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Vitamin D making things worse?


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DS10's vitamin D levels keep dropping and it was suggested to put him on supplements (which I've done before). He was at a pretty good place, tic-wise, and they shot up with the supplementation. I've seen this before, as well.

 

Anyone else? Any thoughts as to why? I just ordered some D2, to try instead of the D3. Anyone have experience with that?

 

Thanks!

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I don't have any experience with D2, only D3. I know D is synergistic with other minerals/vitamins...(magnesium, zinc, B6, C? others?) could it be that these are also low and supplementing only one of them is causing an imbalance? Could it be that D is strengthening the immune system and allowing it to fight something? I don't have any answers. But it does seem like a clue worth pursuing. Can you test for other deficiencies?

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I don't know either, but I agree with Laura's hypothesis. We had a similar problem with D3 a few years ago. DD's D levels were catastrophically low at 7 but every time we put her on D3 she seemed to get worse. Of course, this was before we started treatment for Lyme/Bartonella, MycoP, KPU, and methylation issues. We had no choice but to give her 50,000 IUs of D3 for a few months and we pushed through it. Since then we lowered her D3 dose to 10,000 IUs and added high doses of C, as well as B1, B3, B6, 5-MTHF, magnesium, zinc picconlinate, etc. and we no longer have the same problems with D3. Just make sure the pills are dye free -- dyes can exacerbate the symptoms for so many kids.

Edited by NancyD
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A couple of ideas I found at Perfecthealthdiet.com :

 

http://perfecthealthdiet.com/?cat=35

 

" Background on Vitamin D

For most people, health is optimized by obtaining about 4,000 IU/day of vitamin D3 from sun or supplements, leading to a serum 25-hydroxyvitamin D (25OHD) level of 35 to 50 ng/ml in people of Eurasian ancestry or 30 to 40 ng/ml in people of African ancestry.

 

Not long ago I did a post on the characteristic pattern of vitamin D dysregulation in chronic infections. In chronic infectious diseases, low 25OHD is often found with elevated levels of the more active metabolite 1,25-dihydroxyvitamin D (1,25D). Possible mechanisms for this include:

 

Infections making cell membranes leaky to 1,25D, causing it to spill out of cells into the blood, thus reducing activation of the nuclear membrane’s vitamin D receptor (VDR).

Infections obstructing or downregulating the VDR, causing the body to attempt to upregulate VDR activation by increasing conversion of 25OHD to 1,25D. Both forms of vitamin D are active ligands for the VDR, but 1,25D is far more active, so converting 25OHD to 1,25D means more activation of the VDR.

Inventing ways to block the VDR or move 1,25D out of the cell would be fitness-enhancing mutations for bacteria or viruses, since activation of the VDR triggers production of antimicrobial peptides that are central to intracellular immunity. Since bacteria evolve a lot faster than humans, it should be no surprise that pathogens have been able to evolve these capabilities."

 

My DD10 showed this inversion. You need to test for both metabolites.

 

This also:

 

 

" But Some Diseases Have The Opposite Pattern

But some people have diseases that produce the opposite pattern. In their diseases, “normal” 25OHD levels are associated with impaired health, while unnaturally high 25OHD levels normalize health.

 

Charles is a great example:

 

He is taking super-normal amounts of vitamin D: Sunshine alone will generally not produce sustained creation of more than 4,000 IU/day. (Yes, I know that 10,000 IU can be produced in half an hour in D-deprived individuals, but if that person went out in the sun every day vitamin D production would soon decrease.) So 15,000 IU/day is roughly four times the normal dose.

He is achieving super-normal levels of 25OHD that would probably be toxic for most adults. The maximum 25OHD levels achievable through sunshine vary among persons, but are generally between 48 and 80 ng/ml. [1] Moreover, human cells turn on the gene CYP24A1, which codes for the main vitamin D-degrading enzyme, at 25(OH)D levels below 100 ng/ml. [2] It seems that evolution has designed us to keep 25OHD levels around 50 ng/ml or lower – certainly below 80 ng/ml. So Charles’s 92 ng/ml is well above the levels achievable by natural methods.

Since both 25(OH)D production and degradation have been strongly selected for by evolution, we can be confident that in healthy people of reproductive age it’s not a good idea to supplement at 15,000 IU/day or drive serum 25(OH)D to 92 ng/ml.

 

And what limited clinical evidence we have supports that conclusion. Those tropical lifeguards who get their serum 25(OH)D levels up to 80 ng/ml? They have three times the rate of heart attacks of those with normal 25(OH)D. [3]

 

Aside: Their high rate of heart disease may be due to vitamin K2 deficiency. Charles, please be sure to supplement vitamin K2, preferably a mix of MK-4 and MK-7 forms, along with your D.

 

Yet whereas healthy younger people would experience toxicity at Charles’s vitamin D dose or 25OHD level, Charles’s health improves."

 

We are not supplementing huge doses of D3, but waiting to see if the metabolite inversion corrects itself as she recovers. Please don't forget to supplement with MK4/MK7 if you are using large doses of D3.

 

Journal reference can be found at the end of the article.

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Vitamin D can definitely help the lyme bugs out. This is one particular supplement where energy testing whether it should be taken is more important than the others. I really think energy testing is extremely helpful for everything, but, for vitamin D, goodness, definitely it could be helping (and causing herx as suggested) or it could be hurting.

 

I have used vitamin D2 in the past, before I could find a vegan D3. I never got too much of a response from it, consistent with what "they" say about it.

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Ahhh, I didn't think of it being a herx-like response but yes, it did resemble that. Makes sense to me too.

 

Per our LLMD, supplement9ng with D can cause a herxhiemer "like" response. Never spoke to him about the actual mechanics behind response but the theories posted make sense to me.

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Son was just put on D3 complete (D3, A, & K2 vitamins) and he is possibly done battling lyme/babesia and currently working on viruses/Mico. It is listed under 'nutrient and immune support' on Dr. sheet. Also, just read that K2 is good for brain inflammation.

Edited by JuliaFaith
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Son was just put on D3 complete (D3, A, & K2 vitamins) and he is possibly done battling lyme/babesia and currently working on viruses/Mico. It is listed under 'nutrient and immune support' on Dr. sheet. Also, just read that K2 is good for brain inflammation.

 

How much D3, A and K2 are you supplementing? Did you do testing and results came back low, or is supplementation for support only?

Thanks

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