriented. Apparently it disengages the emotional brain and engages the part that is used for cognition. I was told to tell her in a calm moment, that the next time she starts to freak out, I am going to have her do a word find (I bought a book of them), so she knows to expect it when it happens. If I can get her to start doing it, she should naturally come out of the anger. I plan to try it out as soon as I need to, so I will report back about it working.

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I don't have much time today, but I could write you a book on the things we have done that haven't worked. But the key for my daughter seems to be getting to be around me. So that is why the therapist recommends removing me from the scene as soon as it becomes violent. The only way to do that is to put her in her room. She can stay with me if she is only crying, but as soon as she hits or throws, then she must immediately go to her room. As you said, when we start to carry her to her room, she starts to beg and plead that she will stop, etc.. Ignore that. Take her anyway, with only one statement....when you calm down you can come back out. I have to physically carry my daughter to her room and pull her off the door knob sometimes to get out. However, now that my husband has been through the CBT program and he is on board with the same plan, things are going much better. She calms down much quicker in her room and the violence has decreased. I know it isn't feasible for everyone, but the most helpful thing for us has been the CBT therapy. The people at Rothman are so good with these kids and are right on target with how to deal with all situations. They understand what drives the behavior (OCD), and so their recommendations are more applicable to the situation. Plus you get an individualized plan based on your childs issues, behaviors, and responses. We have three PANS kids, but only one that rages. The raging is so disruptive to the entire family and hinders progress for everyone. For me, it's worth anything to get that under control. We are still a work in progress, but at least we are making progress.

 

Dedee

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Yes, I have the same issue. My daughter will not let go of me and sometimes will hit me or squeeze me but still chases me around the house. I will give you our experience and the advice of our therapist from the CBT program. First we reversed the locks on her bedroom door. Like you said, she won't stay in her room without being made too. The rules are that while she is raging, she can be in the room with me only as long as she isn't hitting or hurting me or as long as she isn't throwing things. If she does any of that then she immediately must go to her room. We have to lock her in there and then just wait out the fury. We don't give her any attention or verbal reinforcement. She knows she can come out when she is calm. I have had to take all the wire cloths hangers out of her closet because she learned to pick the lock with them. Once she gets quiet and calm, I immediately go to her door and tell her how nice it sounds that she is quiet and ask if she is ready to come out. This is a very hard tactic, because while she is raging in her room she bangs on the door and throws herself on the door and it sounds like she is about to rip the door off the hinges. It is mostly hard for my husband. The most important thing is to ignore all of that and only allow her access to you when she is calm. After a few times it really begins to work and the violence decreases. Consistency is key.

 

I am so sorry you are experiencing this. For us, rages have been the hardest thing to deal with. This technique has helped us though. Let me know how things work out. Best of luck.

 

Dedee

 

Yes!! This is exactly what she does. We've actually had the locks switched on her room for a few years. She is SO good at convincing me that she will calm down when I try to take her to her room, I think I am absolutely not being consistent. Thank you for that advice!

 

Wow. We had even reversed the lock on the door too. But he learned to pick it very easily, or just push so hard on the lever he broke all the bedroom door locks in our house. We have also had two doors come off at least one hinge each.

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I just want to second what Dedee has said.

 

My daughter was having "tantrums" (less severe than a rage) multiple times daily due to dealing with strep and pandas. It was making life for the family miserable. We all ended up walking on eggshells and trying to avoid the tantrum. I was stressed to the max, and it made it unfair to her sister.

 

We went to usf. Our psych felt before we could successfully address the ocd, we had to get the behavior under control. (usually the tantrum was related to ocd in some way). We were taught a "time out" program- much like a parent uses on a 2 yr old. However, the key to this was that once they were given a time out, there was nothing until they did it. No food, no tv, no toys, and most importantly- no one can talk to them. For my dd this seemed to be the key. She could not stand that I would not speak to her, hug her, etc- until she completed the time out. It worked every time. Then the time in the time out worked as a good calming moment (for all).

 

For the raging, it seems best to do the "time out" in the bedroom, in order to keep everyone safe. However it sounds like the fundamental is the same, and the key is to remove any kind of interaction (positive or negative) with the child. The psych did this with no emotion, and it works best for me when I do the same.

 

Although it seemed to me that this would NOT work, it worked like a charm. Within a week, the tantrums were almost non existent. Now we almost never use time outs- however we do use them on both kids, ages 8 and 11, and they work beautifully. So- the folks at USF are onto something....

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I just want to second what Dedee has said.

 

My daughter was having "tantrums" (less severe than a rage) multiple times daily due to dealing with strep and pandas. It was making life for the family miserable. We all ended up walking on eggshells and trying to avoid the tantrum. I was stressed to the max, and it made it unfair to her sister.

 

We went to usf. Our psych felt before we could successfully address the ocd, we had to get the behavior under control. (usually the tantrum was related to ocd in some way). We were taught a "time out" program- much like a parent uses on a 2 yr old. However, the key to this was that once they were given a time out, there was nothing until they did it. No food, no tv, no toys, and most importantly- no one can talk to them. For my dd this seemed to be the key. She could not stand that I would not speak to her, hug her, etc- until she completed the time out. It worked every time. Then the time in the time out worked as a good calming moment (for all).

 

For the raging, it seems best to do the "time out" in the bedroom, in order to keep everyone safe. However it sounds like the fundamental is the same, and the key is to remove any kind of interaction (positive or negative) with the child. The psych did this with no emotion, and it works best for me when I do the same.

 

Although it seemed to me that this would NOT work, it worked like a charm. Within a week, the tantrums were almost non existent. Now we almost never use time outs- however we do use them on both kids, ages 8 and 11, and they work beautifully. So- the folks at USF are onto something....

 

Thanks for that info! So we are having a similar thing - her anxiety builds and builds and leads to the rage. When you do a "time out" with the 8 year old, do you do it in a specific place, or is it always their room? I am thinking I may need to do this because she can read my face like a book, even when I am silent. In fact, me being calm just enrages her more (she actually told me this during a calm moment!)

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Hi Sdrew...

 

These are not my ideas, but techniques learned from extremely qualified therapist at USF.

 

What we learned was to basically STOP accommodating, and raise the bar back up to expect "age appropriate" behavior.

 

We had to work on "compliance". In other words, if I tell my child to do something, they need to do it. That simple.

 

Of course, at the time we were coming out of a pandas flare, so we were walking on eggshells and accommodating this kid all over the place. She was tantrumming, and her ocd was pretty much running the house.

 

We (this is all with the therapist- which was REALLY helpful) sat her down and told her that things were going to change. Short and sweet, we would now expect her to behave appropriately for an 8 year old. We listed some specific examples. Any type of disrespect toward her parents would not be permitted.

 

If she was not compliant, she would get ONE simple warning. If she still was not compliant, she would receive a "time out". The time out is four minutes. It is in a place within earshot, and close to within view of our kitchen/ family room- but from the time out spot, she cannot see the TV and is somewhat isolated. No toys or anything are allowed in time out, but they do not have to be silent. Yelling or meanness, however is not allowed, and their time does not start until they are relatively quiet-ish.

 

They may refuse to go to time out. THat is okay. Until they go to time out they get nothing. No food, no tv, no computer, and NO ONE speaks to them.

 

If their infraction requires a punishment, that will be told to them once they have completed the time out. This is great because it gives the parent time to calm down and think. Honestly, we did not use punishments, and it still worked. Our infractions were not that bad,

 

For us, within a week, we rarely needed to do time outs. The first day or two is HARD, and it is imperative that the parents stay united, calm, somewhat emotionally detached, and consistent.

 

This technique has brought lots of calm to our house. It is almost a script that helps us as parents to stay calm, and matter of fact. And it is consistent for the kids. They HATE doing the time out, but they do it, and while doing it they have time to CALM down.

 

I hope this helps !

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For those with big kids who rage, (like DS 16 at 6'), I usually go in my bedroom and lock the door. If I can't get there, I curl up in a ball and refuse to respond. It's not that I am afraid he will seriously injure me, however wrestling or trying to push him out of the way is reinforcement for him. A non responsive person is actually much less reinforcing. Makes him unhappy though.

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Dcmom - thank you for the further explanation! That helps me a TON. We are seeing a child/family therapist on Saturday hoping for some help along these lines, so this great to read. We definitely need a "script" for these issues.

 

Thanks!

Stephanie

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